I've been working on this idea for a couple weeks now, and I've come up with two different versions of it. I will post these one after the other, so bear with me, and please read both before responding.

VERSION 1:

COST: 5 Credits

The credits would be payed and the fight would be initiated. From here the initiator would set a bet amount, the cash must be available on hand.

This would be setup in a simple form, similar to the transfer form on the bank page.

Challenge USER [TEXTBOX] for $[TEXTBOX] [SUBMIT: "CHALLENGE"]

Now, when you challenge a player, the money is removed from your cash and stored away in a pot (like poker). To accept, the challenged player MUST have the challenge amount of cash on hand.

If the challenge is declined, the money is returned, no harm, no foul.

If it is accepted, you will then fight.

The fighting would be different then what you've experienced on here before. It would be based on base levels of your stats with no rank boosts or anything, bodyguards wouldn't be taken into account. Think of it as wack cut to it's bear bones.

Now, to give higher ranks more of an advantage, there would be a HEALTH variable created for each fight. This would be determined by your rank, and a constant number to be determined at code time. The fight would be run in a loop, each fighter taking turns attacking each other, damage varying based on how their skills match up. The last fighter standing after one of their HPs drops below 0 is the winner.

The winner receives the pot amount. OPTIONALLY a stat boost could be used, the stat might be determined by count of attacks to hits. FOR EXAMPLE: If you got HIT 10 times, but YOU HIT your opponent only 5 times, you would get a DEFENSE stat boost, but if you GOT HIT 5 times and YOU HIT your opponent 10 times, you would get a WACK stat boost. These boosts would be small, nothing that would rack up your defense or your wack very high, possibly capping out after X number of fights (like training ranges).

ALSO Fights would use your wack timer for 1 hour.

That was version 1. Version 2 is similar to Version 1...

VERSION 2:

To start all you would need to do is have an open attack timer, and the amount of money to challenge your opponent. The fights would go exactly like Version 1.

The difference between version 1 and version 2 is, we would add a section on for credit purchases of MOVES. Attack and Defense moves. These moves would vary in cost and would give your character a slight boost in attack or defense during your fights. They would last for X amount of days (to be determined).

I do appreciate any insight into what are the positives and the negatives of this idea. I do understand some hesitation to change in the game, but I think this could be a positive change, and one that I've already discussed with a few players and have gotten wide spread positive feedback.

I thank you ahead of time for keeping your responses civil.

An interesting suggestion, certainly. I mean, there were all types of underground sporting events back in the day, boxing being no exception. I like the thought and detail you've put into this, far more than we see in most suggestions. I think its feasible, another way to spend time, a way to RP and make an underground betting ring out of it, as well as a bit of another 'career' path. Would you suggest that your 'fight' ability be trainable or left to random chance of base stats? (If you addressed this already, I apologize for not picking up on it.)

Well, I assume your question is using "Base stats" as the stats that your character starts with when it is created, after answering the questions. If I'm wrong, then this answer isn't going to make any sense.

I define "Base stats" as the wack/defense skills that your character has BEFORE any bonuses are added. So, for example, say you had a wack stat of 100. That would be the same if you were thug, as well as if you were Godfather. Now, that same stat would be different in WACK as we have a Rank bonus figured into it.

So, as far as training, I did suggest an option of increasing the wack/defense skills in the idea:

OPTIONALLY a stat boost could be used, the stat might be determined by count of attacks to hits. FOR EXAMPLE: If you got HIT 10 times, but YOU HIT your opponent only 5 times, you would get a DEFENSE stat boost, but if you GOT HIT 5 times and YOU HIT your opponent 10 times, you would get a WACK stat boost. These boosts would be small, nothing that would rack up your defense or your wack very high, possibly capping out after X number of fights (like training ranges).

This I find would be a creative, and secretive way of doing it, as you would never know how many hits you took/gave you would just see that you won or lost the fight. This would mean you wouldn't know if you'd increased your wack or defense skill.

Now, skills would also be increased anytime that skill was increased OUTSIDE of that arena. For example, say that me doing petties increases my wack skill by 10 points for each successful petty on friday at 4:49PM when the moon is in the seventh quadrant of the isosceles triangle frog....If I hit a petty, then the next time I fight I'm 10 points stronger.

I love the RP aspect that this opens, and the idea came mainly from the old Mugging competitions I'd seen where it was used to simulate fighting. If I'm not mistaken there's a similar fight club RPing currently.

I've also seen ideas about non-lethal attacks before. This was my way of combining the two, and giving a financial gain for the winner, and for the site. As you can see by the versions, I've incorporated credits into this idea, as there is far too few places to use credits currently.

Thank you for your input GingerAle, and I hope I answered your question--and possibly created some more, as this is a basic idea, the back and forth like this will help develop it further, and make it the best it can be before it is considered for implementation.

I definitely like the non-lethal attack option, as pickpocketing is really a joke. Its no more an attack than it is a form of gambling with other people's money, and until MUGGING is implemented as its been discussed, it will continue to be. So you have my support on that issue. Again, I'd like to see some kind of pros/cons to winning/losing the fight in addition to the financial gain/loss.

And when I said base stats, I meant what you were talking about when you said:

It would be based on base levels of your stats with no rank boosts or anything, bodyguards wouldn't be taken into account.

So I think your explanation still applies, as I was wondering if as you continued fighting and either win or lose, would these base levels improve or decline with continued performance.(I'm quite tired, but it seems to make a great deal of sense, what you wrote.)

I'll read through this properly and provide some detailed feedback later - but my one immediate concern is that we don't start adding features for the sake of having something to spend credits on.

It sounds like a great idea and like I'll say I'll offer some more proper opinions later - but I'd hate to see us with a plethora of features that are underused and only there because they bring in revenue.

I also think that this should be an option only for Wise Guys and below. I don't think the higher rankers waste their time with such uncivilised behaviour. A millionaire Don isn't going to get into fist fights. He might beat the crap out of people in his office, but he won't get down and dirty in an organized fight in some dingy basement.

I'll read through this properly and provide some detailed feedback later - but my one immediate concern is that we don't start adding features for the sake of having something to spend credits on.

It sounds like a great idea and like I'll say I'll offer some more proper opinions later - but I'd hate to see us with a plethora of features that are underused and only there because they bring in revenue.

I agree with you completely there, I don't want us to have features just to spend credits on them, as that defeats the purpose. I originally came up with this idea, recognized the potential to implement credits into this idea, and then added the credits. Credits are secondary to any idea that I come up with.

I also think that this should be an option only for Wise Guys and below. I don't think the higher rankers waste their time with such uncivilised behaviour. A millionaire Don isn't going to get into fist fights. He might beat the crap out of people in his office, but he won't get down and dirty in an organized fight in some dingy basement.

The thing I have an issue with here is, limiting features to end at a certain rank really ruins features for me. I can see limiting them to START at certain ranks, as this would give the game a more reason to rank, but if you stop people from being able to do this at certain ranks, you're effectively ruining one aspect of the game if they truly enjoy using this feature.

I mean, let's be technical here for a second and say, I'm pretty damn sure a millionaire Don isn't going around holding up post offices, or picking people's pockets, but we allow that, so why hold back here?

I do understand your devotion to the RP aspect of that, and I respect it, but sadly in this game we've had to take some lee-way with staying true to form with the RP. This idea is my attempt to compromise between the RP and the game.

I agree with what Sprozza says about not simply creating new ideas in order to find uses for credits. With that being said, if you're giving two options I prefer Option 2. With users buying in for cash and receiving cash/stat gains as a result, I don't see a need for credits to be involved as a transaction.

On a semi-related basis (and I apologize for how this sounds - I do not intend to sound like a cunt) I would really like to see things that have already been promised to a user-base, like the introduction of St. Louis, before we start trying to create new things from scratch.

I share the opinion that if we stuck strictly to realism then clearly not many people would be involved in this. However, I also agree that we shouldn't use that as justification for bypassing an idea, because what Don steals a purse every 3 minutes?

To the idea itself, my concern from a game point of view is anything that operates between two people and involves stat changes can be easily and extremely exploited. We saw it with pro wacking when this game first started, with mugging and we would probably see it with this as well. That makes capping it at either a very low amount or the possibility of being beaten so severely your stats significantly suffer an essential inclusion, to prevent exploitation.

The idea itself is fine to me and would add another action that you could undertake. Possibly allowing others to bet on their chosen fighter and thus increasing the pot would be something worth considering - although with having too much money in the game already, this may be a step in the wrong direction.

The introduction of St. Louis, unless drastically different from any of the other cities, is really not going to change very much, other than give another 5 people HQs which aren't full and I for one, will happily see it delayed for more interesting suggestions. 

~T~

On a semi-related basis (and I apologize for how this sounds - I do not intend to sound like a cunt) I would really like to see things that have already been promised to a user-base, like the introduction of St. Louis, before we start trying to create new things from scratch.

I agree that we should introduce St. Louis into the game. The city is there, it's just buggy. Now, that being said, I do hope you understand that there are certain things that need to happen before St. Louis can be introduced, for example forums must be revamped. Now, I could easily get St. Louis opened tonight, but I've been told not to, as it would just introduce another band-aid that we would need to re-arrange and edit when forums are redone. I'm all for it, but I'm positive it won't happen tonight.

I agree with Tallien here that stats in a p2p situation can be exploited. I also like the idea of possibly causing injury to an opponent that will drop certain stats. Some ideas that instantly come to mind are sort of "fight wackbacks"

You break your hand on Dude's face, and suddenly your wack is worse. RP reason: hard to pull a trigger with a cast on.

You break dudes leg. Defense is lowered. RP Reason: Hard to run away when being shot at with a cast on your leg.

Those are just a couple examples. And I also think that it shouldn't be allowed to increase a stat over a certain range. And the stats that are increased should be, as described in a post above, determined by how many hits given to hits taken the winner had during the fight.

Actually, I like the idea of certain features stopping at made - it gives players more choice.

In the mob, not everyone became made ; not everyone even wanted the responsibility to be made. Here, however, there is absolutely no feasible reason not to just continually advance, and the position of made man loses it's importance as it's just another rung on the ladder.

If a system was created whereby those who wanted to be the best prize fighters couldn't do so if they advanced to made, it could make the game a much richer tapestry (along with some other ideas). Discounting forum activity, everyone is chasing the same goal - to rank. If there were other alternatives, I think it would be very interesting!

You do make a good point, but the fact remains that even though it would allow a much richer tapestry, there's no real reason to do it, since in real life a made man could do street fighting, just like a thug.