To be or not to be a click monkey?

Hazel walks up to his familiar bench and sits at his chess table

So I sit here today after giving this world of ours some fair time and energy. I have observed and utilized a number of different approaches to our way of life. But one thing has struck me; this is fortified by some of the goings on as of late. It at the moment doesn't pay to be an outspoken person in our world. My family knows from personal experience ones words can often be confused and when someone of less than normal patience gets them wrong it can mean death. I have seen people rise to the ranks of Consig and Don with very little if any voice at all. I have witnessed a much more alarming number of people die for what is seemingly very little comment at all about a potentially taboo subject. My concern is this, we all in our HQ's (our meaning that once you accept into a family it becomes a family place which you have to assume responsibility for) for the most part push our younger members to be vocal and enjoy all aspects of our world. Some even have limits associated with ranking past WG. BUT how can we expect to breed anything but a functioning click if we continue to belittle, berate and kill those whom have the gumption to express and stand on a limb in our streets? We can sit around our tables and desk's yelling as loud as we would like You have to have a voice in our world to progress however if they see that speaking in the streets can get them ridiculed and killed while they notice others progressing just fine without, what are they to think?

Personally I am not advocating one way or the other, in my family's old age I have learned to accept people for both their limitations and strengths. I do how ever see fault in the general prevalence of pushing people to speak while the actions of the majority seem to contradict that. This is more of a question or "topic for discussion" than anything else. I do not see fit to tell others how to run, motivate or control their lives or members. Just would like to air something I have noticed over time. I am rambling now; something my family excels at apparently.

looks over at the crowd to see if anyone is going to sit across at the chess table

~HF~

As the saying goes: Does as I say, not as I do.

Oddly enough I was pondering this same thought earlier today.

When a young gangster takes to the streets with something to say, he should be allowed to say it without fear of reprocution. Unless its something that's slanderous against the higher ups of the game. If he or she speaks, and its hard to understand, someone from their crew should take the time to educate them, to help them learn the proper ways of speaking in the streets. We all need to remember not everyone is blessed with the gift of gab, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be heard. As you said, its encouraged for people to come to the streets, but if they're berated, they might not return again. If a young gangster from my crew where to come out to the streets and attempt to tell his story, I would listen, and then I would offer to help him or her in anyway possible. I would be happy to see them trying to get their words out, knowing that your first words can be the very hardest to say. Not everyone will agree with me, but that's the stance I take when it comes to dealing with the folks that work for me.

Well, personally I agree and disagree on some points made so far. The ways and times of "this thing of ours" are based on voices. So, I believe in minimum requirements for high ranks.  However that being said, there should be a set up for a struggling young mafioso to go over his stories, speeches or what have you with someone in his family.  Volunteers or appointed people to help him.

Again about the ways and times, how many  mafioso do you believe we get straight off the boats at tender young ages who have had a full education - their families in the old countries could not afford such a thing. I know children of my ancestors worked vineyards and other jobs rather then schooling to help support the family.  Whatever schooling they got was a few minutes here and there from their parents who weren't too well-educated themselves. And once they are here, immediately to work they go.

Therefore if a mafioso makes a speech or spins a yarn, why should any of us pick at the way it is spelled or punctuated, let's take a look at what we can do about schooling them and yes, Azeraxtwo I would agree with you, tho know of no specific situations surrounding that issue

Coming out onto our streets is possibly one of the most difficult aspects of our society. Yes we are taught that to make it in our life we need a voice, but we are also taught that when we wish to discuss things we need to be mindful of what we say. While those who are of a certain age in our life style have been regular to our streets, there are those fresh off the boats and this is where I believe the problem lies.

There have been in days gone by gangsters who have spoken like true veterans of our society, obviously these gangsters have had family involved with our business for sometime and these gangsters have learnt from their journals, but then we have those who are truly new to our shores and just don't understand why a hot headed gangster can't shoot off their mouth from time to time.

So you end up with a certain dilemma, those fresh of the boats and those not so fresh stay quiet for a period of time, only finding their voice when they are getting to the lofty ranks of mademan, however these people can also get confused. While being made gives you a degree of leeway, it still doesn't mean you can berate everyone around you. Also what you get with a complex society like ours is various opinions. Thus leading to arguments rather than discussions.

I understand the points that are trying to be made here, but I don´t remember anybody dying for respectfully debating a mobster of equal rank. Most of these deaths happen because of low rankers disrespecting higher rankers and almost every time Leaders. So it´s not for being vocal that they die, but for questioning a higher authority.

Personally, I often wonder what H_F is smoking when he comes out in the streets.  Not because he doesn't make sense, but because he does.  Which is shocking to me.  But anyway, this is a topic I have thought about a lot over my time here.  My father thought about this, his father thought about this.  So, I wanted to offer my two cents on this subject.

I think it's absolutely...hold on a second, I have to go do a petty...okay, absolutely ridiculous that we spend out tim...um, felony time...our time sitting around waiting for some alarm to go off...ooops, that's my attack timer, gotta go get an IA...time sitting around waiting for some timer to go off...hold a sec, petty time...go off, and don't do anything else...dang, sorry, have to go say "good point" to some street speach...okay, don't do anything else with our time. 

It's mind blowing to me how it has become so easy to gain high ranks in this thing of ours by doing so little in terms of our interactions with eachother.  We are getting very anti-social.  We stand in line outside convenience stores and post offices, and don't hardly communicate at all.  That's disappointing to me.  I prefer to interact with my fellow mobsters, have some fun, and not worry about that dang alarm clock that goes off.  Rank a little slower, gain a little experience, and have some fun.  Nothing wrong with that.

First generation gangsters obviously are going to have difficulty in finding where the line is on what you can say and what you can't. Other than careful warnings and tutelage this tends to be a lesson that needs to be learned through experience. As someone previously pointed out, most deaths aren't for someone trying to trigger a debate; they are for calling someone else a moron, who is more important than they are.

Now the awarding of rank based on limited or no interaction in the Streets does not necessarily mean that they haven't earned their rank in other ways. At the moment I do not have a requirement for street speaking in any of my promotions. It helps, but for now I do not treat it as essential to becoming a Made Man or even a Capo. If you want to go much further than that then I think you should start looking to the streets, but the reason you should be doing that at Capo rather than Gangster, is because you've already made your bones. I trust that member to be capable of going to the streets and not calling Aurora an idiot. They've earned that trust.

I do not stop my crew from coming to the street at lower ranks if they choose to, because that shows they have a genuine interest, but I won't tell them that they must do so either. This is because I do not think they should have to until they have leadership or advisory aspirations, i.e. Boss, Consigliere or Don.

I've heard talking in the Streets as walking something of a tightrope and I think that is a fair analogy. When I was first making my name on the Streets (and you can read my early posts for proof of this) I was a lot more tolerant of those around me when they were wrong than I am now, because I do not have to be. My word carries weight because of my status and that is respected.

The long and short of this is that speaking well in the Streets is extremely beneficial to the individual anyway, so if they are looking to progress and make a legacy of their own it is something they will have to become involved with at some point.

~T~

Me, I don't talk unless I think what I have to say, is something that I would want to hear/read.

I'd much rather not have a mess of random babbling heads mouthing off the first thing that comes to mind.

Most, if not all, topics are up for debate as long as you are able to display a bit of subtlety and tact. The problem is that sometimes people don't know the boundaries or don't know how to discuss something respectfully with those of rank.

There's actually nothing wrong with that, as long as they're willing to learn over the generations. Eventually they'll get it. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with dealing out punishments either to those that aren't able to find the balance and end up offending ranks. In most cases though, people try and give some leeway, but if it's continually breached, punishment should - and generally will - be forthcoming.

It's the best way to learn in this case.

With regards to pushing people to speak, no-one should ever be pushed, no matter their rank. However, if they want to end up at the top of the status pile (ie, CL), it should be a necessity that they are capable of having a voice, forming their own opinions and putting those across clearly. To me anyway.

In our world, at least for as long as I have been around, I have seen very few people be killed just for what they say in the streets. People do die  for posting thigs, but that is normally because they went about it the wrong way. In my opinion, people should be allowed to say pretty much anything on the streets, as long as they are respectful. I personally would prefer to not see things on the streets that have no intelligence about them, but that is going to happen. With that said, I can see where HF is coming from. Some of our leaders should be more present in the streets, and they should set an example for the younger players, stating that it is ok to speak their mind, but once again, as long as it is respectful and somewhat intelligent.

Hazelspoon, friend of the cow - I believe the issue lies in the bovine see, bovine do analogy of our leadership. The youth of this fine grazery can only copy that which is perceived as leadership and as it stands street discussion does not seem to be championed. I see our boss Tallien speaking all the time, so I feel I should try to do the same (he shouts at me so I must). This is not a criticism of our fine leaders, merely an observation. Afterall who is this small time cow to question the actions of crimelords and perhaps this is a choice they have made. Now I must go back to my crayons.

After listening to what everyone has to say, G wants to add his 2 cents.

As I have no bloodline in this thing of ours I have my own opinion on this. Me personally didn't feel that as a lower rank that my voice would not really hold any weight behind it so people would just bypass what I had to say on the streets especially with no ancestors here. So I haven't really said much but now that I am progressing within my crew I feel that I have to have more of a voice especially if I want to show my CL that I am worthy of the honour of taking on extra responsibility within the crew and maybe one day have the chance to have an associate working under me.

I think each person will deal with things differently and they may not have the confidence to come and make a speech on the street do you blame them because the first time I said anything on these streets I felt sweat dripping down my face and my heart pounding as I first opened my mouth to speak, I still get butterflies now but now I know this is what I want to do if I am to acheive the things I want to.

Everyone needs time to grow into there voice some do it quicker than others, but I feel if you have aspiration of getting to the top you should work on your public speaking because your crew will always be looking for your voice to follow.