PJ was walking down the street. Which was a bit weird for him, usually he wibble wobbles. He must have something on his mind. He enters a bar and pulls up a stool. Talking to anyone beside him that will listen

So, yeah. I want to talk about something and I wanted a drink. So two birds with one stone. How do you feel about a mafioso next of kin joining another family or even another city from that of his father? See, I see someone being a traitor as in someone who has bought out of the family or shot one of his own. That to me is being a traitor.

However, after speaking with a couple of people it has come to my attention that they feel branded a traitor because they did not join the same organisation that their father was once a proud member of. It racks my brain that. There could be a number of factors involved. Say for instance this new young mafioso was born and raised in a different city. Or for example this person was fresh off the boat and found another family right for their personal motives.

I don't know... What do you think?

I think unless this new young mafioso has in some way helped their father deal with family business. There should be no expectation of this new mafioso for anything. Maybe their family was 'looked after' by the family when their father died? I don't know.


What do you think random person sitting next to me?

Most mafioso,s will follow on in the steps of their father/mother and go to the families that looked after their parents. Then some come to the cities looking for a new start wiping the slate clean. Its up to the individual which family they wish to serve under i dont think they should be considered as a traitor for not following in their parents footsteps.

My entire family line held firm to one man, the late Godfather Premeir. It wasn't because I was 'afraid' to step out and try another crew, or another city. The simple fact is loyalty. 

A good leader will never have to ask for loyalty, it's given to him out of respect, because he's earned it. 

I've seen bloodline's hop from one family/city to the next on countless occasions. It never bothered me, just shows you what type of leadership they've been under. To each his own.

See, that brings up another good point. Is it the new bloods personal reasons for leaving the city his father worked so hard for or is it bad leadership? Bad leadership can certainly drive a man to buy out and become a traitor to his family but does that then mean their next of kin should be labeled the same for not rejoining?

Caius, I don't think this has anything to do with the types of leaderships many of our bloodlines have worked for.

Your next of kin is your next of kin. When you die, should your son decide to enter this world we live, he will be faced with decisions and challenges to make and work through. Deciding on where to start out, who to contact, what he can offer to those he is given the opportunity to work for. NOT what a family can do for him. If your leader is babysitting your son in some hope that he will return to him one day, he needs to get back in touch with reality.

The leader of your ancestors is dead. Took the bullet. Pushing up daisies. 6 Feet under so to speak, GRTS of a great man. But take what's positive from this tragic story and look around you, You may just realize that the world is far greater than a single entity.

You call it loyalty, others the fear of getting dirty, starting a new and letting go of the hand that held you from your first day. But like you mentioned already, to each his own.

Well put, TheDean. Couldn't agree more

I don't think that someone who goes to a different city is a traitor at all. Especially if there were no families from their father's city to go back to. 

Takes another drink of his scotch before he turns and address Jelly's question.

I think it all depends on the situation.

Example 1: You joined this family very loyal then a friend gets auth in another city. You leave your kin's family, to join a friend of the family's in a different city.

or

Example 2: Maybe you severed that family and you was loyal but thing's started to go sour there at the end and you didn't end up liken the family you was in. So the son or so searched to find a family that would better suit him.

or

Example 3: You served that family a long time and you realize you will never fully go where you wanted but you know in another family you might have that chance.


All in all I don't think your a traitor, to me a traitor is someone who snitches on the family or doesn't help them in the time of war. Jumps ship after a war is over instead of dying with a family you just join a total different family to save your own ass that is traitor at its most to me.

But you die and your family want's to explore more options that's just more options.. Thats like leaving one job to go to another. You wasn't a traitor to your past just maybe better pay better offer better luck better anything.

So no I wouldn't think so.

Lefty takes another drink of his scotch and order's another one. Listening to other's opinion on this matter.

Caius reached in his pocket and pulled a smoke from his gold case, lighting it with a match and listening to the voices that were speaking in a circle around him...

Dean, we can agree to disagree. There are always, circumstances that can change things. However, when your under a leader that LOVES his members, and does anything for them, even when ruling with an iron/fair fist, you'll know it. I can count 5 such leaders currently in existance, and in previous existance from the time my bloodline came to these shores, that I know of personally. Why are they so popular? Why are there members so loyal? Why do bloodlines, and multiple generations stick with them? Because of that leadership. In the end, to each his own :)

I must agree with Caius here. Leadership has a lot to do with it. I remember reading one of my great uncles diaries a few months back. He wanted his son to move on to a "better" city. Move on and make new connections. Have his son be a different person. But low and behold, the loyalty to that person was genetic. And the next 3 generations spent time under the banner of LA. For better or for worse they stuck with them. For no reason other then loyalty. Even as my late cousin lay on his deathbed. He managed to write down that anywhere else he would have joined he would have felt terrible for not following through and joining the Animal Farm in LA. It wasn't because of what they would do for him, or how much they would give him. It was purely loyalty.

My personal belief however, is that your son or daughter is free to choose where they decide to come home. I would never hold anything against them, I think it does boil down to where your loyalties lie and what your father tells you about the world. Unless you are spending days wandering around the streets looking around for a place to call home, your father will be the most influential factor in choosing a new home.

It's all business, really. Who's to label you a traitor when you can see the grass is greener on the other side? We're all out for the better interest of our family but when we see our father or mother breaking themselves without recognition and or any sort of respect or anything from the upper echelon, then what do you expect their sons or daughters to do when the time comes?

I believe Caius could not have put it better, honestly. It's leaders and their bloodline that will hold the respect and loyalty of their family and associates throughout their bloodlines and it'll solely be accomplished through outstanding leadership and dedication to their family and associates. 

Thank you for the kind words. However, lets be frank here. We have all seen the mafioso's that will amble along and because of who there father was, expect 100 bodyguards at the rank of thug, and when they don't get it, they'll go someplace else, and start over.

When the fact of the matter is, most leaders can see through it, as they've been there, done that. All in all, loyalty is key, and leadership determines loyalty, not the other way around.

In regards to the first question whether how would feel, in all honesty I'd have no ill will towards that mafioso, if it is their choice to not follow in their fathers footsteps then so be it, I wish them luck on their venture. I also see a traitor with the way that you have described, bloodlines are not honour bound to one sole family so we can not expect each descendant to automatically want to become a part of our family.

In saying that, it could pose a problem for some. If the previous descendant played a major role in your family and had access to a lot of vital information such as a knowledge of who your hitters were, then how would you feel? Most Mafioso's leave behind journals for their next of kin, which hold masses of information on what they went through in their lifetime, if this was readily available at the hands of another family, it could be very dangerous.

It's due to this reason I agree with Caius, as a leader you must ensure your relationship with your family members is one that will not easily be forgotten, it's this relationship we have with our mobsters that will encourage or discourage their descendants to be a part of our family. Of course, we expect loyalty from our mobsters from the moment they walk into our Headquarters, however in showing that loyalty back we may have gained another member in the future.

To conclude really, I would not view it as a betrayal for one mans son or daughter to join a different family to their parent, but it would be prudent planning on your behalf to ensure that they would WANT to come to your family.

See, i've been listening here for good reasons on why leadership is a main factor on whether a next of kin would rejoin the same family their father, uncle or brother has joined. Listening to TesleR I think he hit it right on the button. Caius too there.

Fact of the matter is, this person who was previously a member of some family that their next of kin didn't join might have passed down vital information about their previous leader and his family. This could prove pivotal in future disputes and even wars. This is very valuble information. We all know this.

So is it the leaders job to ensure that this persons bloodline stays with him for the rest of the leaders and his families existance? From what i'm hearing around this here bar. I would say so.

However, what are you to do when this person joins a different family? Or even a different city? What can the leader do to ensure that this information doesn't get in to the wrong hands and be damned sure that his bloodline stays with him throughout?

I've heard the shouts of showing loyalty to his members, Ofcourse this is true. But what else?

Loyalty is genetic? Now I have heard some stupid comments in my life, but this has got to take first prize.

Many of you talk about the loyalties of your parents. YOU are NOT your parents. I have also heard that information of your late father/mother documented in diaries could be detrimental in terms of sharing information. Now if you parents were noting everything within the family business to serve as a record to their offspring, then you should really take a look at THAT leadership and see where it went wrong.

How can you people make a statement so bold as to say that because your parent were loyal, thus you are inclined to be loyal to that particular leader?

Now Caius, I am very disappointed that you would throw a statistic such as protection with regards to bodyguards being assigned to work for lower ranking members within an organization. If anything, most of those who sit well protected are the ones who come back time and time again to the same city and follow the same leadership. My question to you is why? Can you fully understand this concept?

Lets take a moment and review a situation, if a person who's father has been previously tied to say a member of an outfit running within a particular city and his son as joined that family after the untimely death of his father, why should he be given that protection? Eh, sorry Dean, I can't answer that for you. Give me another day or so, so I can try and cook up something that I could I present for our outstanding audience.

Sorry ladies and gentlemen, let me rather give you a quick scenario to make that transition a little easier for you. Perhaps your son is a learned scholar and could be seen as quite the investment for when the time is appropriate. We know that the financing of bodyguards is an expensive venture especially at a later stage of ones life and thus keeping in mind that this "investment" might blossom into something fruitful.

"I think it does boil down to where your loyalties lie and what your father tells you about the world. Unless you are spending days wandering around the streets looking around for a place to call home, your father will be the most influential factor in choosing a new home."

My question to you Mr. Huckles is, what kind of father would be a guiding influence in your progression in the life of crime? My father pressed for my education and successes in a fully functioning "law abiding" society, GRHS. But it didn't work out the way as it was intended and here I am.

My father did not document the ins and outs of the family business he worked and belonged to. He kept that with him till the day he passed on and that is a simple practice that we are ALL expected to follow.

If your leaders fear that your children may run and give away all documented findings within your families upper structure and the manner in which they do business, then your leaders need to fucking grow up and learn to differentiate who can and can't be trusted. Is this the fear that you use to try and have them keep all of you happy?

An argument like this will always be faced with people opting for your fathers loyalties versus your own ability to stand on your own two feet. Because it's easier to be given a standing ovation and welcomed by your fathers' successes than working against his evils and running from the stupidity that shadows your every existence.

I would rather have a family made up of individuals that have earned their way up the ranks of a family, shown me from day one that that they are and could very well be an investment worth nurturing, instead of a someone who couldn't stop kissing my ass not because he enjoyed ass kissing, like most of you do, but because I made the mistake of giving these members the cushy comfort zone that they took for granted and expected their children to have.

If you really want to see what this world is like, get a fucking clue, stop documenting your families business, leaders stop allowing your members access to whatever they feel they are entitled to and allow your child the freedom of choice in experiencing what really goes on in a world we live in.

Thanks TheDean.

That is pretty much exactly the answer I was looking for. Clear cut and it seems, well practiced between your bloodline.

Fact of the matter is. It doesn't matter how well your father was thought of in his family. It doesn't matter what information a leader has intrusted to them. Hell, it doesn't matter if the father was the Right Hand Man of the family.

Basically, the next of kin does not always follow the ideals of his father. Does not always have the same motives and needs of his father. This new person, fresh off the boat or into the local pool halls and speakeasy, should follow what they feel is right for them and where they think they can do their best to help their new leader in what ever way they can.

I still however have got to say, it is down to their leader in believing who to trust with the inner workings of the family. If this person was to leave all inner workings to their next of kin and have it possibly brought into the wrong hands. Is that not the leaders fault?

I think it's a personal choice, not one that needs to made for you, by your ancestors and the people they served.

When you come fresh off the boat and someone extends a hand, or if you actively seek the comfort and protection of a family, it should come down to your willingness to serve that family until you die.  When you die, if your child chooses to follow in your footsteps, it should be up to them what path and family they pursue.   Sometimes they return to the family you were in. Inspired and proud of what their parent was able to achieve.  Sometimes, due to a parent's mistake, joining another city to get away from people's accusations that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, is the only way a kid can make a fresh start.

Anyhow, whatever happens, I expect my next of kin to be able to find a family they can put their whole heart and soul into serving, regardless of City or Leader.

Your family is not bound to a social contract with your crewleader.


As much as you can debate about the ethics of a son jumping ship, the fact of the matter is that they have done nothing wrong in terms of their choices.


We aren't baseball players locked into a genealogical contract for an x number of years. A son is not bound to his father's ordeals - the father is dead. A grave. History. While it's nice to see if the member rejoins the organization, they are by no means bound by it.


There's also the consideration that the son may feel that joining the organization in the first place was the reason behind his father's fate, although I doubt that's rarely used most of the time.