Walking through the bustling Chicago city centre, Peter stops at one of the busier street corner and kicks an empty fruit crate onto it's side before tentatively checking if it will hold his weight. Stepping up onto the surprisingly sturdy crate, Peter clears his throat to attract some attention from the throng of people and begins musing to the expectant crowd:

"Vengeance. It's something we've all considered, whether we want to admit it or not.

Be it a restaurant worker spitting in a burger or something far more sinister, we've all had those thoughts about exacting some form of satisfying revenge and seeing the face of our foe, once they realise the gravity of our intent.

However, I'm here to question whether it's worth it. You work hard to get to where you are and a couple of minutes of madness can cost you your job, your friends, your lifestyle or even your life... and for what? To be remembered not as someone seeking justice, but - to the masses who know nothing of your back-story, as petty and vindictive.

More often than not, people who you once commanded respect from will be wary of your intentions and despite how hard we try, family will always be remembered with a slightly tainted vision of ourselves. Kin will be marred, friends questioned and the victim revered as an unfortunate victim, all for the sake of vengeance; a couple of seconds of satisfaction.

Now, I'm not much of a vengeful person. As my mother taught me - I forgive, but never forget, so I cannot understand the mentality of alienating yourself from those closest to you, all for the sake of some perceived injustice; a slight which could be nothing more than an innocent misunderstanding, and what's worse - vengeance isn't justice. It's not equal or fair. By it's very definition, vengeance is a violent, callous act, perpetrated by a person who was unable to retaliate at the time, so it snowballs and becomes an engorged version of the retaliation we wish we were able to extract at the time.

That burger you served to the flatfoot? What's to say he won't realise, pick you up for a minor infraction a week later, then escalate it, just 'cos he can and he remembers your face? Will you leave it at that? The chances are, if you're a vengeful person, you won't."

Stepping down from the crate, Peter leaves the crowd with one last valedictory statement:

"So, with that, I open the floor to my fellow man. Vengeance; is it worth it and at what point does it go too far?"

I think it depends on the situation. If someone back-stabbed me and caused my death and that of and my entire family/district to get himself in a better spot, I would hold some sort of grudge. I think vengeance is only worth it when you plan something with your allies, and you plan to live after taking revenge. If not, something like this could happen:

  Death > Grudge > Revenge > Death > Grudge 

And then you're stuck in some sort of loop.

I've never really 'sworn' revenge, and if I had thoughts about avenging myself or someone else, the person was dead by the time I was able to hurt him.

Thus I would say that vengeance is not worth it unless you have allies with you and the odds are (somewhat) advantageous. Or sometimes the vengeance can be 'spread' among multiple generations of a bloodline. Some sort of grand plan for vengeance.

Vengeance to me has changed in recent times to me.

In the past, this was vengeance. Someone did your mother or your father wrong and had them killed off for voicing an opinion in the streets. Someone didn't agree it or didn't like it but they made sure your ancestor received a bullet to back of the head. You would get vengeance somehow by either attacking their crewleader's forts or bodyguards. Or maybe somehow you convinced a powerful friend of yours to do your own bidding for you. Either way you'd get vengeance. 

These days its as if its like a battle of regimes. I mean if you look at it you've had certain groups and individuals even, get to power at one point and then they would lose it. They would lose it to someone and then take it back from months later. And the cycle would then continue on in this fashion. I'm not going to get into certain groups or politics but its been like this the past couple of years. Its just how it is and I can correctly assume that it will happen again. Just give it time. 

Is it worth it though? From what I just explained to how vengeance has changed in my eyes as of recent, it does't become anything but a necessity at that point. You have to make these moves to get to the top and then it'll cycle again. It has to happen and it is indeed worth it.

Yes. I do believe vengeance can go too far. I mean you hear about certain bloodlines getting killed off repeatedly because of something their grandfather's father did a year ago or something. I am probably one of the biggest advocates when it comes to starting fresh when someone's next of kin arrives on our shores. I cannot stand someone dropping from's crew and shooting at someone because their father did them wrong in the past. It is childish and it literally solves nothing. 

IvanRomanov, what if said person was incognito and had somehow entered your family? Let's say this person did you wrong in the recent past, and now that you found out his identity, would you keep him in your crew? 

Death comes to us all, there is no such thing as an eternal life in our line of business. The only thing guaranteed in the life of a mobster is death, so I see no point in expediting that inevitability with something as pointless as a grudge, especially when that grudge spans generations. Don't get me wrong - if I see someone in the morgue who has fucked me over, I'll indulge in a smile and perhaps revel in the knowledge that they got what was deserved, but that ill-feeling is not something I would harbour through a persons lineage.

IvanRomanov, what if said person was incognito and had somehow entered your family? Let's say this person did you wrong in the recent past, and now that you found out his identity, would you keep him in your crew? 

Honestly, I would.

Even if it was recent and wasn't years ago like I mentioned. If someone can join my crew, put forth an effort into building something stronger than it was, work along with other members, be trustworthy and loyal, anyone is then welcome. I have always given someone the benefit of the doubt even when friends have given me their own input. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. But I stand for clean slates when an ancestor reaches these shores after an incident.

Whatever the scenario was that presents the "need" for vengeance, I believe in this motto:

"Live. Die. Improve."

Whatever happened, vengeance rarely creates something positive. Perhaps you feel justified, but you've lost a night in delivering vengeance. You've risked being chased by cops or put in front of a judge. You risk your life to change something which can't be undone anyway. Is that worth it?

The thing that you, or your kin should do after having been the victim of whatever the fuck ever, is to learn their lesson and make sure the same thing doesn't happen again. In that way you are changing your future, while you leave the past the past.

Now, don't get me wrong. Sometimes a nice swing of a bat into someone's kidneys helps in learning other people their lesson and when that situation calls for it, I would deliver. But it's important to realize that whatever your actions in vengeance are, you have to think about yourself too. Because if you are bringing someone down, while damaging yourself, is that really worth it?

It has been a long time since Shizuo had been on the streets. He had been gone for a month since he took a vacation and had just finished settling things in his new HQ and old home in South Philly so he decided to go on a refreshing walk at the Streets to relax and hopefully join a meaningful discussion. He was not disappointed when he heard the words vengeance, satisfaction and justice coming from the direction where PeterBurke was talking, so he stepped to blend in with the small crowd so that he can listen to Peter's speech. As he saw that the other fellow mafiosi have finished talking, he stepped in front and turned his face to the small audience.

"First, I must say that this is one interesting discussion not only since my bloodline is called Vengeance after two of my ancestors (Sorry, I couldn't control myself to stop stating this pun) but because revenge has been a hot, recurring topic since the days of old after all these thugs and respectable men had chosen to exact revenge unjust by the terms of our world. Let me say how my bloodline responds to these urges of revenge.

My ancestors have also passed on the same knowledge that Peter's mother had bestowed him; forgive but never forget. I always remember the bad things that people do to me but I don't let these things of the past hinder my decisions regarding these people for two reasons; One, not just because someone is of the same bloodline doesn't mean his/her attitude and morals are the same of his/her ancestors for bloodlines do have a change of heart every generation, and second, I know that exacting illegal revenge might give me a sudden rush of bliss and accomplishment over taking a matter in my own hands but the long-term effects of it would be disastrous like obviously your death, and the tarnishing of your bloodline that could possibly affect your descendants' futures in this world of ours, so I just bottle up these feelings so that they can't affect my bloodline's future and wait for an opportune moment to exact justice without breaking the set rules which my ancestors haven't been able to perform yet."

Contented with his speech, Shizuo stepped aside, went back into the small crowd, and waited if there will still be anyone who would share his views on this matter.

Albino, although an unknown on these Streets, felt he too had something to share. Stepping forth from the crowd, Albino began to speak.

"Both big fish and little fish have thoughts of vengeance. Every man, no matter how big or small he may be, hates his toes getting stepped on. Every man of our world has a reputation to uphold. We will all lose kin at some point or another, it is the dice we roll in the circles we move. But we must ensure we learn from our ancestors. In order for someone to fall in this world, there must be a reason. I'm fresh meat around these parts, but I know nothing happens without good reason. Seeking vengeance would only spur more reasoning for further bloodshed and upset. As others have said, there is often a time when vengeance is just and required, and in those cases, we must be sure to take smart actions. For if we don't take smart action, we'd end up being just another reason for vengeance. However, I feel that in most cases, vengeance is just an act of pride. There is not enough room in this world for everyone's pride. Sometimes, things must be forgotten and new paths must be forged or we would never evolve, progress or move forward.

Whenever you are considering vengeance, remember your future is more important than your past."

Albino respectfully nods his head towards Peter and the crowd and blends back in amongst them.