Awwwww, I use blockquote to encapsulate speech :<

Any way around this or will I have to change my practices?

This is a shame, blockquotes can be a really good way of organizing text. 

Also, I do think that sometimes people do spend time on creating things like menus, and they genuinely do add to the rp they're creating. It's the people who then go on to just copy that menu out that cause the problem of spamming/gaming, imo.

Is there any chance that we could just limit this change to the business districts though? That seems to be where the issue is and it'd be a shame to lose that formatting option from the streets.

Limited to the business district, I have no problem with this whatsoever. I was a little shocked when recently exploring every thread in the business district to see how widespread this actually was.

Fortunately the Peach Pit is fine though guys, don't worry.

The recent thread where someone found the journals of their forefather (and went on a self indulgent and utterly narcissistic trip down DeadlySin lane) showed a great example of how it can be used for original, unique and appropriate content. Having said that, there are numerous other ways that the content could have been formatted that would have provided a similar (almost identical) result. 

A handful of us will never like that we're limiting formatting options for genuine great posts to pander to the lazy and those trying to game the system. However, if this is the most sensible way to implement it from a logistics point of view (it is), it's hard to argue against it. There is a style available, message box, that looks extremely similar in appearance to blockquotes (it's last in the list of styles)... it's slightly different in shade and doesn't span the full page width but it would provide a suitable alternative until a better option is found by individuals looking for pwetty formatting. 

As Setanta said - rp'd journal entries, sometimes announcements, that type of thing. It's nice to have blockquoting as an option and although there are similar options, it seems counter productive to the life of the streets to make an easy option not count and one that's difficult to make look right (as it's not full page sized) be the one that does count. 

Have there been instances where people have been unfairly punished for business district abuse? I thought the clamping down going on was fine personally. 

Could we not just have a style added that is called "citation", maybe?

Why would people quote others in a streets forum anyway? I think instead of limiting the quote feature, enforcing more realistic role-play would be the way to go. How can someone quote someone else in a role-play, when it's impossible without their character themselves speaking it in presence tense, or writing it in narrative form.

Just putting what someone posted above them in a quote doesn't make sense in a role-play environment. Using the quote feature for letters, journals, own speaking, and in the BD for menus etc. seems like proper use of the feature. Penalizing the majority of people instead of taking the time to teach the minority seems a little harsh.

Maybe enforce what it should actually be used for, instead of limiting it's effectiveness as it's already being used correctly and creatively by the majority.

In the OOC forum is the only place someone should be using the feature to quote what someone above has posted.

As an example and no offence to the house of Batiatus, yet the quoted text in this thread shouldn't actually be in the thread at all as it's deemed out of character.

http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/507301#post-9022101

The same parts that are in the quotes could've actually been narrated or written in, or in the use of the term itself, role-played in. They are in no way in character, unless I'm missing something here which I am happy to be schooled on.

Take away the quote box and leave that text in there, and it's still OOC.

The spam comes from people posting in the streets forums shit that isn't role-played. To take away points from the quotes wont effect me personally as I don't use them in a way other than form notes and in the BD, yet it seems it wont actually do anything to fix the problem.

More education on what is role-play and what isn't, and continually schooling is what is needed imo.

I say there are better ways to do this, which will take more time and effort, yet the general user base could do instead of admin.

Role-play is something creative and beyond the game mechanics and should be dealt with in a similar fashion, again, imo.

I tried using all the alternatives to block-quotes for speech and I will be brutally honest; They all look terrible.

Can it not just be left as it is and if a post is reported for having too much "copy/paste plagiarism" it is simply wacked, maybe with a couple hours of admin jail?  

Aside from that, this is something that should be left in the hands of the leaders IMO, once they see one of theirs has been jailed for plagiarism, maybe they will make more of an effort to enforce what is correct and what is not correct protocol in the forums?

Shouldn't the leaders already be schooling their peoples on how to/how not to post in the business districts and streets?

How many HQ's actually have threads up regarding role-play? Your idea is exactly what is needed Kelly_Kapowski and it should already be something a CL is teaching amongst the ranks, and not just how to use a gun properly and submit witness reports.

The state of the streets reflects the state of the leadership regarding role-play on this site and on the forums. Wars are ever present and they are great to be a part of, and many train for them. Yet how often do wars happen compared to people posting in the streets?

If I sound annoyed here it's because I am. It's less an admin role and more a MR collective to have the streets less spammed, less OOC and shine like a mother fucker.

Let's be proactive about it, start where we currently are and not wait for admin to jail people and then have CL's school their members. How about we start with you Kelly? :) (not privy to how you run your ship btw, hopefully you do have something in place regarding RP and can make me eat my words, which I will happily do)

Scriba, your interpretation of how to/how not to post in the forums significantly differs to a lot of people's, including my own.

Personally, I would take posts like Batiatus', which cleverly manipulate the mechanics of the game into a form where it becomes an actual event that could easily have transpired, over detailed descriptions of posture every day of the week. I think that type of ingenuity should be credited, not highlighted as someone traversing from the line of acceptability. This is something people do every day and nobody, that I can recall at least, has ever made into an actual event. Bravo, I say. Please continue to use your powers of social engineering for good.

I feel like this because one of the strengths of this game has always been the diversity of the streets and as a result, not everything you see there is actually a physical appearance by the person in question. We've seen posters made, newspapers produced and journals read out; all manner of intelligent original material, which provide entertainment and wouldn't conform to your definition of "in character" and yet I find them one of, if not the most important pull the game has. I hope we continue to operate under a policy of 'acting how your character would act' rather than 'conform to forum-based role-playing rules'.

Given this, I doubt it is any surprise that I do not feel the "state of the streets" is a cause for concern and if that is reflective of my leadership on role-play then I'm comfortable with that. Recently I've taken in a worthwhile debate by Katra, an amusing appearance from Reverend_Al_Sharpton and Batiatus' own interpretation of killing an MIA. I can't remember the last time I found the content of the streets interesting enough to merit that level of attention from me, so I'm all a happy old forehead and think things are certainly on the up.

As to the matter at hand, blockquoting is an aesthetically pleasing tool. I feel it would be a shame to remove it when (to my knowledge) the problem is being handled well already. 

Barry I respect you and your opinion, yet look again at the thread mentioned regarding Batiatus' post with quotation marks and tell me how that what is in quotation marks is in character. I appreciate people 'acting how their character would act' yet that is showing things that happen regarding the clicking of buttons and is in no way an act of any type of character.

It isn't a journal. It isn't a newspaper. And it isn't a poster. It's copying and pasting game mechanics in quotation marks, which this thread is in reference to. Take away the quotation marks, and where is the role-play? Let me know where you see it.

It is otherwise spam, no? Which is detailed for you to reference here: http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/67661#92493451

You can also refer to these threads regarding 'the forums definition of role-play' in the help section in which I am speaking about, not 'my idea of role-play': http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/3908 and http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/10433

And regarding the current status of the streets I think it's the best since I've been here, yet I am referring to instead of admin needing to crack down on spam by limiting the use of quotations, instead CL's should be schooling their own members on how to properly post in the streets. I have worked with yourself, Curtis, and Achilles and no-one was actively teaching how to post properly and not spam.

Not belittling your guys leadership at all as I have a lot of respect for each and everyone of you, just making a point that if spam is to be reduced it has to come from the userbase and not admin. Just as teaching how to use a gun is taught by the userbase and not admin.

Scriba, that first thread you linked talks about writing (Open RP), (Closed RP), (Story), and the replies give advice on how to stay within the time period and 'in character' - not really what you're talking about. Also, it states in the first part "Now, these are just guidelines for posting, and they are flexible". The next one says "Contrary to popular belief, there are no rules for role-playing, but there are generally accepted guidelines", and the one after that which you linked is even titled "A Reminder About Posting Guidelines" - emphasis on guidelines there, no mention of 'rules'. There isn't a definition other than 'stick to the time period' and 'you're in the mafia', so I'm not sure why you think that there is a set definition that everyone has to stick to.

I'd also like to point out, this isn't about "admin needing to crack down on spam by limiting the use of quotations", it's about allowing people to copy and paste stuff without getting the gains they would've gotten from it before. Personally I like using blockquotes for stuff other than quoting people, so I'm not a big fan of that being taken away if we want to be rewarded but I'm not sure how else it could be done other than bringing in an entirely new button for some formatting that makes it look like a blockquote but doesn't give you the points (maybe with a slightly different coloured outline so it's easier to spot). I don't have the answers unfortunately, but I'd like to think there's another option to just changing one of our formatting options to not give people any gains!

DeadlySin where did I say anything about rules? They are in the Help section of the site which are 'generally accepted guidelines'. I didn't write them, I'm just referencing what the site has pointed to for all to see and read regarding role-play and posting standards, as Barry felt I was referencing my own set standards and guidelines, which are in fact what the site has posted, in the Help section none the less.

There is a set 'general definition' for all text based role-play sites you go to which all have these same ideas of what role-play is and what it isn't. It's the same shit wherever you go, pretty much the same 'guidelines' as to what is posted here as being IC and OOC.

It's important to note this because:

If you are doing any text that you did not create yourself or fear it may give points you do not deserve, put it in a block quote.

Based on the 'general guidelines' this stuff should be posted in the OOC forum and wouldn't have a place in a role-play post in general. But, seeing as there aren't any 'rules' about posting around here this really doesn't matter. In fact, based on the help section topics only being 'guidelines' anything can be posted in the streets so all posts are worthy of receiving XP points.

So, this whole 'BLOCKQUOTES - A solution to possible spam' is pointless, as there really is nothing considered spam, as there are no set 'rules' as to what is, and what isn't role-play which means spam doesn't really exist in the sense it's a post that isn't role-played (which is what that spam thread points to by the way, read the whole thing and not just the first post, as more admin members relate that spam is the posting of non role-play based posts)

I'll leave it to you guys to judge, as my 'rules' on posting are just the sites 'guidelines' and have no merit.

"You can also refer to these threads regarding 'the forums definition of role-play' in the help section in which I am speaking about" - you're clearly implying there that they are the rules by calling them definitions, to which I was pointing out every thread you pasted are in fact just guidelines, not hard written rules.

Obviously not anything can be posted in the streets - feel free to familiarise yourself with the site rules if you think that is the case, because I assure you it is not.

The site rules are left relatively vague for one reason, so that we the users can make and maintain the rules in an in character manner in the majority of cases. Once you keep a post in character (which Batiatius has done in the case being discussed here) to a mobster of the 1930's, everything else is up for grabs. In the thread in question, he has quoted game mechanics... which have been role-played out to be suitable for the era and the environment we find ourselves in (some of the people chatting in this thread even helped write those RP'd mechanics as well as assisting in writing the guidelines being quoted). 

While the way Batty chose to lay out his thread might not be to an individuals personal taste (not really relevant, but personally I loved it), it certainly was in character and in keeping within both the rules and the guidelines of the site. The fantastic thing about RPing is that your imagination is really the only limit.... so imposing arbitrary rules and blocks in places they're not required is neither productive nor beneficial. 

Having said that.... this is all a big tangent and of little relevance to the point that should be under discussion here.

The general reaction here seems to be 100% negative. Is there anyone that feels it is/would be a positive move? Is there ever a circumstance where quoting a huge block of non original text is ever in the best interests? 

Personally, I dislike seeing mass copy pasted content on any forum (even when outside MR and not being done to game a system). If you're quoting a specific line for rebuttal, perfect, if you're quoting an entire post to say "I'll have a coffee" or "I agree".... then you need a good firm kick up the ass and need to learn how to add some value to a conversation.