Earlier that day, RedHood sat in one of LA's popular beach front Cafe's. It had become a morning tradition to sit and drink some coffee, tea or a cocktail. Really whichever suited her need for that day - or how the night before had played out. Before she even sat down all seven cities newspapers would be stacked at her usual table (this week's table anyway, she liked to keep the numerous cafe's on their toes). Red flipped through them carelessly, only to stop and read when something caught her eye. The news was usually bogged down with someone or another tasteless opinion, money or power issue. One could get a better read through word of mouth on the streets.

Really, what she enjoyed most about this tradition was the Obits section of each paper. It was like Christmas morning every time Red was able to embrace her morbid side, excitement bubbled up in her stomach and she couldn't wait to unwrap that section of the paper to see what presented itself today. RedHood had woken up extra excited this particular morning because of some things that happened last night.

One of mob boss TM's had been murdered in his or her sleep. Red assumed it was a her, but she didn't want to make an ass out of herself by assuming. Either way, AijinEroticA was murdered and a hunt had been announced to find out whoever the murderer was. Before Red had turned in for the night the mystery had been solved and as she scrolled her finger down Detroit's obits a smile crawled upon her lips as she saw Valdemar's name in print.

The night before, when Red had heard the news that a boss from one of Detroit's families decided to get a little cocky and take out one of New York's members. So what if Ms. (or Mr.) EroticA may have been a little lazy. She (he) may have strayed into the wrong part of town, passed out at the wrong time, but really that doesn't mean she (he) needed or deserved a bullet to the head. Yes, with the smile Red beamed while sipping her morning cocktail may have been seen as a little disrespectful - well it was pretty damn disrespectful of Valdemar to take little ol' EroticA away from us. An eye for an eye one may say.

Either way, Red got on with her day, flying all around the country selling drugs, breaking a few fella's out of jail, terrorizing children and robbing a few old ladies of their purses. Small time crimes, but some things Red liked to slum it up - keep things interesting. And things did become interesting when she found herself in Detroit, bored and curious with time to kill.

Somehow she ended up at Valdemar's funeral. She slid in the back row and watched family members and friends approach the casket and say their goodbyes. Red wasn't expecting a big show or anything, it was just another boss and even that, when it all gets boiled down at the end, just another gangster. She stuck around longer then usual, yes Red visited funerals often. Like people visited the show house for entertainment, Red would visit the funeral home. This wouldn't surprise you if you had ever the chance to see her devilish smile, but she didn't come out much.

Just as she was getting up to leave, she was very surprised to see a parade of big men, undoubtably body guards. Someone important was coming to this funeral. Excitement rushed through her gut and goose bumps of joy, not nervousness or fear, prickled her skin. It was definitely someone important with all the protection. Maybe it was TM coming to "respectfully" show Valdemar the way to hellllllven. Or maybe it was Valdemar's mob boss Return of Ghost to say a few nice words through gritted teeth because he was in front of god, but the true thoughts in his head were to slam the casket down and spit on the grave for disgracing his family, disrespecting him and making him look like a fool for promoting him to made man and beyond.

Red nodded at this thought, she'd be pretty pissed as well. But as Return of Ghost approached the casket and said his peace Red couldn't believe it! She just couldn't believe what he said. His words spun through her head. "good man" "didn't deserve to die". What! Was he crazy? She didn't make a scene, but she wanted to. This was absurd. Valdemar had completely disgraced his family and specially his boss who trusted him and welcomed him into the family in the first place and was now, continuing to welcome his son back into the family.

Red got up firmly and walked out of the church, she stopped in a back alley to pick up a load of drugs before catching a flight out of the city. She had seen enough, but as the drug dealer started to small talk she had to confess to someone.

It was an outrage! You should have seen it. It was like Valdemar should have won a reward for doing such a horrible and shameful thing.

The dealer looked at her as if she had just lost all her marbles. Well wouldn't he be surprised, she had lost all her marbles years ago. Red was a little cooky in the head.

I mean, I don't play for either team so it shouldn't really matter to me, but at one point New York was my home - I grew up there and it's like a spat in the face for Return of Ghost to kill his member, he would have kept him alive if there wasn't ThomasRourke breathing down his neck, but there was so Ghost was forced to do something he really didn't want to do. Is that Ghost guy nuts?!? Why doesn't Ghost just get down on the ground and become a door mat.

She just kept going, there was no stop to this rant and the dealer would just have to deal, worried what the crazy lady would do if he tried to escape.

I think you're missing what I'm saying, I'll explain it in simple terms.

Valdemar got cocky and ahead of himself and tried to get away with murder. Yeah, we are criminals and criminals don't follow rules, but we do follow criminal rules. Valdemar broke the criminal rule and completely dishonored his family and mob boss. We caught him though, or someone did and now he's dead, but what really gets my socks off is that Ghost was so cool about it. So okay with his members disgracing him, Detroit. Basically he gave the green light to anyone else in his family to disrespect him.

I've seen people killed for talking like that in a rogue's funeral. What's the difference here?

I've seen crew leaders die for such antics that their members play out. This could have been one of them and lets not even get into the respect part. Well lets actually, how can you respect a man that put himself in front of his family. Which am I talking about? You might ask.

She shook her head.

I don't even know. Obviously Valdemar made his boss look like a fool by shooting at a sponsored, but then Ghost made himself look like a fool by saying what he said at the funeral. Why would you want someone's next of kin in your family? Wouldn't you just want nothing to do with them ever again.

Red seemed satisfied at this, she bit the inside of her cheek for a little bit and then looked at the dealer.

Obviously I'm a little passionate about this and I've voiced my opinion on the subject. But this isn't the first time I've seen this happen. The victim soon forgotten, but the murderer praised because of his coffee shop connections. Because yes, he may have been a good member to the family, but really, if that were true he would have never made that decision.

Tell me your opinion on this Mr. quiet face over there. How do you feel about Crew Leaders going on and on about how great their dead family members had been even though they had died because they weren't so great to the family? When did doing something wrong get a pat on the back and a bazillion body guards hired for the next of kin for doing something so dishonorable for the family?

And while you chew on that, why don't you also take a bite of this. Is it alright for crew leaders to be disrespectful to the members they have personally placed in a casket? Should we force the crew leader to roll over and take it up the bum because the community thinks grave pissing is bad on all counts?

Can you really respect a crew leader that is so blinded by his coffee shop acquaintances and thinks the world of the member that completely put his crew, his family in jeopardy?

For dessert. How would you feel if you were the crew leader who lost the member because some annoying twat thought he or she could get away with picking off your sleeping family - how would you feel about the twat's crew leader praising the twat at his funeral?

I think that the way Ghost spoke was meant in an entirely different way then you have presented it. Taking bits and pieces out of sentences can make the general meaning of what was said become lost. I'm sure Ghost is well aware that any member of his doing such a thing deserves to die but that does not mean he is not sad to see it happen.

I'm not sure exactly why this concerns Los Angeles.  Furthermore, despite being name-dropped, I had no knowledge of this situation.  I think the fact that I didn't have to even hear about it or raise a finger says a lot about Return of Ghost's efficiency in handling the situation.

I think the point of this speech is good, I just think this whole thing would be better suited for a situation that wasn't handled as well as this one.  I believe that it would be kind of like making a speech about how bad my gun is when I shot all the Godfathers in the last war. 

I'm sorry this was written RedHood...for the assumptions and insults were not needed.

The unfortunate accident of AijinEroticA's death was not, as you claim so boldly, a premeditated murder nor was it a cocky attempt on my father's part to add to his list of kills. I'll have you know I greatly respect all rules and know what the exact meaning of the word respect is. Something you fail to grasp by this speech...

My father was not hunted down by anyone as he gave himself up to his crew leader when he realized his mistake. I plan on apologizing to TM on my father's behalf for the incident.

I do think you should show more care in your words toward my crew leader though.

While I was not aware of the situation you spoke about at length, I think funerals should be a place where someone is spoken of in the best light. We're all bad people here, but going to someone's funeral and bringing up all the bad things is not appropriate.

I've often been disgusted recently by some of the words spoken at funerals in a practice that's become known as grave-pissing. You may say that it's okay for a crew leader to speak poorly of a man that he had killed, but I believe that should have been reserved for the dead's ears only. We are given the opportunity to speak with a person before putting a bullet between his eyes, and that is where words like that belong--not before God, not before the deceased's family and friends.

I know it may seem sappy, but in the case of funerals, if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all. Don't like the guy? Don't attend the funeral.

Additionally, I don't think it's correct to assume that the person in question's son is going to make the same mistakes as his father. People learn. Unless the bloodline becomes poisoned by repeated family members of low caliber, give the next of kin a chance to make himself.

Matt, you said all that really needs to be said about respect at funerals, but this conversation is about the flip side of it - Speaking WELL of the deceased.

A funeral is a place to grieve the loss of a loved one. It is not a social gathering. It is not a place to get in a final spiteful word. Therefore, anything I would overhear at a funeral I would respect as the sentiments of the speaker. Now, I may keep it in the back of my head for future reference, just to know the mindframe of the people I am dealing with, but I would never judge someone for how they pay their respects to someone.

In some cases, a funeral should just be left alone. When a mobster has disgraced his family, I would be insulted if any member of the disgraced family attended the funeral. Not for what they SAID at the funeral, just for the fact that they were there. I know that the status quo has a high tolerance for funeral disrespect, but I am a traditional mobster who believes that men of honor should know how to conduct themselves with dignity in a House of God. Therefore, the best way to show disdain for a dead person is to not show up to pay respects. If someone DOES show up to pay respects to someone who I do not feel is worthy of respect, that is their prerogative. I may think them a fool in future dealings, but I would not take any direct action against them in most circumstances.

What I honestly fail to see is how this is different than any other occurrence on these here Streets. Mobster A aspires to be a hitman. Mobster A makes a list of people he considers to be sleeping bums around the various cities. Mobster A shoots Mobster B, who just so happens to be sponsored by Crewleader B. Crewleader B tells Crewleader A about Mobster A's actions, Mobster A dies.

Does this make them any less of a businessman because they took the wrong shot? I'd wager to say that maybe they have a lack of expertise in the hit man category, but it's a mistake I've seen various people- of low standing and high standing in this world- make over and over. This happens on a weekly basis.

I believe what we need to do, in order to get down to brass tacks on this, is define "disgracing a family". Was Valdemar a disgrace to Detroit because he shot the wrong gangster? God no. He is a man that I held in high regard. He was an integral cog in my city machine, was flawless in his business dealings- and he simply took the wrong shot. That's all. He turned himself into his Boss by leaving him a note of correspondence and awaited his execution like an honorable man. He didn't buy out, he didn't call names or put up a fuss in the Streets like many other young mobsters we see these days. The man had enough respect for his family and his station within it that he could admit to his faults and be absolved of his sins before death.

So like Ghost's 'foolish' (as they were called) sentiments at the funeral stated: I for one would be honored to have his next of kin join my city. Obviously it's a bloodline made of integrity, and that is simply something that is hard to find these days.

People sending off someone like that with well wishings at a funeral doesn't grate my nerves. If someone were, however, to come to the Streets and insult a neighboring city's Godfather, or to shoot at a Bold, then no. I would not attend that person's funeral. That in my opinion is someone who has disgraced the family and city.

Mr Ox, I am fully aware of the conversation's intent. Since I was not involved in the event discussed here, I could not assume that this is a complete account and had no comment on it. I chose instead to answer some of Red's questions. I thought I had made that known, but I may have not spoken as clearly as I would have liked.

Nonetheless, you and Godmother Marietta have made very valid arguments. I think we agree that the deceased should be treated with respect, regardless of the circumstances of their death and however much we think ill of them. As I mentioned earlier, if you don't have anything good to say of the deceased, skip the funeral. Godmother Marietta illustrated perfectly an instance in which it would be inappropriate to praise someone at a funeral, but if the deceased hasn't truly "disgraced the family" (to use her words), then there's nothing wrong with attending the funeral and mourning the man's death. Perhaps it'd be best, however, to be careful of your words.

"hmm the obits is a place for anyone to say there peace what ever that may be remains to permanent, respected left to just that, as what Ghost as said there, is his peace there fore being there to stay not brought up in the streets or for that matter what ever anyone has said"

"He owned up to his mistake took his punishment with out hesitation that is honorable"

Recro puts his hat back on, continues on his walk

I'm probably too tired to put this clearly, but Matt Haas and my dear RHM Butt Ox are both mistaken to an extent.  Funeral behavior can be frowned upon pretty heavily.  There are certain "rules" that we have established amongst ourselves on what is acceptable and what is not acceptable... Don't "gravepiss", don't laud a rogue, don't speak too highly of dead members that have made mistakes.  I generally don't care too much about what I say at funerals, because I am above the law.  Yes, I said it.  Aurora, Marietta, Premier, and myself can essentially act however we want because we have the power.  That's not to say we abuse it, but let's face facts, Godfathers are a pain in the ass to kill... It takes a long time to get Godfather... Therefore, they generally enjoy a safety about what they can say and do that others cannot.  We don't have a lot of perks or fancy toys, but that is one thing we do have.  When you are a Godfather you have the official voice over a city, and I re-iterate, you can do what you please 99% of the time without repercussion. 

That whole respect the dead thing in front of God works for about 99% of the people here, because they know there can be consequences to what they say.  However, this isn't a business of fairness, this is a business of vice, sin, and corruption, and I don't believe in there being black and white rules.  I believe in there being consequences in the actions people take if someone is so inclined to try to enforce them.  If you're willing to accept what can happen to you in any area of the business we conduct by what you do and how you portray yourself, then you are free to do whatever you please.

That's probably very rambly, but the long and short of it is anyone can do exactly what they please here, they just have to be prepared for what might happen to them in return.  Being a Godfather puts you above the law most of the time, so I can enjoy the luxury of funeral crashing if I so chose.  I also realize in doing so, I would have to accept that tomorrow or six months from now someone could come knocking on my door to kill me for it.  That's what this life is  though, no one is ever completely innocent.  However, sometimes rank just trumps the accepted norm. 

TM stands amongst the crowd listening to everyone speak. patiently waiting his turn

I would like to note that Theodoric has apologized for his father's actions. And I hold no grudge because it was as he said a mistake. A mistake everyone here has made once in there lifetime. A mistake I and I'm sure the best of us have made. It was no premeditated murder. A dishonor Vlademar was not.

As for the issue of Return_of_Ghost's post I see nothing wrong with it. A crew leader saddened by the loss of one of his high rankers, that's it. I do not see it as selfish, or something that shakes the very foundation of this world in which it is made out to be. As for what I have to say to Return_of_Ghost's and Detroit. Thank you for handling the issue with speed and the most care. 


As far as it is between Return_of_Ghost's and myself, it has been resolved. I think there is no need for any other families to get involved. I know we all have opinions but something's are better left unsaid.

What a poor attempt at propaganda. Really poor. I've seen better spin from a broken washing machine for fuck's sake.

I think my esteemed Godfather summed it up fairly perfectly with the following statement: "I'm not sure exactly why this concerns Los Angeles."Obviously if I was him I'd have gone along the lines of "This does not concern Los Angeles", but I guess the point still stands. Seriously, what does an incident involving a family from the East Coast and a family from Michigan have to do with you over there on the other side of the country?

Not a lot. In fact, if I were to be brutally honest, I'd say your entire speech was an exercise in what I like to call 'stirring the shit', and you only actually addressed matters which pertained to those outside the cities involved (ie you) toward the very end of the speech. In fact, were I a wordlier man, I'd even go as far as to surmise the otherwise valid points you bring up (the gravepissing, lauding rogues, disrespect) were only ever brought up to give this shoddy smear campaign a thin veneer of respectability.

But what do I know? I'm just a Wise Guy!

Sorry, I'd like to add something to my former statement. Even though I don't really believe this should even be up for public digestion; it is, so I may as well give my two cents on the issue that seems to have you so 'heated'.

I understand that the measure of people is that they're only as good as the last shit thing they did, but is a man who lived a life of loyalty and respectability deserving of such vilification due to an uncharactaristic mistake? You may believe so, I believe the mistake itself which will colour his reputation anyway is enough of a punishment, so why is a quiet respect and celebration of someone's life not in order?

To suggest we must not speak a good word about a man who only made one mistake in an otherwise distinguished career is to suggest we dub a saint the rapist who donated to charity. An extreme example, but I'm just applying the same concepts.

But what do I know? I'm just a Wise Guy!

He stands at the back of the crowd with a hood covering his face.

As many have said before me: Valdemar made a mistake yes, and he knew it. He didn't run or hide, he stood and took the consequences. Thus making him respectable.

In Valdemar's lifetime, The good out weighed the bad and obviously you didn't know him at all, Yet you still stand tall and try pass judgment on him. And who are you to do so?

The only disrespect I see is YOU insulting Ghost, and the late Vald's memory, and getting into affairs that do not concern you.

And next time before you try to pass judgment on others, try take a look in the mirror. Nobodies perfect.

he turns and walks away towards the HQ.

Whilst I find it baffling the second in command of one of the most powerful organizations in the Cities has chosen to bring this to the streets in the manner they have, it has raised some issues with me.

The statements made by RedHood have been pretty much addressed by those who are fully in possession of the facts and I'm in no position nor have any inclination to disagree with what seemingly occurred. As someone stated earlier, you would be surprised just how often this has happened and even the more famous bloodlines have made the same mistake.

Holding my hands up for a moment, an ancestor of mine made the same mistake in his youth; long ago back in a different time. What worries me more than anything is the haste with which everyone condemned this gentleman to death. For the record, my ancestor, a Made Man was not killed for his error and he held his hands up when he realised the mistake, much as Valdemar has seemingly done.

I would suggest the majority of the discussions taking place in our streets today will mention rank, the importance of rank and the responsibilities and benefits that come with it. Even the Godfather of New York has mentioned it prior to me.

Hence my distaste when I see a well known, trusted mobster from Detroit, a Boss no less, gunned down for a Gangster in the employ of TM? I think some serious evaluation is required here. A Gangster is little more than a nobody, a fresh face with very few contacts, working for someone higher within the organization, receives little financial reward and trusted to undertake virtually nothing. This is the bottom rung. A Boss on the other hand, is someone who has taken their oaths, proven themselves capable and trustworthy. From the accounts before my own, the particular Boss was an exemplar member of his organization and an asset to this thing of ours. This is someone trusted with the rank of a leader and has demonstrated their worth.

I don't know when the shift occurred that the infraction for every rule should be the death penalty.  I could probably trace it back if I had the time or the belief that finger pointing would achieve anything, but it won't. What I would prefer to do is examine this situation and its outcomes. I intend no disrespect to those involved or really thought you would have acted differently, such is the precedent around here.

Anyway, Valdemar is dead. Has TM been compensated any further for the loss of his Gangster by the death of a well known Boss? I doubt it. All that has been achieved is a Boss has died. The next of kin of the Gangster he killed is in no better position, their parent is still dead.  Justice here doesn't have to be and shouldn't have to be an eye for an eye in every circumstance.

If this Boss has cultivated contacts and judging from the list of speakers commenting on this, I would gather he has and they are fairly prestigious contacts at that. Therefore by utilising his own position and these contacts, correctly compensating the TM organization and the next of kin mistakenly gunned down, would surely be to the betterment of everyone involved? TM is compensated for the mistake made by Valdemar and those under his protection know that their Boss is respected. The crazily named Gangster's children are compensated by Valdemir. They are now stronger and likely far more well known to more influential members in our Cities than they ever would have been. Detroit does not lose a Boss who from the account of GodMother Marietta was "an integral cog" in the Detroit setup. Valdemar learns his lesson through the people he is now indebted to, the favours he owes and the likely financial compensation he has awarded. Perhaps most importantly of all the high profile execution of a Boss doesn't make the papers and draw heat on all of us. A demotion I could probably understand to emphasise the point, but any more than that is more than a little extreme.

Perhaps it is time we actually stopped paying lip service to the importance of rank and actually consider the importance of rank. A Made Man is not the same as a Gangster and a Boss certainly isn't. The only possible benefit that was missed out on was whoever lost a juicy Boss kill, which shouldn't have factored into the equation anyway.

I know I've slightly deviated from the intention of the discussion, but maybe that is best for everyone.

~T~