This is always fun to debate, now for my slant on it.

The only way to get to made man is to be promoted, so if the rogue or rogues are mademan and above and all come from the same family then yeah I'd be of the opinion that the leader needs to be examined a little closer. That being said there are very few if any actual rogues. Most who buy out and attempt to embark on a killing spree do so out of boredom and frustration.

Some feel slighted at being passed over for auth, is that the crew leaders fault no. It's your own for just not being good enough. Everyone else might feel you are, you might feel you are. But if ya haven't proved yourself in the eyes of your leader then so sorry, so sad your not getting it and going rogue is not going to help your case.

Some are the children of those lost in a war. They feel they must try to avenge their fallen family. Sure there are ways to do it, but if the person your after is still running their family after you've had the time to get to a position to take the shot. Chances are they've also been putting the work in and will be even harder to kill. So the best thing to do here would be to not rogue, but to get auth build a family and then go after said person.

Then there are the very select few, those who have bought out, have their pro lined up and embark on a systematic take down of a certain faction, while on the face these are the actions of the rogue. In the background there may be others pulling the strings, directing the shots.

The only way to get to made man is to be promoted, so if the rogue or rogues are mademan and above and all come from the same family then yeah I'd be of the opinion that the leader needs to be examined a little closer.

I disagree. I disagree because these days it is so easy to rank to made man and prove your worthy of made man. I mean, how can a leader look more closely at who is good enough to be made? How can a leader predict who will and will not rogue. MOST of the time people rogue after they have reached made man, but the decision does come after they hit made man as well. Like when you said someone might feel slighted by being passed over for auth. Well you need to be atleast Made Man for auth, they don't get it, THEN they rogue.

So for you to disagree with me is for you to also say that the leader needs to be examined more closely. If they are making it easy for their members to become made then theya re making it easier for rogues to slip through the net. One thing that honestly astonishes me is the fact people say it's easy to get made man. Made man should never be easy to get, you should have to prove your worth, your crew leader, right hand man, left hand man should all know who you are if they are going to bestow your button upon you.

If a crew leader is just promoting people for the sake of promoting then yeah it's entirely their own fault. They are showing that it's easy to get mademan, so if they are willing to just hand out buttons as if they are candy then their family may also feel that they are willing to hand out auth to anyone who ahs reached the rank.

Can't we just say Rourke is to blame and call it a day?

Rourke silently sneaks into the shadows, twirling his mustache between his two fingers. He pulls out his journal and continues writing down thinly veiled threats against Marietta along with his future plans for world destruction through the resurrection of BrianRourke (GRHS).

Dante, being a man from a long history of mafiosi, your telling me from what your ancestors taught you, that it is hard to get made man? Let's be honest now. Just because it is easy to get made man, doesn't necessarily mean that leaders are not doing their job by making sure you deserve it.

You can prove your worth in a family very fast if you know the community as well as most do. If someone does not and cannot get made man easily and their family has been around these parts for years then I am sorry.

Boaby, the main goal here is to stop a rogue without giving the rogue
the satisfaction of knowing that once they die, their leader will be
dead aswell correct? Well, in order to do this, we cannot let the rogue
have the capability of possibly getting the leader shot by merely
gathering some lowly gangsters looking for a purpose in life to help
him.

Not really, the main goal here is theoretical discussion about blame. As I say, that lies with the rogue in my opinion. I don't think anyone is saying that their leader would be dead as well. Merely that they are answerable. If they are answerable, then yes, death is always a possibility if other cities follow that path.

That doesn't mean there is any hard and fast rule. Quite simply, if someone's powerful enough, they could have a rogue a month and nothing happen. Noob McJones and his Seattle Syndicate might not be afforded the same luxury. By the same token, you can't always take the same stance the other way...that CLs shouldn't be held accountable due to rogues with a vendetta against them.

It might be idealistic to never allow rogues to affect the longevity of a leadership, but the fact is they do (or did when they were more frequent). Why? Because others have the power to hold them accountable, if not directly so.

Just to stress, incase it's not clear, I'm not saying CLs should face some form of punishment for rogues, only that they may and that it's right that the buck stops on their doorstep. They're a leader for a reason and it comes with the job.

We seem to be agreeing on a level, and going in circles. I will stop my debating, unless someone says the Crewleader should die because of a rogue.

Not to start a fight or debate, but more as a question. Why shouldn't a crew leader die if rogues continue to come from their family, especially if it's the same person?

At a certain point a leader can be put to blame if they give the same people the chance and yet continue to mess up, especially rogue.