Gatsby carefully walks out into the city of Philadelphia. A city recently struck down and blown over. Many men and women had been killed. The Hitcher went out to explain the events of Saturday night when people began erupting claiming he was a fraud. That his story was untrue. This lead Gatsby to ponder the idea that perhaps there was such a thing as innocence in the mafia. That perhaps these people were not guilty of the crimes they had committed or were soon to commit. It did not matter to Gatsby one bit. In fact Gatsby knew this was a revolving issue. Some claimed that they were innocent of the rumors and stories told about them. All Gatsby wanted to know was if there was a slightest possibility that there were people who do not deserve to die. If there were people who were innocent by nature. 

Is there a such thing as Innocence in the Mafia? I do not intend to draw this subject out further than it needs to be but i do hope that many of you would have a response. You see Old Sport, Many here seem to think when after a war is over that the side that was attacked, their parents, were innocent and deserved not to be killed. Now, i for one do not know whether or not i agree with such a thought. I mean simply put, we are all not on the same side. But on the other side of the coin, which there is another side to the coin, we are all on the same side. Out of fear and the desire to control, we kill and we burn cities in hopes that we can get a leg up in this world.

See on one hand you have the side that specifically states, You killed Gangsters, you sell drugs, You have joined an organization set out to achieve the grandest heights of luxury by robbing and savagery, so there is no innocence for you. In fact this side would usually state that once you join such a criminal organization you are sealing your own individual fate with the atrocities you will or have already committed. This side will believes that any threat of war or danger to their family is an act of war on the family itself. Any rumor or any inkling of a thought would induce the other side to let their bullets fly through the night. 

Then, there is the other side. The side that when their family and friends are killed in a gang war they usually say that, "No. We deserved no such death. We were innocent and the reasoning behind attacking our forefathers was unjust." They will go on to say that lies where made in the streets and that one did not correctly have their facts straight. If we go by a set of morals and ethics, that which separates us from the beasts of this world, we would immediately see that of course most attacks are probably unjust. This side will often claim they had no desire to harm others or frustrate the plans of a criminal nation.

Gatsby hoped his speech did not go in vain and others would soon speak out. He quieted himself, adjusted his coat and sat back looking around waiting for someone to speak. 

Innocence in the mafia doesn't exist, although this does not necessarily make for ''justified killing''. However, if you join a family, expect to die with it.

Once you join a family, all innocence is lost. You're going to die with that family, and that's something that should be understood upon joining said family. There are no innocent people in the mafia. We've all done things, some more than others, but the point is all of us are far from innocent.

I agree with all stated before, there is no such thing as innocence in this thing of ours. Blood in, Blood out. Simply stated there, as for the disloyalty that you sometimes see when people jump ship after the war.. it's just sickening. There is no innocence.

I think all four of you are correct. How is there such a thing as innocence in the mafia? 

I think when a question is asked one must always clarify the terms being used. One must never assume you know what i know and i know what you know. For in this instance, innocence must mean something more. It must that somewhere along the line a party is not meant to be harmed or murdered. When i sit back, and when i look at all the trouble that goes on around you and i, i realize that there is innocence. 

Now before you go laughing again Charlie, hear me out. I think usually when we hear the word innocent we think of an adorable puppy or a cute child that is crying in the wee hours of the morning. When i speak of innocence i am not speaking of the common usage of the word. I mean to say that we somewhere along the line have a code a type of conduct in these streets that is not meant to be broken. Wouldn't you all agree? 

If we did not have this code, i could just go forward shooting and killing anyone and everyone i wanted, for my own reasons. This would mean that they are guilty of whatever crimes i find and with that are worthy of death. In the grand scheme of things innocence here in our world simply but most assuredly means that one does not violate a certain conduct or policy that was put into place. 

Speaking about this more and more i am starting to believe that there is an innocence. I am innocent of any crimes against you. I am innocent of harming your family or intending to harm those you care about. I am an innocent and i am in the mafia. Yet if someone were to gun me down and say i was guilty of those things which i said i am not, does that mean i was never innocent?

The big picture is that innocence is only lost when one violates the harmony of another. Until that point we all live in a state of innocence. 

Innocence is highly over rated.....We rob, murder, extort and make lots of cash doing it.  Not to mention the prestige of being known for being a bad ass.  I sacrificed my innocence a long time ago when I first snatched that old granny's purse.

DwightTheSchrute thinks for a moment before speaking. "Innocence is one thing no one in the mafia has. We kill, rob, deal drugs. However. that's not to say that there isn't a difference between a justified kill, an unjustified kill, and a casualty of war." 

DwigttheSchrute Could you say more Old Sport, think what you are hitting on is what i am also trying to figure out. If there is an unjustified kill would there also support the belief that there is such a thing as innocence within this criminal underworld we have found ourselves in? 

Also, Bespoke i hope there was some goodies inside that purse you stole. 

Geez I only grabbed myself $272 & found a bobby pin but decided I already had so many it's not worth keeping and binned it.  

One must never assume you know what i know and i know what you know.

(puts on a horror narrating voice) 

"I know what you did last summer"

Gatsby heard Altair say He knew what Gatsby did last summer.

You see bespoke, this is why we don't steal grandmas purses

Johnny snarls  and mutter a few words.. "Innocence in the mafia? pffft"  he sighs then chuckles...

Of coarse there is no "Innocence" In the mafia. Just a high value for respect and certain principals each and everyone of us follow.

"You live by the gun, You die by the gun" Way she goes...