I've done it again there.

Absolut, I think we're all making a similar point on that it should be a gamble on the consequences. Where I think we are in disagreement, is how far you're actually able to enforce your threat, before you yourself are either gambling or unable to carry out your intentions.

~T~

Alright I understand what you're saying. I don't agree with shooting without permission. I've made that clear a few times. I also understand that a made man or higher would receive different punishment. In house or not though through the punishment I still think that if they can pickpocket me and they're some Wise Guy not being so wise then they should be taught a lesson by whom they've caused the problem with.

If I was a leader and a Wise Guy of mine went out and grabbed for your pockets Tallien I wouldn't expect anything less than you to shoot him. All I'd expect is to have it brought to my attention before shooting and have the matter discussed.

Like everyone else though we're all different and would be different things in different situations. That's the only problem with discussions such as these is it's nearly impossible to come to an exact agreement without upsetting one party or the other.

Well then Absolut it sure is a damn good thing your are not a leader.  Wouldn't you want to protect your own to the best of your abilities.  To "expect nothing less" than for rival gangs to gun down your members is less than honorable.

To address a comment you made earlier about speaking with the right hand or crew leader of the person that took a pick at your pockets:  That just goes and shows more ignorance.  You have publicly displayed the fact that you would skip out on your chain of command and take matters into your own hands.  Not a very wise thing to do now is it?  I mean hell, if your crew leader is into his members undermining his rules, position, and power of authority then hey! go for it.

Back on subject, I must say I agree with Butt_Ox here.  Pickpocketing has been made to be a huge ordeal when quite simply it should be raised as a do it at your own risk scenario.  Pick your battles.

Hmmm, if my member is ignorant enough as a Wise Guy to go and put his hand into a made mans pockets blatantly disrespecting him who am I to say he doesn't deserve it? The made man doesn't want people in his pockets and warn that he'll shoot them if they do and my member just ignores that? That's ignorant and I won't tolerate my members doing it but I would expect to talk to the made man first and make sure of the scenario.

Also going to the right hand or leader of the person that picks my pocket isn't going around my leader's back. It's simply telling them what their member has done and work something out. It's not like my leader wouldn't be informed in someway. You automatically assume I wouldn't tell my leader.

I believe our bloodlines go back anyhow and you were well known for disregarding many many orders from the chain of command. I believe LessThan senior, the Don from Hypnos family died over shooting at his OWN family over nothing at all. Not to be rude but I don't think you have a right to tell me where I'm going wrong or not.

I'm simply discussing ways to go about things and you're telling me that I'm ignorant for informing the mafiosos leader. I may not have a perfect past, but I can honestly say I wouldn't take advice from you when your bloodline hasn't portrayed what you speak of.

It seems most of these boards are actually factually incorrect then.

Lets take Absolut as an example (Sorry dude but its easy to pick you since you have spoke on the subject)

His board states that <em>No pickpocketing without consent. If you do pickpocket or attempt to pickpocket me without my approval then it's a contract stating that you will give me $100,000 or your life.</em>

What this really means is

Please don't put your hands in my pockets, however if you do I will speak to my Boss and he will speak to yours and then some punishment will be made depending on your crew rules. I'd like to try and con you out of $100,000 by threatening your life but in reality I really need to speak to my boss, your boss and hope to get some kind of approval to do so. However realistically if I kick up enough fuss your crewleader will probably shoot you.

On the main subject, they do amuse me and I am contemplating hiring someone to carry a substantial board around and offering advertising on it. I was made an offer not so long ago to declare how badly someone felt regarding the death of BrianRourke but I turned it down on the grounds of poor taste. He really wasn't that kind of guy.

If you must really bring that situation up

Don LessThan Senior was killed for shooting at a mouthy Wise Guy that had created many problems in the past and in the moment.

Me being an example is perfectly fine. I'm here to discuss not tell people they're wrong when it's really quite difficult to be wrong in such a discussion. It goes one way in an instance then goes a 180 degree opposite. If I was afraid to be an example I never would have said anything.

I'm just saying that there are a lot of circumstances that make this "teeter toter" like I said. If someone from I don't know we could say Hydrophonics family pickpocketed me and she said "It's in your tattoo, shoot him if you like. " or she could say "Well really it's just pickpocketing, I'll have him apologize." It's different in every single way. Death due to pickpocketing maybe a little harsh but at the same time like it's been stated. It's a gamble, if you stealth me and get away with it, obviously nothing will happen.

I just think still that if someone is willing to go out and deliberately pickpocket someone without asking them then why should they get to live? It's not right in any sense. "Oh yeah he says I die or give him $100,000 but who cares, fuck him."

It's really just a slap in the face.

Excuse me for a minute. Absolut I don't believe its your place to bring up a person's past. I was under the impression that past mistakes were a way to progress and learn. By bringing past transgressions of his father up it angers a person and possibly their present Crew Leader.

On the other hand, The fact that you presume to know how I would handle any given situation is actually amusing to me. I'm no pushover and I deal fairly to my members and all members of the mafia community.

I stress to ALL crew members of mine to look at a persons face (pic) and if it states No PP'ing then listen. If they can't seem to control their hands, death is warranted. Do I enjoy loosing a good member? Hell no but rules are rules. Made to be followed not broken.

"Well then Absolut it sure is a damn good thing your are not a leader.  Wouldn't you want to protect your own to the best of your abilities.  To "expect nothing less" than for rival gangs to gun down your members is less than honorable."

A Wise Guy isn't, or certainly should not be considered, 'one of a crewleader's own'. He is hired help. Expendable. Cannon fodder if necessary. This is not a difficult concept.

HydroPhonic I agree it's a way to learn but when it's someone telling me how to conduct myself when I have yet to do anything wrong it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't mean to anger him or his leader but if he's going to bring it up then he shouldn't be afraid of his past. I've messed up worse than him more than likely and if someone brings it up like you said, it's something that I learned from it like everyone else should from their mistakes.

I didn't presume anything, I was merely giving an example that's why I gave two different responses as a rough idea. If I offended you that wasn't my intentions.

I would like to point out, that You must ask me if you want to pickpocket me.

Smiles then Puts his arm around Butt_Ox

When are we going out for drinks?

To be fair, Mr. Absolut, you didn't bring up "his" past. You brought up something that one of his distant relations did, which has little bearing on this discussion. If he had brought up his ancestor, it would be understandable that you discuss it as well. But it does not seem wise to bring an ad hominem attack against him... especially when the man in question did not do the actual actions you're referring to.

Besides, unless your family line has approached the status of "Repeated Epic Fuck Up" I believe the tradition of our society is to let the sins of the father rest with the man himself, as Don HydroPhonic has stated.

You're correct Kates that it wasn't "his" past. It was an ancestor of his that did that mistake and maybe bringing it up didn't quite pertain to the discussion but neither did the part of me going around the chain of command and all that. Just throws a knot in it all.

To me though it sounded more of calling me ignorant when I was just discussing how to do things and repercussions that when he said that it caught me off guard as "So you're just some ignorant boss that doesn't go to his boss but behind his back." It's still not clear if that's what he meant but I shouldn't have brought his past up nonetheless.

coughs up what feels like a lung, but was actually a thick greenish substance

spits

I'm sure everyone knows how I feel about signs by now. Couldn't agree more

turns to one of the mobsters on the corner

does the opposite of what his sign says not to do and awaits his retaliation

Wow, this debate got real heated really quick. I just heard about it and everyone and their grandmother is in the streets talking. Now I agree that something along the lines of "Pickpocketing me is consent to have me shoot you in the taint and you have to give me money" is rather ridiculous, however, I do see a slight strategic value to being asked first before someone tries to take my wallet.

If someone asks me "Hey PR_Rep, can I fondle your ass cheeks looking for a few bucks?" And I say "Sure! Let me just stick my butt out so you can get nice and deep in there." After the take the money I can go "Wait...I didn't even see you take that!" So what does that tell us?

Yes, that one particular person is able to do things to me without me being able to see them (Whether that's good or bad....), and that can have a strategic advantage later on in whatever situation arises. So I just make a note of who it was and whether or not I was able to see them and that's one more piece of information I, and my family has, in the event of an unfortunate conflict.

~Ubar listens quietly, and thinks for a long time before speaking.~

"Every man is a ruler, within the circle of his sword."

"I think this statement is true, if you really think about it. Whatever a man can get away with, or has the power to enforce, is his right in a way. I agree to some point with the rediculousness of some of the 'sandwich signs' I've seen. I've had My own pickpocket friendly until I Ranked to Made Man, at which point I changed it to family members only unless the city rules stated otherwise. After listening to this discussion, I have revamped it once again to truly emulate what I feel."

'Am I pickpocket friendly? Theres no such thing. You feel lucky? Take a spin at the PP Slots. I may, or may not, do something about it. You can guess which, and act accordingly.'

"For one, in real life, there is no such thing as pickpocket friendly, although the reprecussions are soley based on what you can actually do about it if you were to catch someone trying. I don't think this has truly translated very well in this medium. My 'sandwich sign' is not meant as an insult to higher ranks, but rather as a warning to lower ranks who may try if they like."

"I will state, in My opinion, that 'pickpocketing having a set of rules' is an oxymoron. If you have the skill, and are not worried about repricussion, then go for it."

~Ubar goes back to listening carefully to the debate.~

I just want to say that I fully support any speech that involves The Big Butt make believe giving someone a noogie. 

There's just not enough pantomime in the mafia, what with the callous, leathery fronts we all put on to make others think we are skurry.

It often takes a big, cuddly, erm... flyingoxpigbuttthingy to remind us that it's ok to play a little make believe, and have imaginary friends.

Or maybe I missed the point all together.

Also, Tallien is a petunia.

~P~