Flaws make a man. Perfection is inhuman.

There's around 15 people or so OWP doesn't that make it unfair for those who can't get those bg's? Thought it was suppose to be a level playing field :|

This is the most asinine thing I've ever read. THOSE people didn't have wills. THOSE people either earned the money, received donations, or amassed the money over time with hard work and the dedication of those who work under them.

How is it not a level playing field? Because you're not a Godfather? Because no one wants to give you a handout? Because you haven't earned the money and set aside funds for your own bodyguards?

The people who are OWP got there not because of some MafiaReturns instated "Welcome Back" Bodyguard Charity Fund. I don't know why the message still hasn't got across.

If your crewleader wants you to be protected with more bodyguards, he or she will make it so. If your friends want you to be protected with more bodyguards, they will make it so. If you work hard enough to buy your own bodyguards, you'll get them, but it will be a slow and arduous process. You complain that wacking doesn't take hard work anymore, and then want to make everything else easy?

No.

No wills.

Alright so other's get hand outs and other's get screwed on it. That's what I'm getting from that argument gingerale. Maybe they did bust their ass to deserve but whose to say others haven't? It's a game of favorites which puts many at a disadvantage no matter what group is in power and what not. Maybe a BG cap for those that aren't at least made man and then another for those that aren't Cl's? How about that? Makes perfect sense to me.

That's life. Some people are poor, and some people get a little help from their friends. If you're so pissed about it, don't offer your services as a hired gun unless you get something in return. Its that simple. Money makes the world go 'round. If you suck at negotiating terms for you services, that's not something the game should correct.

Besides, the only way to make your suggestion "FAIR" is to make wills available to those characters who don't have friends, or who haven't garnered the trust needed to be given extra protection. If your 'peeps' don't find you worthy of protection, why should the game be altered to keep your ass alive?

Again, its asinine. Yeah, there's favorites in the game... but what you fail to realize is that by putting wills into the game, those people who have a ton of bodyguards will still have a ton of bodyguards, still more than you, and it will just shift the curve two to five million dollars to the right.

WILLS ARE STUPID.

You come back, and you have a will. You get three million dollars. JoeSchmoe comes back, and he has a will. He gets three million dollars, plus another 5 million from his crewleader and friends.

Its not JoeSchmoe's fault that he's better at networking and taking care of himself than you are. But you put in wills, and he STILL has more than you. How does this LEVEL the playing field? IT DOESN'T!

I can't say this is the case with you, but in the past, I have given substantial amounts of start up funds to people who have joined my family. Problem is, I won't give it to any asshat I don't trust. I give it to people whose past characters (or family lines if you want to RP it) have substantially benefitted me or my family and have gained my trust to know that they're not going to fuck up and stab me in the back.

If you don't know anyone who is willing to put the same confidence in you, I hardly see how that's the fault of the game.

You wouldn't be here if you were one of the 'favorites' who got all the bodyguards/money. So perhaps there's a more common denominator you should evaluate here.

I understand all your points but please continue to get pissed about this. Anyway I never said I was a gun for my family or any other's just seemed like the easiest example. Anyways... what's harder to kill a Gangster with 0 bgs or maybe a Gangster with like idk 5? Ofcourse the one with 5 so you have to train even more to kill them.

Now let's say you got joeschmoe who has 13 million to my 5 million. He has around 14 bg's and I have 6. Now he's going to have to work even harder to get a better gun than he would have if I had 0. Makes sense? Yes it does.

Now since you hate wills why not limit the bgs to idk 10 for wise guy and below then like 25 to made man and up unless a CL.

LOLZ at getting pissed. Anyone disagrees with you and all of a sudden they're pissed just because you're not making sense? LOEFFINGL.

You never said you were a gun on this character but you've mentioned at least twice now that crewleaders ask you to come hit for them. I don't think they're asking you to hit because of your extensive RP skills, so pardon my expansive jump of obviously flawed logic.

Now let's say you got joeschmoe who has 13 million to my 5 million. He has around 14 bg's and I have 6. Now he's going to have to work even harder to get a better gun than he would have if I had 0. Makes sense? Yes it does.

Not quite sure what you meant by this. Now you're bringing wacking into a full debate on wills. Why should he have to work harder to train his gun despite how many bodyguards you have. Unless he's shooting at you. And who the hell is shooting at you unless you're doing something you shouldn't be? Maybe I missed the point of this and it could very well be that I just didn't read through it enough to get your intent. Moving on.

You started a suggestion about wills, and now you're bringing it to a suggestion about bodyguard limitation. Fine, I'll address that. If people have the money to pay for bodyguards, why shouldn't they be allowed to buy them? Why limit them? Bodyguards take money to maintain, money to purchase. They pay good money to be protected. Why take that away from them, for what they've earned either through their own hard work, leadership, or savvy friend and business deals?

The mafia is a buddy buddy organization. Friends get protected.

I'm sorry, but your entire argument and subsequent replies sound to me like nothing more than whining that people don't want to give you money. There's probably a reason for that. The game isn't here to make you rich and make you the king of mafia. Its here to make you work toward an end goal. Some people have worked and networked and gain financial rewards due to their negotiations and circle of comrades. I suggest you take a suggestion from their hard work. The game should not be set to correct the social and functional inadequacies of players.

and now you're bringing it to a suggestion about bodyguard limitation. Fine, I'll address that. If people have the money to pay for bodyguards, why shouldn't they be allowed to buy them? Why limit them? Bodyguards take money to maintain, money to purchase. They pay good money to be protected. Why take that away from them, for what they've earned either through their own hard work, leadership, or savvy friend and business deals?

Because you stated that thugs shouldn't be walking around with ass loads of bodyguards yet they do all the time. Kudos there.

LOLZ at getting pissed. Anyone disagrees with you and all of a sudden they're pissed just because you're not making sense? LOEFFINGL.

WHEN YOU'RE TYPING LIKE THIS IT MEANS YOU'RE MORE THAN LIKELY SHOUTING. Which you've done, so why raise your voice if you're not being bothered and we're just talking about the situation?

I'm sorry, but your entire argument and subsequent replies sound to me like nothing more than whining that people don't want to give you money. There's probably a reason for that. The game isn't here to make you rich and make you the king of mafia. Its here to make you work toward an end goal. Some people have worked and networked and gain financial rewards due to their negotiations and circle of comrades. I suggest you take a suggestion from their hard work. The game should not be set to correct the social and functional inadequacies of players.

I'm not whining because I don't have bodyguards. I get killed, I start over. Fairly easy but when I see people who have ass loads of bg's and just sign on so they don't go IA it makes me wonder what made them earn those bg's when there are countless people who work hard everyday but don't get it.

The reason I jumped to the bodyguard limiting is because you brought up that thugs shouldn't have ass loads of bodyguards but they do so I made the suggestion of limitation since you think it's not right for everyone to be able to save up for their next account and have bg's like some do just because they have "friends".

Not quite sure what you meant by this. Now you're bringing wacking into a full debate on wills. Why should he have to work harder to train his gun despite how many bodyguards you have. Unless he's shooting at you. And who the hell is shooting at you unless you're doing something you shouldn't be? Maybe I missed the point of this and it could very well be that I just didn't read through it enough to get your intent. Moving on.

Now for acting like you know everything have you thought of war? What if I'm trying to kill him and vice versa. Makes it more leveled out that he/she has to train even more than they would if I had none. Then again I forgot war doesn't exist right? (Sarcasim just in case you need help with it.)

This is hilarious.

Bottom line to all of this is... if people have the resources to money and can afford bodyguards, they deserve to have as many as they can afford and maintain. No one else got there due to wills, and if someone returns as a thug and get 10 bodyguards? So be it. I don't agree with the notion that someone at that level NEEDS the protection, but they've done something right in their circle of friends and can afford it, fine. They're nobodys who don't need a big ass group of bodyguards. Its true. I don't think thugs should buy bodyguards. But if I wanted to end that, I'd make a suggestion. I'm hardly afraid of posting in this forum.

Furthermore, they didn't buy it with a game implemented will. Why should you be entitled to an inheritance? Especially since they'd be just as entitled to one and STILL have more bodyguards than you... making your point pointless. (Oh, and when I typed "STILL" I wasn't shouting. Tee hee.)

So if a thug has 10 bodyguards and you're in war and you can't shoot him, boo hoo. Doesn't mean that the game needs to correct your financial hardships.

And I don't act like I know everything, but it seems like you're moseying away from the point and instead of addressing the points I'm making, you're criticizing my typeface and making allegations alluding to the fact that you know me personally and how I operate. Not the best way to win a debate. I never said anything about knowing everything. I merely stated I didn't understand the intent of the paragraph. War imminent or obvious, the point is still clouded. What you stated was

Now he's going to have to work even harder to get a better gun than he would have if I had 0.

I don't understand what point you were trying to make here. Of course he has to work harder to kill you since you have bodyguards. That's what bodyguards do. Why shouldn't he, or you for that matter HAVE (again, not shouting) to work harder to kill people with more bodyguards. Again, I may have missed the point, but I think you didn't state your intent well. But again, unless you're screwing up, he shouldn't be shooting at you, and if there is a war, and he spent all his earned or given money on bodyguards instead of training... so what? I don't see what you're trying to say.

AND I TYPE IN ALL CAPS TO ACCENTUATE POINTS THAT YOU SEEM TO HAVE GLOSSED OVER IN YOUR READING AND RETORTS HOPING THAT THE ALTERATION IN STYLE WILL GRAB YOUR ATTENTION AND HOLD IT. Lolz.

I'm not whining because I don't have bodyguards. I get killed, I start over.

Good. When you die, start over. Without a will. Like you've done for a long time, and like you'll continue to do. Maybe next time around someone will evaluate your worth and decide you're deserving of a few bodyguards to keep you alive. But if it hasn't happened so far, I'm not too hopeful that it will happen next time.

I'm saying that if he is so amazingly graced with ass tons of bodyguards and I'm not yet war breaks out I get fucked nonetheless. Just like every other person who is at the disadvantage. If I have to spell it out in crayon I can.

Spell it out in neon paints if you want. You're not getting the underlying point.

They're not given anything special from the game that you're not. They got it from friends or had people hold their money while they made a new account. Make friends, or get shot and make a new account. You make it seem like they're committing some terrible wrong. They're not.

They're not doing anything 'unfair'. You could also find people to give you money. If no one wants to give you money, its not the people with bodyguards fault, its not the game's fault.

The same options available to them are available to you.

So if you get fucked over because you don't have friends to lend you money, maybe you should get better friends.

I just don't see why a will is a big deal. So far I've gotten nothing more than "Oh the game doesn't need more money." Why the fuck not? It's growing so it will have more and more if anyone truly didn't want that there'd be a reset causing everyone to rebuild or the godfathers would have a mass war to rid any stagnancy and mass accumulation of wealth.

The game doesn't need more money. There's nothing to do with money BUT buy bodyguards. The game economy isn't equated just yet. There are multitudes of ways to make money, and not nearly the same amount of ways to spend money without profit potential. Once there's a balance to the economy, ways to spend as well as earn, then the reasoning "The game doesn't need more money" will lose merit.

Wills, however, will probably never garner great support despite an economic balance.

The money will be pumped out just as quick as in if it get's put in a will though. If someone uses that money to buy bgs then fine, if they use it for shooting ranges fine, if they just donate it to get good in with their new family then fine. It gets out of the game just as fast as saved plus you have to pay just to save it anyway and you can't use it until you die. So what's wrong with that? I don't see the "too much money" argument anymore.

I'm sorry you don't see it. Its evident all around you.

Bottom line, wills aren't going to be implemented. Talk about imbalance when you're not suggesting worsening it.

I will say that I like this suggestion for nothing other than the debating. I look forward to next time. I'm sure you'll get the last word in.

I don't disagree and agree on somethings you've said but I don't see how it could imbalance it anymore.

The closest thing there will be to wills is already in place... It's that nice little start up fund your previous character hands to your new character.

Skate, you've already admitted that there are too many bodyguards in the game. That is the evidence of there being too much money in the game. With a will feature there would be more money available, and thus more bodyguards.

The Soup Nazi said it best but I'm going to make it fit here. NO WILL FOR YOU! Next!