To: Trex
From: HelpDesk (Lady-Fighter)
Sent: Sep 06, '15 06:33
Subject: Sentences

Sent as HelpDesk (Lady-Fighter) by Lady-Fighter. 
Hello Trex,

Its a nice idea. Could you post it in the game suggestions forum?

https://mafiareturns.com/comm/forum/suggestions/

Then other people could give their opinion too.

To: HelpDesk
From: Trex
Sent: Sep 06, '15 05:29
Subject: Sentences

Hello HelpDesk,

I was wondering if it would be possible to add a feature to the game.

It seems to me that crew/family leaders are quick on wacking their members who break their "rules".

If leaders had the option of sentencing offenders to their rules in their own jail or denoucing them to the police for a prolonged sentence in the already existing jail system, it would improve relations between criminals and increase the population of players.

Thank you, Trex

Jailing should only be done by the game or by the Admins. Giving players ability to jail other players is just begging for the feature to be abused.

Its an interesting idea, but I think there is potential for abuse if we allow more than just admins to do it.  And I don't think leaders will replace killing someone for a major offense with jail time.  Nor would jail time be as much of a punishment as demotions, removing guns, etc.  Neat idea, but I don't think it would be used properly or effective punishment. 

Plus it doesn't really make sense for a CL to put someone into the jail system. The idea of banishment seems more legit, but then again in the mafia when someone does something out of line that removing a gun or demoting them isn't enough of a punishment then a bullet to the head is pretty much a legit punishment. It's the mafia, after all.

This would provide a nice alternative for punishing a member who broke rules. Instead of demoting them, you could jail them for X amount of hours or days. This way the user perhaps learns a lesson, without having to potentially re-rank again.

Sereno, you make a good point.  Its not really realistic to put someone in jail.  In the mafia a leader wouldn't put someone in jail, aren't we always trying to save people from jail?  And in reality, how would a leader put someone in jail?  If we are sticking to a more realistic mafia like most people want, jail doesn't make sense like the other forms of punishment.

To me, the jail time wouldn't help anything, it'd only make the person hotter under the collar.

Sereno, you make a good point.  Its not really realistic to put someone in jail.  In the mafia a leader wouldn't put someone in jail, aren't we always trying to save people from jail?  And in reality, how would a leader put someone in jail?  If we are sticking to a more realistic mafia like most people want, jail doesn't make sense like the other forms of punishment.

Ever heard of RATS?  Mafiosi denounce each other all the time for reduced sentences or to get perks from the police.

Trex, they do that these days but not back in the day. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/a-centennial-history/fbi_and_the_american_gangster_1924-1938

Criminals back then had no need to rat on one another as they ran shit. Once Hoover got his men organized things slowly changed, yet Mafioso ratting on one another sill didn't happen until this guy: http://americanmafiahistory.com/joe-valachi-the-first-rat/

So I understand where you're coming from but the era we are portraying was one where criminals ruled and there were a lot of gang related deaths. If we were talking about todays mafia then RATS would make sense as they are now a common thing.

Taylor_Swift, some things need to be a certain way for the game mechanics to work. This change wouldn't be one of them as there are other methods of punishment that make more sense. In the 1930's punishment by criminals in organized crime meant death.

We're also talking in character (IC) punishment here. OOC jail punishment is what admin do and that definitely makes sense.

Every family has a set of rules to follow and every HQ will have all the information a player needs to not get wacked. If someone just follows the rules a family sets forth then they are golden. If they really want to break the rules then putting them in a jail cell, in this era, by another criminal, doesn't make sense.

And if the action isn't to the point the user needs to have their character wacked then demotion I think is still a decent penalty.

Sereno all those points are fine and dandy, but every discussion between mobsters and police in the 1920s/1930s are not on the internet.

Even "Micheal Corleone" didn't wack his brother Fredo before their mom died.... 

The idea is to give a chance for the poplulation of players to increase.  I have never seen 200 ... ok 300... players online at the same time.  How many got a glimps of the game, got discouraged and never returned because they got wacked?

The discussions may not be, but the understanding of the era is documented. Just as the middle ages is, and other periods of history. This just happens to be that snitching didn't become a thing in the mafia till much later than the 1920s/1930s. If you can find me something that says otherwise then I'll be happy to defer to what you can find :)

The reasoning is awesome. I wish some of the newer accounts here stayed longer than they do. The thing I have found working with green recruits though is that the ones that make the choice to offski completely on their first account make it before they get the chance to break a rule and get wacked. They simply stop logging in after a period of trying the game out and don't return, because they aren't invested enough or it just doesn't gel with them.

So I'm really not sure how many have been discouraged due to getting wacked, yet if they understood they broke a rule and the way the mafia worked then it's just a part of the game. You fuck up bad enough and you get a bullet. It may seem harsh, but it's just the way the mafia tradition works and it's clear as day in a families HQ rules that all members have to read, understand and sign. It's the type of punishment I feel adds realism to the game. If this weren't the case then this may not be a mafia game.

Of course this is just me and how I see things. If you get enough support to say it'll work (especially from the CL's as Squishy said) then overall this could still be implemented regardless of what I think.

Sereno:"So I'm really not sure how many have been discouraged due to getting wacked"

Well I cant anser that either, I guess Helpdesk might be able to help with that as "they" are the ones getting the feed back probably.

Sereno:"yet if they understood they broke a rule and the way the mafia worked then it's just a part of the game."

Permit me the comparison of rule to LAW, do each judge in the leagal system interpret LAWS the same way, or are laws subject to interpretation? Each CL can run their family the way they see fit. If you are part of one family with a CL that gives a given sentence for an offence and then part of a different family with a CL ... you get the picture. A big rule I find which is greatly subject to interpretation is RESPECT. Which words can be used or not, in addition to the fact that this is an RP game.

Anyways, this thread has gone in a direction I didn't expect. All I was trying to do is put an idea out there to improve the game. Thanks.

I think there could potentially be some worth to this suggestion, it might help counter the +1 hungry CL's/hitters, that cant be a bad thing and might add another dimension to the game. although if something like this was to be implemented, in the interest of balance something else would needed to be added. A way to be able to release/break out a jailed person. I'm solely looking at this from a war POV.

As izzy has said you cant be killed while you're in jail, its safe to assume a feature like this would be misused during war, you would need to come up with ideas to counter this.. A certain way to break that person/people out during war so they are able to be killed, or not protected by something that should be used as a punishment. What i wouldn't want to see here is the old demote for BG's scenario, a punishment used to gain...doesn't seem to make sense, does it.  

So maybe go back to the drawing board, come up with a way to counter this, taking in all aspects of game play, it might then go in the direction you wanted, or "expected"