| May 19 - 11:41:17 |
|
| Post Reply | Post new topic | Page: 1 2 [ > - >>> ] |
| An Idea that has floated around my mind | Started by: Dave_Klein on May 03, '09 19:52 |
|
Okay so war has come in some shape or form to every family that resides in the 8 cities at this time. We have all experienced the lose that comes with bloodshed. One thing that has me thinking though is this. Through generations wars have happened. Family heads have fallen, in the past some from the fallen families have set themselves up in cities that have no godfathers. The have done so to save lives, they have put their own life on the line to protect others instead of merging into another family. Is this wrong? If they setup in a city that has no godfather or another crew, what right do the current godfathers have to stick their noses in? They all come out here and preach that their responsibility is the city they control, they stay out of affairs that others get invovled in because they don't wish to be tainted. So then why do they concern themselves with other cities. Yes they shoudl consider if there is a threat to them, but if those who setup make it clear to them that there is no threat and they only wish to ensure the safety of others, why shouldn't the godfathers allow this. In fact what right do the godfathers have to disallow this! They have control over THEIR cities, not the entire 8. Hypno invovled himself in a war which had nothing to do with him, Thomas has come out here and said that he involved himself in a war that had nothing to do with them. How long will it take for the godfathers to be able to see further than their own bloodlust. What is the rank of godfather that boring that they have to invovle themself in business that is not theirs? I really wish that this place could be what it should be, where those who are godfathers take responsibility for that which is theirs and deal with things in a professional business matter instead of letting their whims carry their judgements. |
|
| Report Post | Tip |
|
"What right do the current godfathers have to stick their noses in?" I stopped right there. What do "rights" have to do with anything? What "rights" do any mobsters have, beyond those given to them by their Boss? Clear that hurdle, and we can discuss further. |
|
| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 03, '09 20:01 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
Steps up to speak for a moment
Well sir it depends on how you look at it. I will address the issue of involving themselves into something in a "free" city. It is a threat to their cities and families if some one is allowed to set up unchecked and unauthorized. This person has no loyalty to any existing GF/GM, thus is a "loose cannon" of sorts. See if they Auth someone then that means at least one of the GF/GM's has some faith and trust in that person. They have a repore(s/p) and more so some semblence of control over that person. That gives a level of comfort to all those around them. Looks around and makes the sign of the cross at the blood soaked streets |
|
| Reply by: Money-B at May 03, '09 20:04 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
Okays rights was the wrong term. What power do the godfathers have in cities that aren't their own? What influence do godfathers have in cities that they do not control? When they walk on turf that is not in their control, do they have any authority? Yes they are to be respected for what they ahve achieved, but they have no say outside their own borders. |
|
| Reply by: Dave_Klein at May 03, '09 20:04 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
As I said Money-B, if those that set up make it clear that they are not going to be a threat and will accept the terms of business then why should the Godfathers be concerned with something that has no effect on them? Are there so fearful that someone may rise up out of the ashes(so to speak) to attack them? Surely the Godfathers are not so lacking in the information department, they should know who is potentially going to turn into a threat and who will not. |
|
| Reply by: Dave_Klein at May 03, '09 20:09 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
I guess if they are doing it, then they must have the power to do so. There are no limits to what a person who exercises power can do, other than the inherent limits of their power. If a Boss is powerful enough to influence events outside of his or her city, then why wouldn't they exercise that power if it benefited them? I think the underlying concept that you are basing your view upon is that there is a set procedure that each Boss must follow, or that they should follow. That's just not the way life works. We are free to do whatever we can get away with. "Authority" is basically power. They have authority on outside turf if they have the power to enforce their wishes. If nobody can stand in their way, that's all the authority they need. |
|
| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 03, '09 20:11 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
My underlying concern is fear, there is a fear of the godfathers that if they are not obeyed then death will come. Okay so that fear is warrented, the majority of godfathers that have walked our streets have seemed untouchable, surrounded by bodyguards and able to call on a vaste majority of soldiers to fight for them. But then we have seen Hypno, I mean no disrespect to him, but if he had have stayed out of business that was not his he would be alive today and still controlling Las Vegas. An entire city has been destroyed because a godfather decided to aid a friend from another city. He caused the death of his family and the other crews who worked for him by aiding a man who did not even have the backing of his own godfather. What's to stop this happening to Detroit, the reminants of New York, Philly and Chicago? Something that troubles me the most is that the Godfathers have a greater responsibilty than anyone else. They go to war, their entire city goes to war, if a crewleader decides it would be safer to stay out, then they are directly disrespecting their godfather. |
|
| Reply by: Dave_Klein at May 03, '09 20:27 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
| Sure they have the power and in mafia terms therefore the authority to encroach on territory that is not under their direct sphere of influence. But by doing so does that mean that they're doing their job any better, or just satisfying privat whims. A lot has been said today about the mafia hierarchy and how there is no point even complaining when a Godfather acts in a manner you disagree with because your are just whining and 'it's not your place.' However even Thomas Rourke writes speeches explaining his actions and Marietta argues that she is a good leader and wants to be seen as such. This does not sit well with the argument that the only factor in being a godfather is that which is what is in your 'authority' to do. Etiquette comes into it as well and perhaps in a climate where crossing into empty cities to put down 'rogue' crewleaders is frowned up, the Godfathers would hesitate a moment and think about what is fair and just. Again just speaking generally and not singling anyone out as like Dave Klein I really don't know everything that happened. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 03, '09 20:30 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
| MewBestFriend I have not chosen to single anyone out, I'm just using examples that have come up in the past fews days. | |
| Reply by: Dave_Klein at May 03, '09 20:33 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
Choices. That's what everything we do is based on. The more power a person has, the greater the impact of the choices they make. Hypno probably made a foolish mistake in putting himself into the affairs of another city. Who knows why he did it? Maybe it was simple boredom. But, it was a choice he made and the choice had rough consequences. The same thing could happen to any other city if they make the wrong choice, but we only know if it was the right or wrong choice in hindsight. We make choices, and we live with the consequences of those choices. Those who are the most successful and are remembered for the longest time are those who make the best choices. Being a Godfather is the highest position a mobster can strive for. It is a daunting position, and it SHOULD garner fear, respect, and power. If you can attain that much power, you should be able to snap your fingers and make someone die. There is no greater authority in the mafia. |
|
| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 03, '09 20:33 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
| read the last sentence I didnt write "singling anyone out like Dave Klein" | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 03, '09 20:34 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
NBJ, I highly doubt the Godfathers consider what is fair and just when dealing outside of their family. Those are concerns of the government, the legal system, and baseball umpires. Not mobsters. As far as etiquette is concerned, I always say "please" and "thank you" right before blowing someone's brains out. |
|
| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 03, '09 20:38 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
| And thats what I was saying, Godfather's should have that authority and they do have that authority but it shouldn't and won't stop people disagreeing with their decisions or pointing out when they made a bad call. Continuously mentioning their authority just makes them seem weaker as it is preaching to the choir - we all already know the authority that they hold and they either choose to back this authority up with reason or don't. Its really their call and time will tell if their choice is the right one but continuously referring to your own authority is the mark of a poor leader. You either have it or you don't and people will see it or they won't. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 03, '09 20:39 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
I agree with you there. Actions speak louder than words. Reading through my family journals, I saw a situation where one of my ancestors, who was RHM for Anita, began killing people more or less at random because anonymous hits were posted on his family. Why did he do it? Because there wasn't a damn thing anyone could do about it, and it sent a clear message - don't fuck with his family, because he didn't give a rat's ass about being fair. This came as a shock to the actual culprit who posted the hits. This person started seeing their friends dying left and right, when their friends were innocent. Eventually the culprit admitted to posting the hits and went rogue, dying soon afterwards. That was an exercise in power that was obvious to all who witnessed it. It was the type of use of power that I would like to see here more often. When someone crosses the mafia, it is often the wife and children of the person who are harmed. That's the way we do business. It isn't nice, it isn't "fair", but it sure is effective. |
|
| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 03, '09 20:46 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
| You're talking about manners. When I say etiquette I'm meaning the code of behaviour that stops us killing under 48s. A godfather could probably get away with this, but they wouldn't do it as it is severely frowned upon. I was merely pointing out that the same thing could be applied to encroaching on other peoples sphere of influence. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 03, '09 20:46 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
| Yeah agreed. You should either explain to someone why they are wrong or kill them if you can instead of going on about the authority you have that everone knows about anyway. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 03, '09 20:49 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
I don't think so. The reason we do not kill the new immigrants is for reasons outside of our business realm (OOC: Growth of the site). What you are suggesting is that we put limits on our exercise of power that have only to do with things that impact our business (Not OOC reasons). When it comes to things like that, it will always depend on whether or not a particular party has the power to do something and whether or not it will benefit them. If someone has to power to do something, it will benefit them, and it isn't taboo for otherworldly reasons, it will always be done. And there is no reason why it shouldn't be done. This is the mafia. We are all about spreading our power and expanding our wealth. |
|
| Reply by: Butt_Ox at May 03, '09 20:50 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
| Hmm ok I am willing to concede that the two examples are different but the point remains that the mafia is not only what you can and can't do. There is still a code of conduct and going beyond your city limits if you're a godfather might or might not break that I'm not sure. But I wasn't actually saying that it was up to the Godfathers to curtail their own power. I was pointing out that it is in actual fact up to everyone else to do it for them as in the mafia everyone will do as much as they are allowed to do. Not that I'm actually complaining as I, so far haven't been affected. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 03, '09 21:02 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
I'm not worried about my safety or my crew's safety, specifically Fork, that is not the point of people setting up in a new city. I feel at ease with anyone who sets up because even if they become hostile what can they truthfully do to me? Nothing. I am a wrecking ball of brute force and greatness. The point of doing an "Auth By Council" is to ensure that people are put in place that we believe have worked hard to earn it and that we will get along with. Face it, if you aren't well liked and set yourself up, who would be there to vouch for you when another family wishes to kill you? Well... Nobody. Sure you might get put into power quicker, but you would have developed no contacts that would defend you in the face of adversity with other leaders. Look at my city for example; so far, although financially successful, many of the leaders who have set up in New York did so before they were ready and have been killed off except for the one shining example in Premier. |
|
| Reply by: ThomasRourke at May 03, '09 21:32 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
|
I'd like to just touch upon the point where you stated, "What influence do godfathers have in cities that they do not control?". A Godfather is a Godfather no matter where he goes and if he should have that sphere of influence available to him in which he has the ability to put a word into cities that he may not control by title, it is entirely in his power to exercise it for personal gain. If a Godfather has learned anything, it is to make the most of opportunities that may further advance your status. Whilst I am not informed entirely on what happened earlier today, and have been greeted by various conflicting explanations, I find it hard to believe that some are questioning the actions of a Godfather for not passing up an opportunity to achieve something that they felt was needed. You said it yourself, "the Godfathers have a greater responsibility than anyone else" and I believe it has been stated by various Godfathers and Godmothers that Munchkin's death was something they had personally wished to see weeks before this event even took place, so why allow that opportunity to slip you by? This is speaking strictly from an uninformed point of view, as well, so I'm not even taking into account what Munchkin or her Right Hand had done to warrant their demise. |
|
| Reply by: Alfieri at May 03, '09 23:50 | |
| Report Post | Tip |
| Post Reply | View All Threads | Page: 1 2 [ > - >>> ] |
How much do you want to tip for this post?
Minimum $20,000
Minimum $20,000
