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| Just a thought | Started by: Manila` on Nov 11, '07 20:53 |
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I'm not really much of a vocal person. Most of the time, I just watch and listen to people who talks in the streets. Some I find interesting and worth listening to and some are worthless pieces of craps that I would rather listen to my wife's ramblings than listen to it... Well it's really disappointing to learn that some people talk in the streets without even thinking about what they are saying. They just talk to let people know that they are active in the streets. Yes, there are still people who talks "Intelligent" in the streets but they are but a few. But that doesn't bother me much, what bothers me most is how people responds to this "Not so Good" threads. They reply as if the person who just talked is someone below them, that they are better than Him/her, more Intelligent and tougher. But are they? How can we make the streets better if we have this certain "Crab mentality" present in the streets? Couldn't you just say.. "Hey I think this thread needs some editing..., nice effort though. Try doing a better one next time?" Instead of..."This really sucks, and you suck! etc... etc..." How will people be active in the streets if you keep doing these things to those people who are trying their best to do well in the streets? Will you lose one of your balls if you reach out and try helping the ones who needs help? Just a thought... Lits a cigarette and walks away |
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Stands there and listens then smiling I think to myself, this is the best worded and most intelligent thread I've read in awhile. Our CL says we have to be active in the streets to rank, then when we try our best in a speech and then get put down and made fun of or cussed at it makes me feel like my best just isn't good enough. Makes me wonder if all the ridicule is worth it. Thinking of the old days, I can remember when someone came to the streets to speak about a subject that plagued0 them, and was disrespected by someone who just wanted the attention. The person, doesn't matter what rank or position of power they held, was deemed ignorant, rude, and dead. So what has happened to those days? It seems now we are plagued with not much to talk about and the little we can muster, torn down by disrespectful and uncareing people, who seem to be "favoured" due to their repetition of their manners without punishment. shakes my head and turns to walk away |
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| Reply by: bite_me at Nov 11, '07 21:18 | |
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You're 100% right on Manila'. How do we hope for this community to grow, if we keep insulting their efforts? Having a 48 hour "Don't Kill the Noob" rule just isn't enough in helping our new immigrants out. It's up to us to be supportive and train up these folks, lest new mafiosi immigrate, stay a day, shoot at "sponsored earner A", get shot, then immigrate to a new world that takes interest in them. That's just my opinion though. Others may embrace the elitist attitude, have their laughs at others expense, and then complain about how few people there are to kill. Everyone has a choice. |
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| Reply by: VonGaunt at Nov 11, '07 21:20 | |
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| Thanks for your opinions. I just hope people paid attention to what we have said... | |
| Reply by: Manila` at Nov 12, '07 03:42 | |
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This Sucks,You suck. Never make another thread! jk! *Guardian stands there listening to Mr Manila,He awaits the end of his speech and begins to give his opinion* I'd have to agree with you Manila,Me myself is not really a very active streets posting type of person but i can't say that i don't try to be.In some intresting topics i'll throw my two cent in.The point is atleast i try right!?That's what matters.You came accross a good point.I've noticed alot in the threads i've read how some people put others down.I would agree if the thread is totaly pointless sure tell the guy he's an idiot lol but if its something that in a way seems like it makes sence and the guy actually put thought and effort into it why not give him the benefit of the doubt and work with it instead of giving him insulting comments. *Guardian nods his head* |
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| Reply by: -TheGuardian- at Nov 12, '07 03:52 | |
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There's a difference between you standard "shoot'em down" criticism or what I prefer to call, destructive criticism, and the constructive criticism mentioned here. Have a cookie. Carlo puts down his "I <3 RonMexico" banner for a minute to hand out cookies. |
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| Reply by: Carlo at Nov 12, '07 03:57 | |
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Cathy walks purposely towards the crowd and manages to jostle her way towards the front. "I just wanted to bring an idea forth, that I didn't think was worth starting my own conversation over, but I would like to hear people's thoughts. "I know that some of you might think that training up new immigrants to start their own conversations should be something the family does. But would it be worthwhile to perhaps start a society of some sort. A select group of people willing to help people with their speeches? "This is something that's been on my mind for a while. I'd be happy to head this up, but would it be worthwhile? Should it be something I bring up with my own Boss? There is so much emphasising on training other aspects of this life. But perhaps we need good people out their willing to work on the way our community interacts in the streets as well. "I'd really like some feedback on this if anyone is willing to give it. My apologies to Signore Manilla for interupting his conversation, but I believe this is in keeping with the topic at hand." Cathy waits to see if anyone will speak up. |
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| Reply by: Cathy_Parks at Nov 12, '07 15:18 | |
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Just sort of dozing nearby, the conversation catches his attention. I've actually noticed that myself. Granted, I'm quite new to the system, still getting the hang of the various odds and ends of the game. But I've noticed. In my mind, one of the most crucial aspects of an organization, especially one such as the mafia, is a little something called respect. When you speak, you expect to at least be heard. Allow others the same respect, and hear them. You never have to agree, but if you choose to disagree, be civil. Many new players will learn by example. I know I did. The game leaves it up to the player to decide how they will treat their own participation here. Nearly all of what I do in this game is because of what I have seen other users do, or I do it on a word of advice I recieved from a more experienced player. What, then, do we expect the new players to act like when the threads are filled with back and forth cut-downs? I'll tell you, it doesn't sound very enticing to join in on. Cathy, I like your ideas. Yes, there are other aspects of the game that require training as well, but what are those with no foundation? I believe that an increased emphasis on speeches and street interaction would be beneficial to all. New players can become acclimated to the system much more easily, and it would give a more positive image to the site all-around if there were less bickering. A society of some sort? Yes, I like the idea. Public Relations, an Immigrant Outreach movement, call it what you will. I'm all for it. Shuffles off to find a bench, having done enough speaking to last him the week. |
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| Reply by: Uncle_Eliseo at Nov 12, '07 16:53 | |
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| It's amazing how something so simple can be debated again and again. I am not meaning any disrespect, but we can only debate things like this so many times. I want to say more, but it has been said before. | |
| Reply by: MrGammy at Nov 12, '07 18:48 | |
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*Wanders down the street and stops to listen to the conversation. Understanding MrGammy's point, he still can't help but throw in his two cents* To be honest, yes this conversation has arisen before like you said, but this one seems to stem from quite educated people so I might as well add my humble opinion. Now my great granddaddy who was the first to arrive at these shores was a gibbering idiot, I doubt many others could claim otherwise thinking back...must be something in the Sicilian water. Anyhow, sure the old bastard got a hard time on the streets, sometime I cringe when people remind me about just what he said. But here's the thing...he made a mistake yes, but he never made the same mistake again. Why is this you say? Its because people pointed, shouted and laughed...and he learned his lessons quite quickly soon after. Its what makes us who we are, a rite of passage if you will, and I for one am thankful, because I think it has made me stronger. Granted some people go over the top with their insults, but hey, if you can't hack a little bit of backtalk when your off the boat, how do you think you'll fare when your settling a dispute with a rival family?! What I'm trying to say is, don't count these experiences in a negative light, accept that you made a mistake, learn from it and improve next time. Quit being so sensitive for Gods sake, they bust your balls to educate you. Oh and Bite_me, will all due respect to your position in this thing of ours, and I do not intend to cause offence, but its pronounced cursed not cussed, it's a slang of a perfectly good word, please use it..it's a simple matter, but damn it matters to me. And Cathy, it's a good suggestion, I'd say it would be hard to implement on a community wide scale, so maybe start within your own ranks first and see how you fare. If anything you'll find out what lessons work and what don't before you bring it to the masses. *Half thinks about walking off but overhears the mention of cookies so decides to hang around a little longer* |
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| Reply by: Denny at Nov 12, '07 19:30 | |
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| Your opinion on this matter is very much appreciated. You all have your points and I'm happy to see that this is turning out to be a good conversation. | |
| Reply by: Manila` at Nov 13, '07 01:56 | |
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maybe things like this get debated to death over and over again for the same reasons stated here. People get abused and shit on for trying to do something and create activity.I am of the thinking that if they choose a known topic and get attacked like they are public enemy number one.Why in hell would they work thier ass off and stress thier skills to the max just to have some of these assholes tear them apart as a result. Crewleaders saying you have to be vocal and in the streets to rank? Maybe they should DEMOTE those who publicly tear people apart for trying to do something.That would be far better in my opinion. |
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| Reply by: Iron_Lung at Nov 13, '07 06:21 | |
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The man listens and chuckles to himself. He waits for his time to speak before beginning. You can always tell when someone want's promoting. They come out into the streets. The donations and constant headquarters drug price spamming jus't wont cut it. The reason you havn't spoke before now, like many others, is not because you aren't vocal or quite timid. It's because that finally illustrious rank of mademan is eluding you and thus you feel you must speak in the streets in a last ditch attempt to be seen by your crewleader and thus keep ranking nice and efficiently and on time. Maybe that's why people are too quick to shoot down bad arguments. Because they are bad and the speaker has only thrown one together in a matter of moments to try and gain the next rank. Ever thought of it that way? I don't want hundreds of Wiseguys spammming up these oh so glorious streets with utter crap so they can be promoted even thought they have made the slightest effort to become active in the streets before that point. Sighh The man departs through the crowd amidst a series of shock horror faces are the blindly obvious truth is finnally revealed to the naive amongst him. |
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| Reply by: Hixxy at Nov 13, '07 07:24 | |
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My point is proven right there by a fellow crew member to boot....wow! makes me ponder what is worse,having these supposed Bold suit seekers suddenly speaking alot on all topics under the sun. Or..... having these other people suddnely appear out of nowhere to do nothing but make a complaint and bitch about something. either way consistancy will always show the true colors of those involved. |
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| Reply by: Iron_Lung at Nov 13, '07 10:14 | |
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Even though that may be true at certain times, Hixxy, it's no reason to be a cunt and ruin an otherwise decent topic of conversation. This speech, for example, has brought up good ideas like the one from that attractive lady over there. I would also say that the majority of the time you see rude interveners in speeches it isn't a Wiseguy giving the speech, but instead someone ranked below Goomba who just wants to participate in street activity but doesn't have the foggiest clue what is expected in terms of quality. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be a dick to mafiosi running the streets. Them making efforts at livening up the streets isn't one of them. |
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| Reply by: maxwell at Nov 13, '07 10:31 | |
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A few points I would like to make here... 1. A lot of the discussion topics that these people choose have been done into the ground already. Looking around the streets, you can see several animated conversations already taking place about the leaders being subpar, someone should get authed/someone shouldn't get authed, why do rogues do what they do, etc. In this case, it is better to join in that discussion, rather than start a new one. Or, if you have nothing interesting to add, not join in that discussion. Which brings me to my next point... 2. Street ranting isn't always a good thing for you. As the saying goes, "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." There are lots of smart, witty, linguistically gifed mafiosi on the streets. These people should spend a lot of time on the streets, as it gives them the best chance to succeed. However, if your IQ is below room temperature and you can't string two sentences together, you are perhaps better off spending your time in other ways. Thank you for listening. |
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| Reply by: TylerDurden at Nov 13, '07 10:56 | |
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Meow maxwell. Claws away please. I never commented on thoes below the rank of Wiseguy and i never put down the current speaker, if so, please show me where. I merely stated that most people do create utterly pointless, utterly bad, in some cases the said discussion happened like a day earlier, just so they can get promoted. One person who spoke before me even said that his crewleader said they have to be active to get promoted. What a daft rule to be honest. Sure enough be active, but don't tell them. Sheesh. When there smart enough to realise they should be active in street discussions they are smart enough to get the fucking promotion, otherwise let the bastard rot at earner. Anyways. I made a judgement on what i have seen/noticed and thus given an opinion. Or are opinions in the streets not allowed under these regimes. My bad. |
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| Reply by: Hixxy at Nov 13, '07 11:42 | |
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One other thing worth noting. Hixxy, you stated that a lot of people (or one in particular) are only posting because they want to get promoted. That people wait until Wise Guy to start posting for this reason. I see another reason however. I am eligible for Wise Guy tonight, and I haven't been too active in the streets up until this point. While this has a little to do with not having too much to add to a few conversations, and a little to do with going on vacation this past weekend, the main reason for this has been money. Rather than coming out here right away, I've been hard at work stashing away a nest egg. I know I'm not the only one who has done that. At some point, you reach a comfort level money-wise, and you can start relaxing the petties and felonies in favor of some creative discourse. Of course, I'm sure there are people out there who are only posting for the promotion and the name recognition. But that always has been, and always will be the case. This world isn't perfect. |
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| Reply by: TylerDurden at Nov 13, '07 11:55 | |
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I see what you are saying but for me it leads into a wider point. The criminals around here are the same tired old family lines often pursuing the same tired old agendas that Grand Pappy whoever pursued. The "government" around here represents something of an old boys club and sometimes you have to wish that they would take a step back and only interfere when they have someone to arrest, rather than engaging in daily guffawing, back-slapping, flattery and the general all-round bullshit that often seems to encompass their day. This may seem harsh but sometimes you gotta be in order to get your point across. If there wasn't such an old-boy network, heavily weighted with the accompanying egoes, perhaps Johnny Hood who thinks he's Jesus Christ Superstar because he can write a few witty sentences wouldn't feel so inclinded to pander to the amusement of such egoes, or even think about a position where he looks to increase his own prestige through the putting down of others. For all the stuff you might have done in the past, whats done is done. The goal posts around here change often enough that no-one can really say they are anything more than a shot away from being dead over and over again, bar the odd exceptions. Generally if you are all that, you appreciate this fact. |
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| Reply by: Rhydian-Roberts at Nov 13, '07 12:04 | |
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Don't get so defensive, Hixxy. I never said you did either of those things. I was making general observations. My claws weren't out, either. When they come out, you'll know it. There won't be a shadow of a doubt in your mind. |
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| Reply by: maxwell at Nov 13, '07 13:12 | |
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