Mistakes and the path of honor

Not so long ago a LHM of the LA project made something of a mistake. He got some backlash for it in the streets and ultimately decided to step down; publicly announcing his intent to do so. After he faced more backlash and scrutiny for that, he decided to retire. 

I personally think such an act is a very honorable one and I for one applaud it. The old Samurai in Japan would commit seppuku if they had brought dishonor to their lord and clan, and I see this example as being no different.  

That brings me to the following question; is it more honorable to take your own life a la Brutus, or is it better for your leader (or enemy) to take your life? Surely a notch on your leader's gun will help him more than your retirement, but is it honorable, or just selling your life, perhaps in the hope to regain a little bit of favor? I wonder what the views of the community are.

A standard for all; a look at cities

If you compare the city rules of all the currently inhabited cities [with the exception of Los Angeles]. Pretty much all of them repeat the same rules in different wording. I guess we have come to an more or less uniform set of city rules, some worded differently from others but still retaining the same meaning and effects. This is fair.

However, should cities share common standards when it comes to things like street presence for leaders? Perhaps it is better this way as to avoid conflict, but was it any different back in the ol' days? Were city much more independent in their standards and rules than nowadays? 

Respect & Disrespect

Why is it that we respect others? Do we truly respect them or do we hold our tongues in fear of being silenced forever? And what is disrespect? Recent events have shown us that the definition of disrespect is not a clear one. I personally think that using derogatory terms and insults are where the true disrespect begins. Before that it is no real disrespect but rather a form of fallacious arguing. Is arguing with a leader in a 'confronting' way disrespectful? Even if sometimes these leaders need to be corrected, sometimes in a more aggressively spoken way. Is challenging statements and issuing a quick retort disrespectful, or is it just another way of debate?

What matters is what our leaders think and where they draw the line. Is an derogatory and aggressive retort spoken by a leader's tongue towards a man of lesser rank disrespectful? Is it acceptable for a leader to insult and threaten lowlier placed people in the streets? Or does disrespect only exist if it is aimed towards these leaders? Some people say that disrespect coming from leaders is nonexistent to very uncommon. I am relieved to say that in recent times this has been the case. But not so long ago we had Don's and Godfathers insulting the intelligence of their 'lesser' colleagues in crime. There was even an indirect threat, used to subdue criticism by showing that others who participated in the particular discussion are now rotting in their graves. I think such insult and threats only arises when the leader's arguments have failed them and when they can't find a way to address the criticism with other means than resorting to liw insults on people's character and their bloodline.

Thus I ask the following questions: When is it disrespect and is there a level of disrespect considered acceptable? Is there a grey area between respect and disrespect, a grey area left unpunished because we see the apparent signs of disrespect?

And does disrespect coming from leaders exist or is that considered to be a reasonable attitude to have? And if such disrespect exists, will it be activity battled and possibly punished, or will it be forgotten and forgiven because of the status these men hold? Surely our leaders are here to lead by example. Thus a disrespectful leader will inspire his associates to have a big mouth, more so than a calm and temperate leader.

Lolita; a rewrite

I took this little story from one of my ancestor's journals. It is a speech he made on the streets a small while ago. I have rewritten certain passages and now I am here to bring an - hopefully - improved version of my ancestor's speech to the streets. See it as some sort of cheap satire upon member whoring, as just a fun little story, view it however you wish.

Luciano 'Larry' Luciano was, to most eyes, a respected and honorable mafioso. A man with a knack to succeed at his criminal endeavors, an able shooter and someone who's tongue often spoke in the streets.  Naturally, he was held in high esteem by his fellow mafiosi and they didn't dare to think that his great standards could slip in some cases.  Little did they know about the tragedy from long ago that still plagued the tormented soul of Luciano. A long time ago, Luciano had been the sponsor of a young, energetic and enthusiastic thug whom Luciano  simply adored. He trained him in our ways as much has he could, hoping that the little thug would one day be a Made Man of his own. But tragedy had it's way: One day  the young thug was overcome with depression and a feeling of uselessness. Luciano prayed and prayed - something he hadn't done in years. The thug ultimately took his own life before even reaching the rank of gangster. Luciano grieved for days and days; he wouldn't forget the thug.

From that moment on Luciano had an obsession with any thug that just looked a bit like the young associate he held so dearly. Some, if they knew of it, would label the obsession unhealthy. He began to approach those fresh of the boat, something he did before, but now something had changed. He contacted these youngsters without knowing who they were, only driven by his passion and the  obsession he had with his lost associate. He couldn't risk being caught however; sometimes he had to disguise his movements.

Thus he chose to be the sponsor for an older and slightly more respected mobster; a Wise guy. He trained the Wise guy how things worked, but he didn't put in any passion. He passed along information; but he did not feel attachment to his associate. The training went well and for a brief moment he forgot about his old thug associate, but his obsession did not take long to dominate his thoughts again. So he cautiously approached 'his' wise guy. He asked him if he knew of any friends that were still very young and unsponsored; thugs. 

The Wise Guy did not see any problem with this and got hold of his friends, instructing them to work under Luciano, who was very pleased. Most of these new associates died within a small amount of time, but one thug remained alive and stood out among the others. A young girl, very enthusiastic about the life of crime and very eager to work. 

Luciano did not hesitate and was quick to promise the girl riches, power and anything that she desired. Everyone would bow to her will, provived that she become his associate. Naive as she was, the girl accepted the offer without a single doubt. Now she was his. Now he could mold and shape her to his liking.

“Don't cry, I'm sorry to have deceived you so much, but that's how life is.” 

But the girl wasn't happy with Luciano and as soon as she made enough money she left, this time for another family within the district. Luciano snapped. He shot the girl's new sponsor. He laid low for about an hour and then took another shot; this time at the poor girl herself. She died in his arms. Content, he put the gun to his head and he shot himself, finally being reunited his his long lost and first associate.

Personally, I'm all for falling on my own sword should the situation require that action. I wouldn't want to put my wonderful boss through torture of 'putting down one of her own', the extra skill gained from shooting me is far too minor to sway my mind.

'Back in the day' where my ancestors started out, there were allies across cities. However, with a weird twist.. usually the crews in the same city were not allies. However you have to take into consideration that family sizes back then were upto 200 members, so crews generally didn't need to look for allies... just good, strong members. There were times when street presence was a must and times where it fell completely by the waysude, it always depends on the people in power and how important they view it.

We usually don't personally respect others really, we just do as we are told. However, it takes a lot to earn my true respect... I can be civil and courteous should my boss wish me to be towards certain people, but nobody can be forced to respect someone... they just respect someone whom they give a shit about enough to not cause trouble, respect MUST be earned. 

Unless I'm just outright abusing someone by throwing insults their way I wouldn't expect to be told to calm down/be quiet. Sometimes what I say can come off with quite an aggressive tone... but I'm quite an aggressive person. So if I'm speaking to someone out here who has pissed me off or I dislike/don't respect that's likely to be more prevalent in my speech. I don't think it should particularly matter who you are speaking to out here, as long as you're not just hurling insults then you're free to say whatever you please. If they person you're aiming at takes offence, then it's their choice whether to bite back similarly, talk to their boss/your boss about you or take matters into their own hands. The thought of either of these options happening should not deter you from speaking your mind though. I find very little wrong with picking fault with anybody's point of view... as long as that is all you're picking fault with (and not with the person themselves). 

It is a hugely grey area for most people, but I find it easy to comprehend personally. If your speech is aimed entirely at the person making the speech, it's disrespectful (I am guilty of this towards Kuku sometimes :P), if you are disagreeing with them and picking out flaws in their logic/argument, then you are still the right side of respect... even if you decide to throw in a little sarcasm/satire with it.

Cin listened with interest as she heard Goto speaking in the streets. Her mind had previously been on worries of her own but those settled as she started to think on what he was saying. Turning towards him she started to reply on all that he mentioned.

My mother and her mother before her and so on were all taught that taking your own life was a form of disrespect to the leader you were under. I can understand this. So for me suicide is not honorable.

If you truly wanted to help your leader would you not just give them the +1 to begin with? If you felt this leader was great why would you insult him in such a way? Perhaps I am a tad old fashioned in this but I cannot see it as being honorable. Perhaps in Japan in would be, but not here, and not in this life of ours.

Pausing momentarily she recollected the second part in her head. She quickly gathered her thoughts and settled on her words.

I personally think that leadership should be an all around standard. Once again I will state that I feel leaders should have some form of presence aside from congratulating others on their authorization to set up. I think it is important to new blood on these shores to be able to look and see what their leaders stand for. What they state they stand for at least outside of personal one on one communication. There should just be something to assess a leader's ability to speak to others by, if nothing else.

I don't recall reading about cities being wholly different from others. I mean there were mentions of things like death taxes and what not but they rarely lasted long. Long ago cities weren't divided up in so many districts with so many godfathers either though. Perhaps my line has forgotten but off the top of my head I don't recall too many differences that lasted long.

Cin stopped talking to catch her breath. She brushed a few strands of her hair away from her face before she returned to the next point.

I can't speak for leaders, but respect involves everyone. It truly is a two way street. You see I am capable of being civil to leaders and others alike, but make no mistake, it does not mean that I respect them.

I have learned that it takes the ability to be civil so that an argument or heated discussion does not turn bad. After all it is a shame to see people lying in their graves because they couldn't take a moment, breath and then continue on with their points. I get it that people want to be right, but we all have our faults. So if you think a leader is wrong you may have to at some point bite your tongue and hope they can see it for themselves. No amount of arguing will change someone's mind if they are already set on the issue.

I don't believe anyone should be silences just because they have a differing of opinions. I do think though that there is a fine line if you are going to call out a leader on what is acceptable on how to do so and what is not. There may be grey area depending on things like how that leader feels about your line, what exactly was said and so many other factors.

 I do think that there are leaders that can be disrespectful and it gets shrugged off. A lot of people believe that it is their right to have an attitude to get that far. I however, will argue against that. If you treat the low ranks with utter disrespect, then when a war happens and they "forget" that they were supposed to protect you or any number of other things you really shouldn't be surprised.

If you come in with an attitude, you should expect one returned to you. That is how I feel about it.

Cin had nothing left to say so she moved off to the side a bit. She was curious if anyone else would add their thoughts to the conversation as well. She was particularly interested to see if the leaders would make an appearance since it would be nice to get some feed back on their thoughts with the questions Goto posed.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, Father_TeQ. I found them immensely helpful and I must say I agree with (most) of what you say.

We usually don't personally respect others really, we just do as we are told. However, it takes a lot to earn my true respect... I can be civil and courteous should my boss wish me to be towards certain people, but nobody can be forced to respect someone... they just respect someone whom they give a shit about enough to not cause trouble, respect MUST be earned. 

I find that this applies to myself too. Sometimes I will disagree or dislike with what a leader said, but I feel like I can't disagree with his statements in a civil way, I will refrain from doing so. If my leader says to be civil towards others I will do so, but if they call me out they can expect a retort, which may include some sarcasm and satire here and there, which I feel isn't disrespect, as you've said yourself.

Cin, you mentioned this:

If you truly wanted to help your leader would you not just give them the +1 to begin with? If you felt this leader was great why would you insult him in such a way? Perhaps I am a tad old fashioned in this but I cannot see it as being honorable. Perhaps in Japan in would be, but not here, and not in this life of ours.

I always feel that being killed for a mistake makes it looks worse somehow. I feel like taking your own life washes away the sins by cleansing it with your death. Some might call it a cowards way out, I disagree. Holding the honor to yourself is not cowardly, it takes quite some willpower to do so. 

 I don't believe anyone should be silences just because they have a differing of opinions. I do think though that there is a fine line if you are going to call out a leader on what is acceptable on how to do so and what is not. There may be grey area depending on things like how that leader feels about your line, what exactly was said and so many other factors.

I definitely thing that it is wrong  to call out a leader publicly on some things, but not all. I also think it is very disrespectful for a leader to call out the leadership of another city. Thank you for visiting this little corner also.

Cin smiles.

While I can appreciate that you think it seems worse but I am confused how the reasoning behind it. I ask because when it comes to cleansing your sins it just seems silly. You are taking your life on your own time which seems a bit selfish.

So I guess what I am asking is, how does suicide cleanse anything when viewed as a selfish act?

Some would see it as a selfish act, and perhaps it is in some cases. But I generally do not think retiring/comitting suicide for a mistake you made is selfish at all, no. You realize your mistake and you punish yourself rather than waiting for your leader to shoot you like cattle waiting for slaughter.

Okay but to do so before the leader even knows what you did? To take away that shot from your leader? To callously just leave the world like that?

I mean you could just ask the leader to kill you. Is that not a form of suicide? When you acknowledge that you screwed up, and/ or that you do not wish to be amongst their crew anymore so you decide it is time to leave. That does not make the leader look foolish but to do so yourself without speaking to them first? Makes them look a bit foolish for allowing you to enter their doors.

If you sent your leader a mail before you commit suicide you should be good, in my opinion. That said I can understand if leaders are dissapointed or perhaps a bit mad about it, but that depends on the leader.

I think that even requesting death is still less honorable and more 'shameful' than committing suicide/retiring. 

I still so no problem with suiciding rather than letting your own boss shoot you. I don't view it as 'callously leaving this world' at all. I see it more as... you've realised and owned up to your fault/mistake and you don't need your boss to tell you that you've done wrong, you already know.

If I was in a bold suit, I would much rather see my member admit his/her mistake and fall on their sword paving the way for their son or daughter to rejoin the family with a 'clean slate' so to speak. The additional skill or small taste of revenge I would gain from killing them myself does not compare to someone being 'man enough' to admit their own flaws in my book.