I think that Butt Ox and Tallien are sadly living in an idealist world, and Anthony Dillinger in one in which he's been concussed too frequently. I don't disagree that the position of Godfather should be one in which the families in the city should have more freedom in their operations instead of being a conglomeration of one entity, however, the way things are is not bad. And for the most part, the way things are is the only way they can ever be. I will touch on that later.

Tallien mentioned that Detroit had 188 crewed members... So what? Every powerful family since the beginning of time has had the dominant numbers and members. Just because the game is more palatable now for a more bountiful amount of people to play doesn't change the fact that the most powerful family generally has the biggest following because this is America, and America likes winners. That is nothing new. And to be honest, the fact that so many people find their way to Detroit is amazing, because when the time to repopulate comes after a site-wide war where do all eyes turn? Why to the most powerful family of course. Each time a war is sparked and the casualties are numerous, Detroit is always the city that has to dump off a sizeable chunk of their resources and people into making sure the empty cities are able to rebuild.

The last thing anyone should be complaining about is the way Marietta runs her city or the fact that she actually runs the city and gets her hands dirty. It is after all HER city, like New York is my city. I may have a few independent outfits that work out of my city, but I still consider it to be my possession and if I clumped all the families together and adorned them in matching outfits that would be my absolute right.

To ensure that her city runs smoothely, Marietta HAS to oversee the minutae and assign captains instead of individualized crewleaders. Why? Because she has no reason not to. Godfathers have no powers coded in to differentiate ourselves from other ranks with the exception of city tax. We have to be more involved because we don't have the features that we should. Here was a list of what Godfathers should've been able to do quoted directly from the Mafia Bible with regards to the rank of Godfather:

Godfathers control the families within their city and are able to take a percentage of all profits made in their home, (regardless of which family the users belong to) as well as profits from the families in their charge. Along with the members already in their family, they will also have the names of the Family Heads currently in their city under their management, and be able to promote or demote them. What is more, should a Family Head wish to promote one of his/her members Made Man and above, a personal message will go to the Godfather and only with their approval will the promotion then be accepted.

Godfathers are able to visit the Head Quarters of the families in their city and keep watch on the proceedings. They also give a boost of defence and wacking ability to their own members as well as the members of the families within their city, although the extent of this boost is unknown.

You know how many of those features we have? The cut of the money that is made in the city. We have no actual coded in control of our city, so guess what? We have to fake it. Anita had more features than us, and those were kind of slopped on as she went. Even the Bible says, "Godfathers control the families within their city". If anything most of the Godfathers are just following the letter of the law according to the Bible (outdated it may be).

It would be nice to sit back with less responsibility, in fact I'm sure some Godfathers would welcome it. But we can't. We cannot oversee our cities, because we don't have the technical features that we should, so we are forced to control them. That is the reality we are living in. So before going off on tangents about the way things should be run, realize that it's really the only way to run them.

The so what aspect of me utilising the numbers was to evidence the speaker's point on stagnancy. I didn't question the quality of the way Marietta runs her city merely that 188 people under one banner makes war with Detroit virtual suicide. This means that when coupled with the other Godfathers adopting the same policy, any war will involve the majority of the game and likely be due to a build up over several months of stagnancy.
 
Just because she has no reason not to, doesn't automatically mean she HAS to either. I would also suggest that she or any of the other Godfathers do have reason not to as well; the real life example presented by Butt_Ox should illustrate this. We're a game which attempts to emulate the Mafia, in order to achieve our so often touted goal of 'acting like mobsters' surely the one of these aims should be to maintain that realism?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my statement of "that it isn't could just as easily come down to the practicalities of ensuring your own survival". I intended this to illustrate that I understand, as well as anyone I would guess, that the practicality of the position and can therefore understand the position that has been adopted by the Godfathers. That does not mean however, that the current method is the only way to operate as a Godfather, which to me, was the point of the thread.

~T~

I agree with everything Marietta says, when/if she gets around to saying it.

First- I would have gone with "Of Godfather and Guinea Pigs". Just works on multiple levels.

I would also like to submit that Marietta has ruined everything. Due to inability to maintain her "hop along" ranking pace, the public of a mafia RPG has been forced to listen to terms like "Godparent" and "Godperson". I will be billing Marietta for my bleeding ears as soon as she returns my mails.

I will not try to completely discuss this issue, as my attempt to create a bulletproof argument will no doubt include inferences about what I think other people mean, which will then force me to apologize for doing so. Briefly, however...

As previously mentioned, "Godfather" is not even an actual rank, and in this place we use the word to essentially say "This person is so goddamn powerful they own their own city, and everything in that city is within their jurisdiction". One thing that is essential to remember that I believe we all too often forget is that, fortunately or unfortunately, this is not a true roleplaying game. It is a vision of a particular slice of the 1930s that is rooted in reality... but everything we do is a distorted vision. A real Godfather might prefer to kick back and collect his money, settle disputes, and "float above the shit", so to speak. That makes sense, since he'd have to worry about the cops a hell of a lot less. But we don't have cops. There's no threat of getting locked up for a month, or 6 months, or getting shot in a police raid. The only threats that we have are each other.

While we should strive to make the RPG experience as realistic as possible, we should always remember that we're seeing the 1930s "though a glass darkly". (I know this is blatantly obvious to everyone, but it doesn't hurt to throw out a reminder every now and then for some).

" Anita had more features than us, and those were kind of slopped on as she went."

That is absolutely incorrect.

Did you not HQ wack a leader set up in your city?  We cannot do that. 

I believe she had to request an admin perform the actual HQ wack on her behalf, due to the feature being intended but not actually coded at that point.

~T~

That's correct tallien:)

ThomasRourke, the "control" you have over your city is in the men and women you auth. If you manage to make good choices, authing the right people, you CAN sit back and let the city earn money. You say you need more control over the city, but that can be achieved quite simply by having intelligent hitters. High-ranking guns put in place to kill at your request. You don't need extra features, you just need organization.

It's not always "something that needs coded in". Just try and think of ways to solve your problems, while still keeping parellel with the Role Playing.

Or I suppose you could just code in that feature yourself.

~B~

Fair enough, I guess we've just never had to go down that avenue for HQ wacking leaders... Take care of that the old fashioned way. 

Bokrug everything you just said is pretty much what I said wasn't it?  We have to instill the sense of authority based off the lack of features.

Now where could Thomas find a high ranking gun and an intelligent hitter?

Hmmmm....