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| Members do not listen. | Started by: Bed on Nov 19, '07 14:58 |
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After all the happenings over the last day or 2 I think what I am about to say is very relevant. Both sides have been argued and the conclusion I have come up with is that family members are allowed to get away with things. Example: Oliver went to war with Scandia. Scandia was soon finished off and word was spread that the homeless were to be left alone. How many of them survived? Barely any of them. Now... if the word went out from the leaders that the unsponsored should not be shot, why were so many still thrown in the bottom of the ocean? What is the cause of this? Let's take a look at some of the reasoning; A leader dies, word goes out not to shoot his/her homeless. Their members are still shot but no witness statements turn up This can and does happen, we ARE supposed to live by the laws of omerta. C'est la vie. A leader dies, word goes out not to shoot his/her homeless. Their members are still shot, the respective leaders find out who shot them but they're someone who is either high ranked, a good hitter or in their structure so they refuse to punish them. Just a slap on the wrists This one sickens me to the very core and sadly, is the most common. If your members (friends in most cases in this instance) can't even abide by simple rules you set then there is something very wrong. Some people know they will get away with killing unsponsored because their leader is their friend. Well, to those leaders... these people are not your friends. If they can't even respect a simple request for them to holster their guns then they do not respect you. They view you as weak and a pushover, that is why they are in your "family" A leader dies, word goes out not to shoot his/her homeless. Their members are still shot, another leader sends you (the leader) the witness statement saying that they broke your rules and are you going to punish them. You do so but only because another leader has found out. This also shows you to be a very weak person because you do not even stand up to the morals you set yourself. If this is the case for any of our current leaders, I urge you to step down because you are going to be walked over by "friends" and "foes" alike. If any of the last 2 examples applies to you then you should be ashamed of yourself because you are supposed to be the strong willed one, you are supposed to lead your family, teach them your morals, your rules and your way of life. If your members can't follow your own instructions then they should no longer be a member. Far be it for me to tell the leaders what to do with their families but if your members disobey even the simplest of rules then you dont have a family. You have a bunch of hoodlums who are just jumping on the "gravy train". If you're not going to REALLY protect the homeless then please don't pretend to because WHEN (not if) you get found you will be made to a look like a weak fool. In short, members are refusing to listen and leaders are not leading. *shrugs* What an "honourable" (*spit*) world we live in. Bed. OOC: To touch on the favourite subject of a certain Mr. Pig, leaders who put their coffeeshop friends before their morals or their own family are nothing short of waste of spaces and oxygen. This is one of the reasons why people are not punished for their actions because they knew their leader through the coffeeshops in the months/years previous. |
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Well I wouldn't want to comment on the specifics of what you say but nonetheless I agree wholeheartedly and it raises two additional points in my mind. The first concerns not only family members refusal to listen to instructions, but also their failure to even read the most basic memos they are sent. For those of you who pull your weight and comply will all orders it is a pain to have to re-read the same stuff sent out from the structure because the lazy, ignorant and plain lacking aren't taking the time to come up to standard. There are many who are willing to talk and less inclined to listen, despite the fact that listening provides knowledge as effectively as talking and knowledge is power. In the case of a takedown I can understand the rationale behind members who kill people despite being told not to. Nothing will happen. The risk of being caught and killed for it is outweighed by the chances that the hitter won't be killed and indeed will have another notch on their holster. That is basically why it happens and it does boil down to weakness. You've hit the nail on the head and it brings me to my second point. The sordid underbelly of this community that unquestionably facilitates apathy, revenge and ego in the minds of its beneficiaries. When there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians and when every thug is allowed to think of themselves as continually special on past merits, special enough even to influence events they should by rights have no control over, we have a problem. I've always felt a good leader should be more Draconian than Rasteferian and have no compulsions over the HQ whack. Unfortunately taking a decision to kill or HQ someone in this world based on their actions is no longer prudent based on their past, conditions that can be rectified by one who is strong enough in body and mind to do so. Unfortunately the increased risk in actually enforcing things seems to make it not worth the while. Why walk when you can coast I suppose. I can't blame it even if I don't agree with it. |
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| Reply by: Rhydian-Roberts at Nov 19, '07 15:19 | |
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Algernon steps down from his horse drawn carriage to say a word to the fellow that has been recently ranting on the street I do say old chap, thanks for informing us at last as to what happened that dreadfully delightful night. I was getting worried you never would. My dear boy, it pains me to say this, what with you talking with a fiery passion of one sidedness, but I do think old chap that you might not be grasping the whole picture. For one thing three might be more than one reason why a homeless person killed. Often all hi rankers are killed in a family, weather they are deemed a threat or not, because they do have the ability to potentially injure the attacking family. Some of these deaths my dear fellow, do happen to occur after the said leader is killed. Not only that but I can speak for the fact that at least in my family, your fathers name doesn't save you from being submitted to acts that resemble bloody excesses of the French revolution. ((OOC: an irc friendship doesn't save you from your mistakes)) Quite the contrary my dear fellow, I have seen many a good son go the chopping block regardless of his fathers experiences. To simply put it my dear boy, you do have a good point, but my argument is that your sentimental exclamations lack knowledge that might not be given out to the general public. with this Algernon pulls out his golden pocket watch, checks the time, nods to himself, and begins to walk of with a slight smile |
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| Reply by: Algernon at Nov 19, '07 15:32 | |
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excuse me sir? i think you may have misread what i pinned up because what you have replied with had very little to do with what i said i never said three had nothing to do with any of the kills (only she can answer that) hitters need to kill, i understand and accept this my whole point was... what is the point of saying you are going to protect the homeless when in fact, your not? if you are going to tell me that i am wrong and that all the leaders are punishing the homeless then you are very wrong because i sent at least 2 leaders WS's of their members killing scandia's homeless and the hitters are still alive today |
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| Reply by: Bed at Nov 19, '07 15:43 | |
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Members do not listen. Egos are unjustifiably overblown these days, and I can't figure out why. There are very few who have accomplished enough to justify an ego. I think Rydian has a good grasp on things concerning this issue. While listening to him, one thing that crossed my mind is that there has traditionally been a Darwinian element in our society that has kept some of these numbskulls from getting too high in the world. Those who lacked respect for their leader or thought too highly of themselves need to be knocked down a peg or two. I've said more than a few times that most of you are retards. Perhaps this was misinterpreted to mean that you are "special" instead of "speshul". Leaders should be Draconian. When a leader tries to be a friend, they will be taken advantage of by those who care more about themselves than their family, and that is a huge problem at the moment. Every action you take reflects on your family, so think about that next time you do something that you know your leader would disapprove of. Think of the leader/associate relationship like that of a parent and a child. If the parent tries to be the child's friend, the child is not going to receive proper discipline, and problems will occur. |
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| Reply by: maxwell at Nov 19, '07 15:57 | |
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Maxwell, I always enjoy your commentaries.., I really do.
Excellent parallel. There should always be a fine line between friendship and business. The biggest thing is keeping these friends in line. If a friend is going to compromise business... then they aren't much of a friend either? When running a business such as waste management, we need to be consistent. I believe one of the reasons for the surplus of ego's is IRC Avenue and it's assorted coffee shops. I drink my coffee at home. For one reason or another, I'm guessing it's the caffeine and multiple personalities disorder that contribute to the big ball syndrome that has infested our world today. Keep in mind, I aint bashing that Java. :-D |
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| Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at Nov 19, '07 16:25 | |
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But one of the reasons Scandia was shot was because his members did not feel comfortable talking to him. They wanted to be his friend and when he did not coddle them they went to Oliver who helped them instead. The line between being a friend and being a leader is fine indeed and it's up to the leader themselves too choose which path to take and stick to it. If the two become mixed or the leader goes too far one way, they usually pay with their lives. I think thats needs to be considered in this world. |
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| Reply by: Tamelo at Nov 19, '07 16:25 | |
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| Respecting and feeling uncomfortable are not mutually exclusive. | |
| Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at Nov 19, '07 16:32 | |
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| Given that I'm no expert on this situation Tamelo, I believe you misunderstand. You make a sweeping generalisation which implies the majority, if not all of Scandia's members felt the same way; yet I look in the obits and see he died with 68 members. | |
| Reply by: Trigliani at Nov 19, '07 16:38 | |
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I think I touched this slightly in response to Olivers speech. Whether or not people were told not to, fact is that Scandias ex family members got massacred. And this went on when they were supposed orders not to. I accept that this can happen (A novice with a few kills under their belt, thinking they are "the shit"), but the fact that all of these witness statements have suprisingly gone missing is unnacceptable in my eyes. If a these soldiers cannot keep to orders when they are on the winning side, I would like to see them on the losing side. Perhaps then they would be less trigger happy? |
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| Reply by: Gaara at Nov 19, '07 16:43 | |
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| I believe the leaders have the capability to run their own families and that you all with your negative oppinions on how they run them need to shut up. You should all respect that if you were in the same situation you would be doing whatever you have to, to protect your hitters (If that may be the case). NO hitters = No power. Power = Good for the game. Someone has to have power so other users don't try to do something stupid. So everyone just needs to calm down with their oppinions and keep them in the dark so that the game can work in the manner it is suppose to. | |
| Reply by: Red_Eye at Nov 19, '07 16:51 | |
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again red_eye, i ask you to read what is actually said ill say it again though... hitters need kills, i understand and accept this but why say you're going to protect someone's homeless if you're not really going to? just dont say anything and let your hitters do their business |
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| Reply by: Bed at Nov 19, '07 16:54 | |
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| Red-Eye, when your own hitters operate behind your back... how does that translate into power? | |
| Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at Nov 19, '07 16:55 | |
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Hmmm I like the way you think we should not form an opinion Red_Eye. I think it is "our right" to point out things that we see as faults. Unless you want to live in a society where you have no say? I think Oliver himself would appreciate some of the opinions, thats how people learn....off others. Unless you want to put you lips into postition? =] |
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| Reply by: Gaara at Nov 19, '07 17:03 | |
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In my kind of mafia to hell with the sleeping unsponsored, It's not my fault they decided to sleep at the wrong time. Shoot them and make your gun better, is it wrong? Of course but think about it, we sell drugs and knock off 7-11's for a living. Unless you personally know them and they are your friend, they are unsponsored just like anyone else shoot them. But thats just me I'm sorry if I made you angry by being honest. I just think some people should not be soo soft, maybe I'm not honourable but I think that you can be honourable and still be a real mobster that doesn't get along with everyone. I don't want to hold everyones hand and live happily ever after. |
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| Reply by: Mugen- at Nov 19, '07 17:15 | |
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| I understand what you mean Mugen, we are not here to be molly coddled, and yes we can still be respectful and ruthless at the same time. So what's your opinion on the people who went AGAINST their leaders orders? | |
| Reply by: Gaara at Nov 19, '07 17:46 | |
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Now people going against there leaders should deffinitly be shot and killed thats just plain common sense. Now if they are important to the crew and know that the leader wont kill them then it is totally up to the leader. That is another thing that explains why this is mafia, There are certain people that can do whatever they want and know that there leader wont kill them. Now you might be a bad leader by letting someone get by on you, but if they guy is so important then be honest, he is important let him do what he wants. If it was me I would have a iron fist and kill anyone who went against my orders , but then again I would not give that order I would tell my crew to send me a authorization request. That way I can make sure If I know the person that is unsponsored before he goes down If I dont know him o well. I might sound stupid though because most people here want to grow old together and live life happily ever after. |
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| Reply by: Mugen- at Nov 19, '07 17:56 | |
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| **Your lips...damn wine! | |
| Reply by: Gaara at Nov 19, '07 18:20 | |
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