| May 19 - 09:09:24 |
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| Debate: Buy a Gun or Rent a Bullet | Started by: Diego_rivera on May 19, '09 21:32 |
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A tall well-dressed gentleman steps forward among the masses of Mafioso's gathered in Times Square, NYC to listen to him vent. He looks toward a secluded area among the gathered masses and gestures ever so gently towards the Godfather and to his Don in a humble display of respect and proceeds to speak to the gathered mob in his presence. Greetings and respect to all the woman & men de La Cosa Nostra, I come before you all today to ask your opinion on an issue that has troubled me since I arrived on these streets since my long hiatus. Can a Mafioso be successful in this thing of ours without firing 1 shot or just rely on his diplomacy skills of just talking and finding a common ground amongst 21 famiglia heads? For too long has my famiglia name kept an archive of my bloodlines victorie & defeats, when my forefathers first arrived on these shores 6 years ago there were roughly about 200+ Mafioso's roaming the streets of our cities. As soon as I got of the ship fom the old country, I was bombarded by Mafioso's with little or no respect for this thing of ours. Nowadays we have roughly 1000+ Mafioso's and most of them are trying to establish a name for themselves by how many men they have sent to sleep with the fishes. With so many gangsters aiming there guns at the same IA or unsponsored it's a pretty competative market, the art of killing. Yet I have come across some high ranking Mafioso's that have yet to even load their guns nevertheless fire 1 shot. Then again we have the select few that all they must do is engrave the name of their victim and POOF there gone. So which are you: The itchy trigger finger happy gangster who shoots now and asks questions later or a bold strategist that thry communication finds the common ground to avoid the slaughter of many for the idea and point of iew of a few ? ? ? |
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"That all depends on the audience. If crew leaders are calling for their men to arm themselves, they will do so and train for the top gun slot. On the other hand, if a crew leader was to employ someone to advise and counsil him and his decisions, that man must surely have a reputation for doing so well. "As a generalisation..., well that depends what you are famous for. There are many facotrs to consider, loyalty, dedication to weapon training, dedication to money making, activity, attitude and decision making are the major attributes that make you, your character and therefore, your ability as a crew leader." Fisk enjoys a smoke, standing not too far from Signore Rivera. "It is a good question to ask of people, but remember, the reason we are not all at war right now, is because of our leaders' diplomacy skills" |
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| Reply by: Fisk_Capizzi at May 19, '09 21:40 | |
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A silhouette comes forth from the crowd, into the light. The black veil of her hat comes down over one eye. She looks rather distracted. She continues forth and starts to speak. "Personally, I believe that if person can get by by just using great communication skills, then that person should go ahead with that strategy. More power to them." She pauses, taking a deep breath. "If, however, the occasion should arise that said person needs to use his gun, he should be ready to fire when ordered so. Being well-trained and ready to fire if needed does not mean they should just go shoot everyone in their way. I do not believe they would get too far..." When finished speaking, she turns away, making her way through the crowd and the group that has gathered around Diego_Rivera. |
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| Reply by: Natalie_Marrie at May 19, '09 22:05 | |
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What's the old saying? Walk soft and carry a big stick? Meh, who knows. I would agree with those who say the most successful are those mafiosi who understand the right time for communication, the right time for using your gun, and the difference between the two. There certainly is a time for diplomacy, but if and when (as it unfortunately has many times in our lifetimes) diplomacy breaks down, all the talking in the world isn't going to save you from a bullet to the head. The only thing that can save you in that situation, is a gun of your own. So, both skills are necessary to be successful. My opinion anyway. |
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| Reply by: Brick_Pollitt at May 19, '09 22:35 | |
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I think the answer to your question depends on how you define "success." For example, you really can't be a successful member of your family's hit squad without ever firin' a gun, and you can't really be a successful, living member of the family if you like to shoot without thinkin'. I'd bet a fair number of people here define "success" as gettin' to wear a bold suit. If that's the case, then it's important that you've got the necessary set of skills. You gotta be able to communicate with the other leaders and act tactically. At the same time, you gotta be able to defend your family when the situation calls for it. If you can't shoot straight, you're gonna fail your family. And you'll also be dead. So, that'd really suck. Still, leaders gotta be able to lead. That is what will define their success--not their shot record. They can train a legion of hitters to defend the family, and they need a solid gun of their own for when they can't depend on the hit squad, but if they can't negotiate and work with the other families, chances are they won't be gettin' too far. |
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| Reply by: Decker_White at May 19, '09 22:51 | |
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I agree with Mr Pollitt opinion that both skills are necessary to be successful. I think most people choose to build up their gun or other skill first before they build up their diplomacy skill. because we cant not denies the fact that Structural position, Rank and Shooting skill are greatly affecting the effectiveness of diplomacy skill. |
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| Reply by: McLovin at May 20, '09 04:46 | |
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Whether you're a crew leader, a family member, or a new guy on the streets, a good balance between the two skills would be appropriate. Going to extremes with one skill while neglecting others would eventually lead to ones downfall. A guy with a good gun but without acceptable communication skills can only hope for chaos and death in their future. Having a good gun might help in certain "diplomatic" situations, IE a situation where deterrence would likely succeed. But using fear as a tool doesn't always yield likable results. Likewise a person that is gifted with a silver tongue but doesn't even know how to aim properly would have the same fate as the guy mentioned earlier. Sure, a guy that has good diplomacy skills can prevent wanton killing and war to a certain degree. But in this thing of ours one can never escape conflict, no matter how good you are at communicating. And being in conflict with other people without a good gun can only get you so far. |
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| Reply by: SylvesterHargrave at May 20, '09 08:13 | |
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A very good point Sylvester, and well made. While it is true that being skilled with a gun will help you defend your family at times of war, having no voice, or bad personal skills will eventually lead to your demise.. We have seen this countless times with crewleaders, such as the most recent TM-Scarface. But then, I believe that not having a skilled gun, and just being good at talking can also be bad. As sure as death and taxes, people will soon enough realise that you are all mouth and no trousers, and when that day comes, you will not have the firepower to protect your crew. I am not saying however, that just because you only possess one of these two qualities that it makes you a bad leader, or a bad mafioso at all. It is just simply those who can grasp both of those qualities, the person that can talk their way out of a situation or shoot their way out if they have to, are the people who are most likely to be remembered. V. |
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| Reply by: Vehellione at May 20, '09 10:24 | |
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| Agreed V. I think people should strive for both. You should be able to help out with your gun and your words depending on the best solution to the situation. Some may require both, others may call for one. However, to have both skills, talking and shooting, I would believe requires the third, the ability to think about wich skill is best used at the time. | |
| Reply by: Jokes at May 20, '09 11:01 | |
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Hey there folks. I think the debate here is - is it better to have good gun skills OR personality and strategy skills? Nearly everyone has immediately said 'I would like both.' Not in so many words and often with a well thought out argument behind it. However we're not all perfect mafioso's - you must have weaknesses in one area and strengths in the other. Maybe you could say which way you would lean towards, rather than just jumping, one after another, onto the fence in the middle - which kind of defeats the purpose of discussion. It might make for a more interesting debate if there was an opposing viewpoint. For my part, having strategy and personal skills is far more important than having a good gun. This is not a world where you can shoot your way to the top as if you think about it, every time you go to war with someone there's 50% percent chance you're gonna end up dead, instead its a lot more risk free if you try to sort out problems by talking. |
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| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 20, '09 15:33 | |
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If I had to choose between the two, I'd prefer having a good gun. As I've said before, diplomacy can only get you so far, especially when someone decides to go rogue all of the sudden. As long as humans and our unique personalities exist, war and conflict can never, ever, be abolished. In times like those your gun (Or the gun of someone else) will determine your fate. When it comes to war, a good strategist (who for the sake of argument, would have a below-average gun) would be able to win a war, provided that there are people with decent guns in his crew. Otherwise he'd be dead, no matter how many bodyguards he has. Also, having good gun skills can prevent conflict to a certain degree, especially when ones gun is feared by all. But does this mean that I support the fact that having only gun skills will make you succeed? No. All I'm saying is that I lean more towards trained guns when it comes to conflict. Although there are periods where in everybody lives in relative peace, war will be inevitable, whether the cause of said war is some idiot, an act of carelessness, or whatever. I still support balance between the two. |
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| Reply by: SylvesterHargrave at May 20, '09 16:23 | |
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| To be honest with you i think you can make it all the way without firing one shot yeah its hard to but it isnt impossible. A lot of it is who you know and what you know. Yes what you do does have a major effect on what you do in this world of ours but shooting isnt a major factor | |
| Reply by: Grim-Reaper at May 20, '09 18:16 | |
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| I would have to say if I had to pick just one, I would prefer to make it without firing a shot. If you think about it, if you could make your way from talking to everyone, you're obviously going to be more socially accepting than blasting anyone who disagrees with you. I'd imagine running around with your gun out no matter how good you are, would not end well.... | |
| Reply by: Jokes at May 20, '09 18:22 | |
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My point is, not having a good gun would be bad for your overall survival. Oh sure you can succeed without ever firing a single bullet, heck you may even be able to reach Godfather if your lucky enough. But all that hard work would be gone in a split second when the brown stuff hits the fan. You can always postpone conflict, but thats it, you can only postpone it. For whatever reason it may be, someone out there will cause a ruckus one way or another. It is possible to befriend every single individual world if you desire, but it'd be a daunting task. All of us have a unique view on life, and not everybody agrees with everybody. One day there will be some asshole stupid enough (or brave/cunning enough if you prefer) that WILL try to kill you. For what reason? We will never know. It may happen in the distant future but it will happen. You CAN be civilized no matter what your gun skill is. Heck, only people with a certain grasp in our world can make their gun skills decent. I don't see anybody here flaunting their gun around. Having a decent gun doesn't automatically mean that that person would cap the ass of everybody he disagrees with. |
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| Reply by: SylvesterHargrave at May 20, '09 18:53 | |
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| Once your Godfather you don't need a good gun. You get other people to do your work for you. I would say bodyguards are much more important that having a good gun when it comes to protection. Having a good gun is for those who enjoy hitting for their bosses or taking petty revenge over arguments in the streets, it does not protect you but as someone wise said puts 'a big bullseye on your back', when some asshole tries to kill you, having a good gun will not make the slightest difference. On the other hand, having friends who would be willing to take revenge might make the hitter think twice. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 20, '09 19:00 | |
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But thats IF you get to Godfather without training your gun. You'd be a pretty lucky person if you have not met any opposition for a couple of months. And what if it wasn't an asshole, but a whole bunch of conniving assholes planning on making a new regime? There is a lot of possibilities and variables, and it all boild down to chance to be honest. God my paranoia is getting the best of me. Must...calm...down! Sly gets a brand new cigar from his breast pocket, light it, and puffs at it intently |
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| Reply by: SylvesterHargrave at May 20, '09 19:13 | |
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Both for sure. I mean you cant just have an itchy trigger finger and expect it to get ya to the top. I mean you need diplomacy skills as well. But I say you need both. |
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| Reply by: -Joker- at May 20, '09 19:14 | |
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| The point I'm making is that one man can't stand alone - thats why rogues die quickly. With using your wacking ability as a defense you are generally relying on collective security. So if you want to be machiavellan about it you yourself don't need your gun - you rely on others. To stand out from the collective and achieve success its not the gun you need, its the personality. | |
| Reply by: NewBestFriend at May 20, '09 19:19 | |
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| personality is one thing firepower is another, how are u going to drop or how u say WHACK mobsters without a nice GAT or TOMMYGUN. | |
| Reply by: williexv1 at May 21, '09 13:50 | |
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I would have to agree with Mr. Pollitt and Mr. White. There comes a time and place for everything, whether diplomacy is required, or a gun. The trick is to balance the two so that you are able to enforce and protect your city, and lacking one or the other usually has their own set of consequences. However, I think it's in everyone's best interest in the name of business to prefer diplomacy over violence. Death is the number one money loser in our business, and we aren't exactly fishing to go bankrupt. |
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| Reply by: Vicodin at May 21, '09 14:41 | |
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