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What are we owed? Started by: Tristana on Jan 16, '16 10:32

Tristana pranced out onto the Streets. Well, not pranced really. more like skipped. She was happy and delighted to be alive. Hence, the prancing and skipping. However, as she approached the gathering of mobsters who stood around on soapboxes sharing their views and thoughts, she figured she might need to be a bit more serious about what she was doing.

She tried, repeatedly and with varying degrees of failure to clamber onto a 'soapbox'. She gave up. She then looked around and saw that people were lighting rolled up paper and inhaling the smoke. She just wanted to belong and so she pranced, no! she walked respectfully and very normally to a store about bought a packet of cigarettes. 

As she lit the cigarette, she knew, instantly that she had made a horrible mistake.

Cough! Cough! What the actual fuck?!?! How am I supposed to look-cough!- cool if I can't smoke a cigarette?!. Cough! Cough!

As she then looked around, she saw that her antics had drawn the attention of a few members of the general public. Just as well, as she had something important to say. She put the evil cigarette out and drew herself up to her fullest height.

Ohai, friends. And Ronin, you beautiful beast of a manchild. I have something that I would like to talk about. I was told this is where you came when you had something of that sort. So, here I am.

Very recently, there was a war/takedown of sorts. Now don't worry, I am not here to talk about if it was a 'gangbang' or if strategy was involved.(Personally, knowing Ronin was a part of it.....there was prolly no strategy involved, just him telling himself 'Point the boom boom at them!') Nope, I am here to talk about the aftermath.

I received, as I am sure most of us did, a mail from my upper structure which was forwarded from the Godfather Chairman of New York, Kimble. Here, he explained that there would be no 'war thread' to explain why the recent rash of killings had taken place. He explained that the bloodline of the esteemed Godfather Aztec felt that a war speech was not necessary and he was going to acquiesce to their request(idea?). Now, I don't know his reasons for not sharing the details and nor do I need to know them. 

However, the question that instantly popped into my head 'Oh mai gawd, where will I go for my dose of drama for today?' and then of course, I walked into our HQ and received more than my fair share of drama by following Agrippa for a while. I then sat down and actually thought about this at length. Now, do our leaders actually need to make these speeches? The most cliche response would be 'We don't live in a democracy, we live in the Mob. If your Boss doesn't want you to know something, you don't know about it'

Is that really true,though? Yes, we the foot soldiers are at the extreme bottom of the food chain and don't really have any power but the people who do have the power draw most of it from the loyalty of the same foot soldiers. Also, if history has taught us anything, it is that regimes that attempt to contain information aren't usually very well liked for a long period of time.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say I would have taken a different decision in GF-C Kimble's shoes but from where I stand, it seems slightly weird to me that the people who fought and had kin die for their bosses would not know why they did what they did, aside from 'My Boss wanted this to happen'. 

I guess what I am trying to ask can be boiled down to a few simple questions: Do leaders owe their members the reasoning behind why a 'war' happens? Do members have a right to ask for a reasoning when none is given? Also, Does the sharing of the reasoning actually do anything for the 'morale' and 'faith' of the members?

I hope some of you would like to comment on my thoughts. I would love to hear the opinions of both sides ie: Leaders and Members.

kthxlolbhai.

Trist then stepped back and proceeded to try and smoke a cigarette without coughing her lungs out all over again.

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I'm going to be repeating words that others have said time and time again, however I've never worded this myself.

If your reasons for being in this world are for knowledge, insight and a fair understanding of 'who and why' every time someone takes a dirt nap, it is my belief that you're in the wrong business. My approach has always been that what I need to know, I'm told. At least by a decent leader I will be. If you arrive expecting to be spoon fed information every time something kicks off, you're already off to a bad start.  A lust for information, insistence for closure or simple idle curiosity are not admirable traits. 

There is a summit you must reach before you are not only the eyes and ears of the world, but have the eyes and ears of the world reporting into you. From there, you can tell people whatever you want. Let's face it, nobody is ever happy with what they hear and you can't please all of the people all of the time. Deceit, treachery or a bus crash, you can say whatever you like. At least we're getting some imagination these days and a little less of the status quo. 

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Well, my reasons for being in this world are primarily to work for my Boss and to maybe acquire a lit bit of power for myself as time goes on and as 'Knowledge is Power', I would say knowledge is one of the my reasons to be here. However, I simply do not believe that means I am in the wrong business. 

I realize that being a good soldier who does what he is told and asks no questions is some people's view of what it is to be the ideal mobster. However, in reality, a good soldier will not be a good soldier for long if he is simply kept in the dark, will he? He/She will want to know. It is simply put, human nature to want to know 'why' we do whatever it is that we do.

Moving on,

 If you arrive expecting to be spoon fed information every time something kicks off, you're already off to a bad start. 

I don't expect to be 'spoon fed' anything and certainly not every single time something I am curious about happens. However, saying that wanting to know what caused such a substantial loss of life is nothing more than idle curiosity seems to be rather dismissive to me.

Finally, yes I realize that there is hierarchy in our world and the people who usually make these 'war threads' rest at the very top, or are at least quite close. Yes, I realize that they don't 'need' to say anything, in the most simple sense of this world. All I am asking is 'Is it advisable or sensible to do so?' 

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The endless debate, my friend. Is it 'advisable or sensible' to do a lot of things in this world. It's entirely subjective as to how you walk this life, what you find ridiculous or respectful.

Personally, I don't go looking for information and I don't frankly care to know the reasons why. History is written by the victor, though in a very unique situation, the kin of dead women and men walk this world with perfect recollection of their parents actions. Thus, you end up with two different sides who will either resolve their differences privately and the respective sides can inform their members/parents former members if need be, or drag salt and fecal matter through the streets and generally make a mess.

Either way, I would expect my boss to know what he/she needs to know and use that information for betterment of the operation, as I have got nothing to personally gain from sticking my nose into other peoples business/shitty disputes.

This is of course from a members perspective, as a right hand I'd take note of social and political events in the interest of the operation. 

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I think the response to this kind of question depends on what kind of leaders are in power, their views on the topic and subsequently so that the rest of the population can conform accordingly. 

If Godfather Kimble had decided that all crew leader removals required a speech, then I have a funny feeling that Mr Rossi might be singing a different tune to his current one. 

Are speeches required? No. Should they be encouraged? Absolutely. Should they be some crock of shit about bus crashes and the such? Well...

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I personally feel that the descendants do deserve the reasoning behind their deaths. I think the way this world works and the effort put into it then a justification should be given. Even if it is just a power move.

However, I also feel that the victor has the right to a choice. If they feel that they do not want to communicate to the masses then so be it. They are where they are and those usually clambering for some for of reason are at the bottom.

Should the leaders not give reasoning it can lead to bitterness. It can lead to vendettas and grudges which can see their downfall. But thats the risks we take.

In the case of the recent takedown a clear show of respect to the deceased leader has seen them be told the reasons. I would imagine, should you know their next of kin, they will tell you why you died.

Moving to a more general view. Your leader is just that. They lead you. You chose to join them. They don't have to tell you shit. However, good leaders will if you should enquire but better leaders won't need to. As you will know 100% they did what was best for business and will feel absolutely no reason to ask.

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umist you appear to be suggesting that my opinion is directly influenced by Godfather Kimble's opinion? If anything, we share the same approach in that the Godfather does not see it necessary to drag a persons name through the mud, essentially removing the need for a street appearance all together. 

As I said before, if the masses really feel they are deserving of an explanation, they can find it from the kin of the late boss. I'm sure 90% of the time they have a good idea as to why their parents became victim of the mob.

When it comes down to it, we're not promised a reason for our death when we enter this world, and adversely we're not told we need to explain our actions either. It's all down to how you want to be politically perceived. 

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I have very mixed feelings on this.

While I completely understand and accept that leaders have the option to not tell you anything, it does make you struggle to want to give up your life for them if they are hiding reasoning from you.  I mean after all the foot soldiers are usually the first to go. The ones that protect their leaders and other people have even more risk to go before the leaders. These people sacrifice their lives so that their leaders have a chance of living. Should they live and those people's next of kin decide to come back, I feel it would be respectful to know why they had to sacrifice their lives.

But are we owed it? That can be up for debate I suppose. Some will say yes, others will say no. Personally, if it were me that died for my city, I'd certainly like to know.

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Respectable words,<font color="#111111"> </font>MacKayla, however I would challenge that if you're prepared to give your life for your city anyway, are you not already a dead man? Have you not already resigned yourself to the fact that you'll end up dying at some point without warning or reason?

And what's more, if you were willing to give your life, have you not done what you set out to achieve?

When a crew leader dies, they not only lose their life, they potentially lose 40, 80, 120 lives alongside them. All people that spent their time working for that one individual. I would say that dying alongside your boss is the ultimate show of loyalty, that you really did accept the chance that you'd perish in their name. 

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