I have mulled over this subject for many a minute during my stay upon these shores. Some people may think it is blindingly obvious either way but I'm still undecided.

There are the obvious rewards for using it such as faster communication to other families, a place to meet up for war time but I think there are many ways in which it holds back the progression of this world. Now, I am not trying to be pedantic here but everyone has a certain bunch of friends who they hang out with each and every time they visit this place. There is no use in denying this as 99.9% of the population is guilty of it. I have absolutely no problems with this as regards to friends giving friends power as I do believe this is how the world should work as in real life, a Don's son may very well be showered with riches and be given a "free pass" to getting their own family. Their father lay down the groundwork, put in relentless hours and worked his way up the respect ladder so why shouldn't the son reap the rewards of his father's graft? The problem is that when the new blood comes to these shores they find it hard to fit in. They join the game, click around a bit, find the chat channel, go join a few rooms and feel out of place. I know because I've been there. It is so hard to blend in with this society because everyone has known each other for so long.

It's like walking into a party that nobody invited you to and the music stops as you knock over a vase.

This is where I believe the coffeeshops are a hinderance because if there were no coffeeshops the people new to the game would feel like they were on a more level playing field. Plus, with no coffeeshops I believe people would be far more active and willing to respond to random mails from people they've never heard of. How many of you this past month have just read and not bothered replying to mails from people you dont know? I know when I frequented the chat feature I did this quite a lot. I also believe that the streets would have more variety to it and anyone new could easily spot a person/character they might get along with without even having to utter a word, thus giving them a reason to probe into this world further.

Just a thought. :)

Any opinions?

For the obvious reasons I think it's a brilliant and much needed part to the game. As you've already stated. War time.

However, for your next point I think it is down to the people themselves. I think the older players who already have their group of friends or clique would not reply to the newer players even if there was no IRC. Depending on what kind of people they are behind the screen. They could either be really fucking arrogant or just really not arsed.

But, you also get the more easy going of the bunch. I myself, will always reply to a mail. Even if I don't know the person. I might be a little colder and harder to like in my reply back sometimes but I will always say the least of "Hi, i'm Jono. How're you?". After a few mails is when you can determine whether or not this person is actually worth wasting any serious time on them.

I have an example too. It was not long a go when I was a leader under the name of Jonizzel. I got a mail from someone called chrisokeefe. At first I thought, well he's got no capitals in his name and little punctuation but I replied none the less. He became one of my best members under Jonizzel's Fort Izzel and we learnt a lot from each other. That guy these days is called RJFuller. One of Chicago's newest leader.

I might have dribbled on a bit there. I'm sure you understand my point though.

I blame the people. Not IRC. :-)

To answer your question flat out and get the answer out there- is IRC a help or a hindrance? I'll have to straight up give you Jono's answer.

It's not IRC. It's the people who can't tell how to separate the two that cause all the debate.

I don't think it's necessarily a "newer player/older player" problem either, as Jono mentioned. I just think a lot of people are used to moving in their packs like wolves and that's just how the game is played these days.

To be honest, however, I don't consider myself either. Am I an old old player? No. Have I been around longer than some of these new guys? Yeah. So of course I know a few people. I have my close close friends (all three of them)- but I don't stick to just that little group of friends to socialize with. I talk to anyone regardless of whether it's in PM or MM. I show no form of favoritism between the two. Just because you know me on IRC doesn't mean I'll make you a Captain in game- or just because you work for me in game doesn't mean I'll be your best friend on IRC.

To prove this, we can use a real example. I currently have five captains in game: Death-Knight, HydroPhonic, Return_of_Ghost, PedroRourke and Rhuarc. I can tell you honestly that out of those five, I only speak to about one of them daily on IRC. I do my best to be fair and reward the people who do well, who can get the job done, and who have proven themselves here on THIS screen, rather than on the screen next door (aka IRC).

I know IRC exists for chatting, and here I'm a Mob Boss. But just because I've been around for awhile, or just because I have a few friends who know me better than the rest of the population on IRC, doesn't mean I don't talk to people or hand out 'gimmies' to friends.

How many of you this past month have just read and not bothered replying to mails from people you dont know?

I answer all my mails, regardless of who they are from. Oh wait, that's a lie. I ignore all mail from EdwardRossi, as it's probably just crap anyway.

I have to say that I never felt out of place anywhere and this is only my second character and with the amount of people that died at the same time my first character did, there were no riches to shower me no matter how well I may or may not have done.

I have never ignored a well written mail, no matter how random. The only type of mail I ignore is spam... wait! Not even, because at least I tell them to fuck off with their outside garbage. If they respond with an apology then I know it was an honest mistake and explain the error of his ways.

I think in this case you were very honest but spoke a lot about yourself Nellerie. I think it's sad that anybody would plain ignore somebody else. I hope I never turn that. I may decide to RP that I tell him to fuck off as probably a Thug wouldn't approach a high ranking mobster anyway but I never ignore people.

I answer all of my mails too, untill they just get off the subject at hand or down right boring. Me personally have grown to dislike IRC recently. Maybe it's cause it's boring at the moment, maybe cause I don't feel like being bothered loading it and identifying. Only way I see it to an advantage is for family and war time. In time of war mail gets too hetic to answer. Well, for most people it does. I like the fact that family can hang there with eachother and goof off like it's a bar or whatnot. Alot easier to communicate, but does take away from the game.

I love IRC, and I shall never give it up!

Its a place where I can get to know my family very close and personal. Not just mailing them one at a time.

We can all meet up in one place and bond with each other, and I feel that makes families stronger.

I've made speeches in the past on the nature of IRC and specifically #divinelunacy and #mafia before it. The conduct in these channels used to be appalling and I could fully understand why any newcomer would be hesitant to type a single line in them. However, from what I can remember (not much of an IRC user these days) the conduct was far more strictly governed and provided someone wasn't deliberately being an idiot, even the most naive questions received answers and guidance.

As far as war organization goes, obviously it provides a much better medium for it than the game allows for. It just isn't practical to contest a war through the game alone when you can quickly assemble and strategize through IRC.

I also believe it does bring some members of a family a lot closer to their leader than they would ordinarily be. It seems obvious that it is far more difficult to shoot someone you spend several hours a day chatting with than someone who you don't. Very few people ignore IRC friendships entirely in the game and the majority of people who say they do probably still don't.

As one of the older players still here, I often find myself wanting to bang my head against the wall with some of the conduct of players within the game and the common misconceptions that should have been eradicated oh so long ago. I partly hold IRC responsible for this. Some shouldn't be entrusted with the positions they are. They don't know what they should be doing and more often than not they will just happen to be a less talented member of a certain group of IRC chums. That isn't a dig specifically at the current crop of leaders; it has been a repeating pattern.

These people are not capable of leading, but the IRC cultivated friendship leads to them gaining and often holding a position for a lengthy period. Had they not been an IRC besty, they would probably have been shot for their incompetence, but as I've already said, it is far more difficult to shoot someone you spend several hours a day chatting to. As a result, their failings are ignored and the fact that they don't themselves have the knowledge or really the ability to deliver what they are being entrusted to deliver, leads to a drop in standards. Their members aren't learning the lessons and gaining the know-how that they should be. I don't mean the big things that everyone picks up from one or two accounts; I'm referring to the things that make this actually a Mafia RPG.

Things for instance like the role of hitsquad leader. This is doled out to people who have literally no idea what they should be doing. This is a longstanding underappreciated role and has for a long time been neglected. It couldn't have been more perfectly illustrated to me than in the abysmal strategy adopted in the last war. I am willing to bet all of the HSL in those families interacted daily on IRC with their leaders in more than just a work capacity.

Is that solely the responsibility of IRC? Of course not. But it affects this game so much it is frightening. Even when people don't believe they are being influenced by IRC, they probably are. A simple one here is borrowing money. You drop into an IRC channel with a new name, look up your old mates and bingo you've got a couple of bodyguards no questions asked. If you had just rolled up to their game counterparts and asked in the same manner, you would not have had anywhere near the success. If everyone treated each new account as a new person, this game would be an unbelievably different place.

 I bet some people out there hate the ruling powers at the moment and I bet the majority of them have tried to join every family under the sun other than the ruling powers. This has probably culminated in the same bloodlines repeatedly being on opposing sides. There is no reason this should happen all the time. The smart move would be to join the winning side as how much do you actually know about the leader you're against? It isn't often that multi-character vendettas weren't started because of a killed account months in the past. Imagine where you could have been if you let that go, didn't continually whine and bitch on IRC about it and just signed up again as if you hadn't existed before.

But no, instead people's characters are outgrown by their IRC personas. They become typecast and in my opinion, deserve to be punished fully for the comments they make and how they behave on IRC. Threads have posed the question in the past "should you be punished for IRC actions?" and I find this baffling. It is so fucking easy to not be the same person in game as on IRC, but some are either unable or choose not to. Therefore I'd shoot you every time you mouthed off on IRC, because you're being the same and trying to hide behind a tired line.

Don't get me wrong here; I'm not saying I do all the things I think we should do. I use my IRC connections to my advantage, mainly because I'm sure the people who are against me will be using those same connections to my disadvantage. That's how it works. By embracing the Tallien name, I open myself up to all the problems Tallien IRC counterpart faces. Thus it would be extremely stupid not to embrace the same advantages this allows me to get.

I obviously knew Camazotz (RIP) long before these two sets of accounts we currently have. Therefore I was allowed to join Aurora's organization when I probably wouldn't have otherwise. I would like to think though, that it is the fact that I have the knowledge and ability to handle the responsibility of being LHM that made Aurora appoint me to this position, rather than the fact I usurp Camazotz a lot for the past 7 years.

I've gone off on a tangent throughout this fairly mammoth post now, but I'll address the title question to conclude. Is IRC a help? Yes it is. It allows the organization of wars, interaction and often causes a bound between members of organizations that ordinarily wouldn't exist. On a more individual level, yes it is. I've cultivated numerous friendships, relationships and mutually beneficial partnerships. I use this name and people know who I am and what I am capable of. It brings with it all my achievements and known abilities to everyone I deal with. Does that give me an advantage over someone on their first account? I would say it definitely does. Give them 7 years and they will probably be able to utilise the same benefits.

However, it isn't all plain sailing. IRC as a broader use can lead to sloppiness, laziness, mistaken appointments, tolerance where it isn't deserved and more. On an individual level, you'll doubtlessly have enemies who'll be looking to you because of what you've said or done in the past. You'll have burned bridges that will lead to your game account being passed over for someone less deserving. You'll be punished for things your IRC friends do and grouped together with anyone you talk to. This can culminate in a lot of starting over. Therefore, if you're on your first account now and thinking "I can't wait to be a name on IRC" it isn't all plain sailing and it probably isn't the best thing for the game either.

So, is it a help? Yes both to families and the individual. Is it a hindrance? Yes, both to families and the individual. Does it make the game any better? Probably not. Would I have stayed playing the game this long if I hadn't bothered going on IRC all that time ago? Probably not.

~T~

Eh, no, Tallien, you were made LHM because Belle felt sorry for you and the rest of us turned the position down.

Ignoring that though, great post, I agree with most of it. I've given my thoughts on IRC a million times and don't have the time or inclination to do so again, at the moment.

I've got to agree with hershey on this one

Argh I hate hitting tab and not getting the submit thing. Christ. Start all over. Anyway. People should use IRC in war other than that they should be there to talk about things like last nights race or football game. Not about things that are personal and things from the game that don't matter.

If someone doesn't know how to keep them separate then it causes conflicts and is best to keep one. I stick to the game. I can't use IRC if I wanted to, and I prefer it that way. If someone needs to get ahold of me, they can wait till I get around to it. I have MSN for the people I really want to talk to that play this game.

I think IRC brings many benefits to the game, and makes things a lot more streamlined. However people need to understand that IRC and in game are not the same thing at all :)

Always have been and Always will be a Hinderence.. I have finally come to the realization that IRC helps with nothing (besides war)

Its definitely a bit of both.

On one hand, it definitely brings people closer together. It allows people to have quick, real time conversations. You can network, get friends, work towards the top. Network.

On the other hand, people get to know each other too well. I believe it to be directly responsible for the loss of a lot of respect. People used to present themselves in a certain way, always remaining in character. This becomes more difficult as people tend to see the real you in IRC.

If people could differentiate between the real you and the game you it would be fine, sadly its not quite as easy as it sounds.

I agree with Absolut, IRC is very personal.  It may benefit, but I've always seen more playing around on it.