What has driven me to this thread is how we seem to become so embroiled on being "realistic" we've forgotten what made this game worth playing to begin with. This actually sounds pretty fucking sad when I type it out, but in for a penny, in for a pound and all that; when I joined this game it was to play at being a gangster in the mafia. The idea that I could go on the internet, pretend I was in the mafia like I'd seen in films was somewhat alluring and mafia.org (original) seemed excellent to me.

That feeling lasted for maybe 2 or 3 accounts. Then the fact I was viewed as an idiot began to ruin it and then desire not to maintain that trend became more of the driving force behind my mafia career. To save on some words, over time I obviously began to experience mafia.org for all it was worth and made something of a name for myself. Wonderful.

Anyway, I'm not about to tell you original mafia.org was perfect, because it was a million miles away from being perfect. Sometimes it was mind numbingly dull just like it can be here. But the real difference I find myself pondering between then and now is just how fucking pedantic everyone seems to have become.

I anticipate that some of you are sharpening your knives at this point but keep them sheathed for a moment longer. I know you constantly hear about how important role-play is in this game and there are a whole host of people who will dictate to you how you should talk in the streets, act in the HQ and talk in mail. But what seems to be forgotten through all of this is that you're actually playing a game here. The game isn't who can be the most formal and respectful in their communications, it is about getting power and maintaining it. The mafia is about power, money and influence.

The purest part of the game to me is when I see someone who is clearly interested and enthusiastic make a thread in the Streets. Usually this will be about beating the shit out of someone or going Scarface on an entire fictional family because they've seen this in mafia films. This is what people with power can do.

Sure, we know that isn't the done thing from anyone, but this is what being in the Mafia means to most people. That is what it enables you to do. It isn't about being 100% respectful at all times to everyone you encounter. It isn't about acting honourably in every situation. That isn't why I came to Mafia.org and I'd be surprised if it was why most of you ended up here. I also doubt that everyone in the real mafia would act anything fucking like how we act here. The vast majority of these people were poor and uneducated after all. They were not like what I see in the street. Why are we like this?

I could be wrong, and maybe I haven't evolved with the user base, but when I see people arguing over the tiniest minute details of what a Gangster may or may not have done, I want to pull my hair out. I wish we would focus on the fact that this game is about power and that is what should drive it, not bullshit role-play minutiae that people tend to emphasise.

I started this by talking about being "realistic" and to most people here this is addressing people by their rank and not forgetting your sirs and ma'ams. To me, this isn't what this game should ever be about.

I could be wrong and maybe the game has evolved into something else entirely where these things are paramount. But if that is the case then it is going to be dull as shit and (just to set myself up) I'll be on the next boat out of here because I came to play at being in the Mafia.

~T~

Being realistic is one of the most important aspects of this game purely on the basis that without it, this community ceases to be one of mafia roleplay. If we're at that stage, it would probably be easier just to play something like the Godfather where you can be a Mobster without having to worry about the realism factor.

Some things, for example, really get on my tits. Stuff posted in that thread I wrote. There are certain things that I will always get my elitist old player hat on in terms of bad roleplay and realisim because they really do compromise the integrity of the game. Things that are either so anti-mafia that it just makes me want to bite stuff, or phrases and scenarios that are so mind boggingly illogical that it makes you wonder if they are the product of monkeys locked in rooms with typewriters.

However, I will agree that when some people get bogged down in disagreeing over frankly irrelevant details, it takes away the fun; and even the roleplay, especially when said people spout total fallacies.

An example is the debate that ranges from time to time over unsponsoreds. According to some, unsponsoreds should be under no circumstances left alive because their earning money on turf owned by a boss was highly disrespectful. Let's actually apply that to a real life situation. Some random crook, let's call him Bill, robs $150 from a Convenience store on the shore of Lake Michigan. Capone, in a fit of rage that someone dare rob a store in his native Chicago, tracks the man down and kills him. Can't see that happening to be honest. It's a totally pedantic argument that has no basis in fact.

Similarly, it's an absolute given that you can't disrespect a Made Man, because that was a rule in the mafia. If you do happen to disrespect a made man, you won't get stoned alive for being a rule breaker, you'll get more criticism for being a bad roleplayer. Hang on, why's that? You create a simplistic game with minimalistic features in an effort to create freedom and an open sandbox scenario; then you berate someone for utilising that freedom and not acting like everyone else. If someone is doing something completely unbeffiting of a mobster, fair enough, but more often than note they are just taking the path less travelled. Do you honestly think in the history of Italian American organised crime, no mafia member has been disrespectful, disobeyed his boss or set up his own organistion without the nod? Of course it's happened, which means when someone does it here it's not bad roleplay. Mugs.

Again, on this topic. I remember a few months ago TR 'gravepissing' and there being a massive outcry from sanctimonious arseholes that this was shocking roleplay, completely unbefitting conduct of a Godfather and all the rest of it. Can you point me to the mafia commandment that says 'Thou shalt not mock thy vanquished foe upon his funeral pyre'. Even if it did exist, the fact a Godfather was an involved party transcends anything, pretty much. Anything a Godfather does (within reason) is basically a-ok roleplay. Why? Because they have power and they are utilising it. As Tallien rightly points out,  the mob both in real life and here is/was more about money influence and power than anything else. Loyalty, Honour and all the rest of it were frankly notional concepts that were often discarded in favour of a more handsome profit margin.

I've gone off on a massive tangent and probably sidestepped the driving issue behind this thread entirely, but I feel it's a decent enough point.

"...because I came to play at being in the Mafia."

Me too, and for that illusion to stay intact, some attention is needed to preserve the realism; but too much and it becomes cloying, unnecessary and the mafia equivalent of 'political correctness', and such an approach probably does as much to strangle roleplay than it does to enhance it.

I see some very fair points here. I really do. I've wanted to talk about a subject for a while now which really irritates me. Rather than set up a complete new thread. I will talk about it here. As I think it has some relevance.

I wanted to talk about one thing in particular. The whole 'soap box' thing. I mean, come on. I've never heard once about a mafioso, let alone a Mafia Boss, grab some random soap box from behind the trash can to stand on and address the masses on a much anticpated topic as the auth of their Captain or whatever. In the most well mannered and and respectful speech of their lives. I really can not understand it. There are other ways of role playing around it. So why is it that the MR community keep doing it?

Tradition maybe? It's what the others done before them? I don't know why. I for instance in my recent 'The Godmother, The RHM and The Bet' thread used a different method of addressing the masses by playing it out as if I was talking to our family in a the family restaurant/meeting place. It's as easy as the whole soap box thing and inkeeping with role play. In my own opinion.

A lot of people though, myself included are bound to mess up somewhere along the lines though. It is hard for people who are not devout mafia braniacs to keep up with role play through a whole well thought out and written thread. I guess what i'm saying is a little le-way should be allowed. As long as it isn't completely ilogical as you say.

I agree with the primary point of this topic though. It should mostly be about power and money. Taxes are a good way of doing this. However un-necessary they maybe. It promotes the fact that the person implementing it has both power and the desire for money. As long as you have something worth taxing that is. There was a decent thread by you, Noah I think. In the suggestions forum about evening out which city has what perks. This would bring about some decent questions from the city heads about if and how they can tax. At the same time though, it could make the whole taxing thing a tad irrelevant.

I guess it's about the right people getting in to the right position of power. Then how they use it, keep it and make money from it.

For some reason there. What should have been restaurant / meeting place turned into restaurant***Jonoeting place.

According to some, unsponsoreds should be under no circumstances left alive because their earning money on turf owned by a boss was highly disrespectful. Let's actually apply that to a real life situation. Some random crook, let's call him Bill, robs $150 from a Convenience store on the shore of Lake Michigan. Capone, in a fit of rage that someone dare rob a store in his native Chicago, tracks the man down and kills him. Can't see that happening to be honest. It's a totally pedantic argument that has no basis in fact.

Reply by: Noah-Levenstein

It most certainly has happened in American Mafia history. Little Nicky Scarfo was nototious for shaking down anybody associated with crime during his reign, even small-timers. Those who did not pay were murdered. Not trying to pick apart your argument, and it is an extreme scenario, but I don't believe that it takes away from any realism associated with a crime-based online RP game.

Nicky Scarfo was notorious for not putting up with any shit, but I think it would be a stretch to suggest he put every criminal operating in Philly who wasn't associated with him to death on the basis that it was insulting to him. That is the equivalent of what some here argue!

Not a stretch. Documented fact. Much of it came out in his trial from his own people's testimony, and there is at least one book that I know of that goes into greater detail about it. Insane yes, but it has been known to happen.

Now is it believable that he was able to track down EVERY criminal operating small time crimes in his domain and shake them down? No. But if he caught wind of one operating in his territory, they were told to pay street tax or they were killed. The way the ranking system in this game is set up, it would be pretty obvious who is earning money illegally on the streets just by monitoring their progress.

I get what you're saying. It's why I occasionally sarcastically remark in the streets that criminals like ourselves should be more respectful and nice and kind. Although you might respect those in your family, you shouldn't respect those from a rival family. You don't be nice to them. You want them all to be poor or dead. Weak. You might keep your mouth shut to save yourself from punishment, but you won't go around actively encouraging your enemies to prosper.

I care about what happens to my family, which basically means New York, but I'd much prefer it if everybody else were to just shoot themselves and each other in the face. True story.

Yeah, maybe this is getting a little off topic here, but I have to agree with Awesome on this one.  While I respect everyone who out ranks me, and don't really wish them all death, I really only care about my family succeeding.  At the same time, we're all in this together, and people prosper best with the help of others.

Other than that, I think I agree with pretty much everyone on the topic of realism, respect, and fun.  Let's keep it realistic and fun, so a slight disrespect gets a slap in the face.  Sometimes, though, someone goes overboard and needs to be shot.

Coincidentally enough, I read this thread directly after reading the rose in the streets. I found it to be well-written, kept my attention and wanting to read more.  Yet, what do we find at the bottom of the 2 parts?

that was beautifull....

mail me sometime and well talk
Reply by: Don_Carlochi at Oct 03, '09 05:41
 

i know sometimes grammer can be hard but this was great and i like he use dialouge
Reply by: ShadowLurker at Oct 03, '09 12:00

Excuse me please people but think about this.  This woman is writing out the story of part of her mafia history - gasp YES - an honest to God roleplay, then suddenly we have someone wanting her to mail him and someone else critiquing the language with which it was written, although in a positive manner.

And by the way, both of them misspelled and had punctuation errors if we really want to get picky.

First of all, it was so well done that I didn't notice any poor grammer etc., but what if it isn't done?  I would imagine the writer or perhaps this was going to be a more then one person roleplay is feeling like "Oh great, my next piece is going to look super after that.  If I were here and could, I'd probably want to stick my pen into their body parts.  But anyway, I am rambling.  What I want to conclude with is that I agree with Tallien and show a recent example of one of the reasons people are turned off  by roleplay in the streets in my opinion.

*If I were her  \o/

I have the same opinion Tallien.

The concepts you pointed out above is what made this game in the first place. However, most of those concepts no longer exist because the administration, along with the user-base, are going through an evolution. If you compare now, from back in the day, then you'll see what I'm talking about. No shit, right? But really, look closer. Look at the waves of power throughout time. I believe the true leaders right now have a bigger agenda than to simply play this game. In a OOC point of view, I see three foundations being put together over a large period of time. These three foundations are: stabilization, accumulation, and tradition.  These foundations will be combine as one before this era will ever come to an end. As a result, you'll have a single strong foundation that is left standing to pave the way for other generations to come. In other words, the modified concepts that we're practicing today are for the future of this game. I can go further into detail but hopefully you got the main point I'm trying to convey. After pissing in the wind for longest time, I finally understand this myself.

All in all, I believe all of this is a derivative from the administration.