Before I begin, let me first state that in no way is this influenced by the thoughts of any particular godmother or godfather. I am speaking hypothetically, so please indulge me.

A recent conversation has me thinking: are godfathers above the law? Obviously, they are not above civil law; their crimes are certainly numerous enough to warrant their arrests. I'm clearly speaking of the metaphorical "laws" that we are always preaching from atop our soapboxes and within our job applications--just clarifying for the smartass out there. In case you've been living under a rock, I'm referring to family, honor, respect, and omerta.

Achieving such a position and a title in the criminal community is indeed an honor and a rarity, and it absolutely comes with privileges. I would think that reaching such heights would require a mastery of these laws--let's call them codes--as disrespectful cretins don't advance very far into our world. However, once one reaches the top, is it okay to shrug aside some of these codes from time to time? Who have they got to answer to?

I would personally argue that once you've reached a certain position, you've got more to lose and would work harder to keep your world balanced. I am not a godfather, so I wouldn't know what it's like to be at the very top, but I'm sure I'd be worried about keeping the power that I've got--I think that's why a lot of paranoia was bred by the who's who of the Mafia through the years. There's always someone wanting the power that they've got and everyone dies at one point or another. So, I'd say it's unwise for someone so precariously perched to be careless in their actions and to rest on their laurels. Of course they practically can't be touched by anyone but another godfather, and though becoming less so, it's still uncommon for godfathers to attack each other.

My concern in this area is that now that godfathers are "allowed" (for lack of a better word) to use the "I'm a godfather" clause, what's to stop them from using it to intervene in another city or to overstep their boundaries? Are there even boundaries anymore? If not, how will the future of our organization look? I am especially curious to hear what our current godfathers think.

*Listening to the speech he mills it over in his head before lighting up a cigarette and taking a drag. About to speak but stopping short as he takes another puff and finally responds.*

It's simple, there has always been 1 single equalizing force in this world. It's called the gun. I don't care who you are, what you think or how much money you have there is always a chance that your life can and will be snuffed out by the pull of the trigger and the flash of the barrel. I think the Godfathers/Mothers....let's just say the GodPeoples for short know this, hell, some of them wouldn't be where they are right now without knowing this simple fact first hand. Now, I don't think anything is necessarily stopping one GodPerson from stepping into another GodPersons territory or even a non-GodPersons territory and saying it's their right but should that happen and believe me, I do believe it will eventually, then the great equalizer will settle the dispute.

*Cocks his own handgun and slips it into his holster, padding it after he does* This...this is the only law that has ever truly mattered here.

We are talking about criminals here do you expect them to be uncorrupt? you do what you have to do to win your only friend is your gun and that is the only thing above the law

I'm glad you decided to refer to these things as "codes", rather than "laws", because "codes" is what they have been called for hundreds of years. I guess I'm that figurative smartass you referred to, because this has always done my head in. Not only do people around here not understand the nature of the business that they have given their lives to, but they can't even use the proper terminology. Worse yet, they use the terminology of the government authorities who we are directly opposed to.

PR_Rep - "Godpersons"? Really? Are we going to go there now? And I thought "Godmother" was bad. I guess I should have counted my blessings.

Anyhow, the central theme to any reply here should be the concept of POWER. With enough power, you can do whatever you want. Are you all not criminals? Why is it so hard to understand this? Can you not escape the restrictions that are imposed on law-abiding citizens and realize the nature of the world you live in? Sure, if you betray our codes of honor, others may not hold you in the highest regard, but as long as they are still bowing down to you, it may not matter to some. The bottom line is that to powerful are still on top.

To answer your questions about what a Godfather is "allowed" to do...

You can't be serious. I know you used the term "allowed" for lack of a better word, but still. You should understand by now the concept of power. There has NEVER been boundaries. I don't know what would give anyone the idea that there ARE boundaries except that they just can't seem to get their heads out of the realm of legitimate society and wrap their brains around the concept of power and the criminal underworld. We can do whatever we have the power to get away with. There are no fucking laws at all. We break laws. The only rules are those that a Boss sets for his underlings, and even those are subject only to the underling's loyalty and the ability (power) of the Boss to enforce them.

Let me give you an example from an ancestor of mine named Ulysses. Ulysses had the world by the balls for many months. He, too, ultimately met his demise, as all do. However, while he held power there was a group of mobsters from another city who conspired against him and the Librizzi family. Lacking power, they decided to exact their revenge by posting large hits on Ulysses' family. (sound familar, Odd?)

A Ha! The ultimate strategy! Anonymous hits, not a damn thing the old pig can do about it, right? RIGHT? Wrong. The narrow thinking of Ulysses' adversaries made them believe that Ulysses had to operate within the confines of the accepted "rules of society". I believe one of the best lessons ever taught in this world was taught on that day, for those who paid attention and learned from it. Not willing to waste a dime of his own family's money to remove the hits, Ulysses decreed that suspects would be killed until the hits were gone or bought off by the idiots who posted them. It only took one shot for this plan to be effective. Ulysses said the word, and Micky Finn dropped MagicMan, a Capo from LA, dead in his tracks. Suddenly the bad guys were panicking. "Oh noez! This is not going according to plan!". The actual guilty party, who was a friend of MagicMan, bought out of her family and went rogue, accepted total blame for posting the hits, and died soon after. The hits were gone, the threat was dispelled.

The lesson to be learned was that there is no framework of rules that Ulysses was bound to operate under. He had to power to start picking off anyone, from any family, whether they were responsible for the hits or not. The actual guilty party had to give herself up in order to save her friends and her family. Was it nice? No. Was it effective? Hell yeah.

What is to stop a Godfather from intervening in another city's business? Only the power of the city leader whose toes are getting stepped on. Like in my example, if the offending leader has the power, he can impose his will on everyone else and do as he wishes. If that Boss cannot stop the Godfather from intervening, then they are going to get walked on. Such is the nature of power. Such is the nature of the mafia. It's not a "nice" world we live in.

Don Ox, I'm pleased that you were able to take time out of your no doubt busy schedule to share with us another tale of Ulysses. Unfortunately, I think you may have missed my intent altogether during your vivid storytelling. I really should be more clear when I speak.

It's perfectly obvious that someone with enough power can get away with anything. My question, though, is Should they take advantage of that POWER and risk creating unnecessary enemies? Given enough time, everyone will die (as we've all pointed out), but by exerting your power carelessly, isn't one begging to be shot?

It's my opinion that if you let another godfather interfere in your city, then you deserve it. People that have reached this position should have big enough balls to keep that from happening. If they fold and "allow" (since we all love that word) their city to be taken from them--I wish I had a better hypothetical situation, but bear with me--they should be wiped out and better leadership should be established... or not... whatever the winning godfather desires. Still, if they choose to fight in but do not have the POWER necessary, it will build resentment from the masses and spawn that godfather's killer.

So, to maybe sum stuff up, instead of exercising the obvious POWER that a godfather holds, wouldn't it be better to keep it holstered in most situations? I hope that made sense.

Depends on the situation at hand, I suppose. A Godfather or Boss should not be like a bull in a china shop, but at the same time I believe too many leaders live their lives too meekly. What is the point in living a long life if you are walking on eggshells most of it? I'd rather be going 150 miles per hour, with the wind in my face and bugs in my teeth, pissing people off along the way. That way, when inevitable death arrives, I can say "Whoa, what a ride!".

Technically, we do have laws Butt_Ox. These are laws imposed by the Godfathers and Godmothers respectively. When they impose a law, it can hardly be called a "code". True, it's not a law in the traditional sense, but it is a law none the less.

Just throwing that out there.

I suppose that would be true if you wanted to make up your own definition of the word "law". Even the government does not refer to all of its rules for society as "laws". Those not made by a legislature are called "regulations", such as those rules enforced by an administrative agency. The rules created in self-governance of such agencies are called "rules".

The rules enforced by a family are of self-governance, and therefore would best be described as "rules". "Laws" would be on the opposite end of the definitional spectrum. So, "technically", no we do not have laws - not in a traditional sense, or any other sense other than in a very loose interpretation of the word. There is no point in loosely interpretting a word to such an extent, when there is a more accurate and suitable word for ready usage.

Who said I was making up a definition? A definition that can be found quite easily from a bit of quick research is that law is "the collection of rules imposed by authority". I believe that the rules imposed by the leaders of today fall well and truly into that catagory. Would I been coining the term "Mafia Law", if it does not yet exist?

In a sense, the only law that binds any of us is the law of cause and effect. You can do anything if you're willing to face the consequences of your actions.

That would be a correct usage of the word, Jayne. Laws can be rules governing scientific principles, but they are inapplicable to the mafia. It would be like saying the "laws" of football, when that would be an overstatement and misuse of the word. "Rules" are more applicable.

The rules of a sport are a collection imposed by an authority. So does football have "laws", or "rules"? As I stated, there are better words to be used. When you can make an argument for the application of more than one term, the best term to use is the one which is most accurate and descriptive of the object at hand.

Definition in this case is irrelevant. Godfathers say, we do. Or, the stupid among us do, then see what the godfathers say. Either way, the Godfathers will always win.