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| Character Specialization | Started by: Bernard_Lehman on May 26, '15 17:29 |
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I think players should be able to specialize their character. I don't think there's much to distinguish players apart from each other at this point (not to say that it's better or worse than any other time): there's earners, rankers, leaders, hitters, speakers, etc. But none of these are exclusive or restrictive, so in most cases you get the hardcore players reaping the gains of every character archetype available (by earning, hitting, picking pockets, ranking, and posting for vision), while players with less time are forced to simply be inferior players with no means of making up for that. It makes sense; players with fewer resources (time) will have inferior characters. But what if we could make it a choice: be a jack-of-all-trades or a specialist? The intention of this suggestion is to provide some distinction between players (and indirectly, crews). Presently, you're more defined by your activity level than by any decisions you make as a player. I'll defend this observation if challenged, but I'll continue assuming it's true. So if we were to implement a system that incorporated how specialized an individual was, you could have much more distinct crews, subcrews, and players. And I think it would make the game much more interesting. Specialization First, in terms of the game, what is the specialization? Well, think of it like a proficiency bonus. If you specialize in vision, you'll have a bonus when you grab locals and interpret witness statements. If you specialize in earning, you'll make bonus cash on crimes and drug deals. If you specialize in defense, you'll have a proficiency against attacks (I think this one may already be in place). The specialization functions as a bonus when trying to do something that requires the skill you're proficient in. Second, what determines a player's specialization? Each player has a proficiency in all the skills based on their registration answers and the things they've done so far. The player's specialty is the skill in which they have the highest proficiency, and the bonus from that proficiency is based on how much greater their specialty skill is than all the others. So hitmen that specialize profusely in hitting will have a bigger bonus that hitmen who also jailbreak, post for vision, etc. So naturally, as you train your gun it'll get stronger, but the specialty bonus will only grow if you train your gun without training one of your other skills. Third, how does it change? By playing the game. Everything you do in the game (pickpocket, post, kill, earn, etc.) will affect your proficiency in those skills, and therefore your specialty and the bonus from that specialty. Proficiency Bonuses In my mind, there are two ways of doing this. One is to incorporate specialties into existing features, the other is to create new features to accommodate the specialties. I think the best answer is a mix of both, because some skills won't have any means of becoming a specialty or increasing the bonus of that specialty:
Additional Info Everyone only gets a single specialty at a time, and everyone has a specialty. Specialties and proficiency bonuses would update at 00:00 game-time. This prevents flip-flopping quickly between specialties to take advantage of multiple specialties. The new crime for increasing the stealth proficiency (which is boosted by stealth answers): Break-In. You use a 30-minute felony timer, 60-minute wack timer, and 60-minute travel timer (all must be open) in exchange for $10,000 - $50,000 and a small increase in your stealth specialty. THIS DOES NOT TRAIN STEALTH. This is just the way to get the stealth bonus as your specialty. I think a player's specialty should be public on the profile, but not any proficiency numbers. On the player's profile management page, I think there should be an ordered list of the player's proficiency in each skill that updates at 00:00 so the player can see what he needs to work on to get it set as his specialty. This way specialty can be understood/manipulated (in the same way that someone could look at themselves and say "I think I'm good at ______" but still remain quantitatively unknown. |
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I love your enthusiasm but I love this game just the way it is. This is a one of a kind game and the only mafia game I've ever been able to dedicate countless hours into because of how great it is. |
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| Reply by: RemusLupin at May 26, '15 17:39 | |
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What about this change worries you, RemusLupin? |
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| Reply by: Bernard_Lehman at May 26, '15 17:41 | |
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I'm the type of person that doesn't like change in general, dealing with small change gradually over time isn't so bad, but huge change can be scary.
The two things that stand out in general would be the WACK and the STEALTH proficiency. Having an increased % in wack score is super huge for Wack, and Not having a w/s go out due to Stealth proficiency is a huge deal.
Both of those two things would change the game far too much in my opinion. You talk about stability of the game in your Fruits of Stability post but helping ppl grow a faster gun to kill people and having the ability to shoot someone with no repercussions due to lack of a w/s will cause even more instability. |
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| Reply by: RemusLupin at May 26, '15 17:59 | |
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Before I respond to your post, I do want to lay out that my character, Bernard Lehman, and me, the player, are two separate things. The things I want as a player and the things my character wants are different. Plus, I don't think these changes would necessarily bring instability that isn't already possible now. While I agree that having a % increase in wackstat is "super huge," the percentages are both negotiable and can only be accomplished at the expense of other skills. You'd have to give up jailing, picking pockets, or other activities in order to reach a really effective bonus. And at that point I think the trade-off is worth it; you've given up money and experience in exchange for a particularly potent gun. Additionally, I'd like to mention that skill strength are separate from proficiency. You can train all of your skills and have a dismal specialty bonus, or you can specialize in one skill and get the rewards of foregoing training your other skills. That's why I've provided such substantial bonuses. As for stealth, you'd have to train your proficiency in stealth in addition to training wack, which would be exceptionally difficult and you cannot reap the benefits of both specialties. If you have a strong gun and are improving stealth proficiency, it will be more difficult than if you had an untrained gun. Therefore, I think the trade-off is valid; it takes tremendous work and time, you have to really give up just about everything else, and you still only have a chance of perfect stealth in your attack. When Izzy introduced MIAs, it provided the chance to grow a faster gun. Did it lead to tremendous instability? No. When we brought in Durdens, guns could grow even faster. Are we falling apart at the seams? No. And unlike those features, this suggestion remains in the bounds of realism and is based on character decision-making rather than spending credits. I also disagree that shooting someone without a W/S has "no consequences". I recall a certain Chicago leader dying to a shot that effectively "had no W/S", and the consequences nearly leveled the city. I think the possibility of stealth forces leaders and players to solve problems without the game spoon-feeding them the answers. The more decisions players have to make, the better. That's what RPGs are all about. I think the best part of this is that you can build a unique, original character now without any form of "RP-ing". And you can try out different things, and explore different specialties, etc. and be rewarded for making decisions instead of just doing everything. |
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| Reply by: Bernard_Lehman at May 26, '15 18:17 | |
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A really well crafted suggestion. I understand your logic, as the notion of the specialization you have meticulously outlined is often found in tactical role-playing games (Fallout & Shadowrun series – for example).
Skill points can be distributed evenly, so that you are a jack of all trades, but in order to be a master of one it’s necessary to sacrifice certain skills. The concept is one I favour, but in regards to the impact on MR, I’m really undecided whether the changes you have proposed would go too far in altering the formula of this long standing game.
The start-up roll skills are quite negligible for the most part (aside from stealth, I’d say), as they generally only provide a ‘head start’ and a competent grounding. Due to the longevity of accounts and the stability of cities, start-up skills become even less vital as there is the potential to become a master of almost all trades – if you have the time and financial resources. Anyway, I don’t want to go off on a tangent or repeat points that have already made.
<font color="rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)">I wanted to add that I have a vague memory that a </font>relevant<font color="rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)"> feature was already in development. I believe the idea was that as a player progressed in rank, they would be provided with a multiple choice question (similar in vein to the traditional start-up questions). Players would then gain a boost in the particular skill that reflected their answer. Considering players would have potentially ten opportunities to tailor their character further, it would appear to be a step in the right direction?</font> |
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| Reply by: Kazimir at May 27, '15 00:54 | |
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Truly, my primary concern in suggesting this is that it would be "too much of a change" from the game. And I can't really tell you whether it is or isn't too much of a change as that's entirely the perception of the players. I think this really only opens up a new way to play the game and in no way closes or restricts the way it's been done so far. What I see right now is a game that was originally built on decision-making and social strategy. And in a few ways, it's still that same game except we really only see decision-making and strategy at the highest levels, leaving all but the upper echelon to simply wait and see. Because of this, I think, a number of features have been slowly introduced to either "speed up" the game or attempt to make it more interesting. The introduction of MIAs, Durdens (and then letting Durdens shoot people on the hitlist), districts, and CAs all incrementally made things bigger and faster without really providing any additional decisions to be made. If you have the credits and the time, you'll buy a CA. And even if you die, you still get cash from it. Very few of the features I've seen actually contribute to any practical decision-making on the part of the whole userbase. This suggestion would accomplish a few things. One, players can build and train and direct their character in an original way based on what they want to do. Sure, players can do that now, but generally the only limiting factor is time, and if enough time is available, players will have a high rank, high kill count, and be good earners. The only decision to be made is whether or not you're playing. Two, crews can specialize, organize, and differentiate themselves in meaningful ways. A crew with a ton of crime specialists will out-earn a crew with a ton of hitters every time. And I think that promotes a better dynamic than simply letting the crew with the most time and credits win. Three, you get RP without RPing. Players can actually play a special and original role that they can latch on to and appreciate without even approaching the forums. And if they don't like it, they can change or start over and do something completely different. I don't want to change things for the sake of changing things, but I also don't want to resist change because we don't like change. I think we have implemented too many features trying to get players to make meaningful decisions and instead should just turn existing features into meaningful decisions rather than click-monkeys. If every felony or kill had a real effect on your character's development, you wouldn't just refresh your timer day-in and day-out; you'd have a strategy and a plan for reaping the bonuses of that specialization. |
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| Reply by: Bernard_Lehman at May 27, '15 01:47 | |
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