It's essentially very simple. New players, when they sign up for the first time, will have a hardcoded protection of 48 full hours, which they will lose if they shoot. Returning players will have the full protection of 24 hours as a thug, but lose said protection as they turn Gangster. I have already spoken to a coder of the site and, yes, it can be coded.

The only arguments I've heard against this suggestion do not seem tenable. First, that someone who makes an account, ignores the game for 48 hours, goes IA and dies, then comes back and make another account will not have the full 48 hours of a "new player". I don't see this as an issue- even in the rare occurrence that someone who makes an IA account decides to come back for more, they will still have 24 full hours to find a family. The only other argument I heard is that it could potentially reveal players who are trying to incog as "new". This, however, would only happen if that incogging person decides to stay unsponsored for more than 24 hours and logs on to get their Gangster promotion. Frankly, with all the things in the "Help" tab telling new players to find a family AND the plethora of mails that anyone would receive within their first 24 hours to find a family ASAP, 95-99% of new players probably find a family on their own during their first day here. You'd hardly reveal your identity as someone who played the game by doing so.

The benefits are potentially enormous. Truly new players have 48 hours of protection, which the vast majority of owners, admins, and CLs believe is desirable. Crewleaders will no longer have to undergo the incredibly unrealistic task of tracking down and punishing the killers of gangsters that have essentially do not matter in the underworld. The 48 hours of protection for brand new players can be RP'd as respect for people who come over from the old country- or the simple truth that these people haven't been around long enough to get noticed by the mafia.

I would, of course, like to hear any criticisms to see if this idea can be improved. But I do believe that this accomplishes the goal of protecting new players to improve the game, while simultaneously maintaining realistic roleplay.

I would love to see this implemented. It makes perfect sense. If -48 is there for the sake of new players, there's no need for returning players to be able to free ride off of it.

Kates, I don't say this often enough.

But I love you.

Proper awesome idea. All for it.

This sounds reasonable since anyone fresh off the boat should be given at least some leeway to get started. Also, theres no reasonable explanation i can think of explaining why a returning player wouldn't understand the 48 hour rule. If they have questions or don't understand theres more than enough resources like helpdesk and the tutorial to help them.

This is a good idea and I would like to see it implemented if possible.

Kates, I say this too often, I don't usually agree with SirBarnabieHuckles.

But this time it fits.

I Love you.

Fantabulosity Amazerfulness of an idea. I hope the crowd takes this into great consideration over the fighting dogs and police officers and sticks this one up on top and bring it to reality.

And this is why I love you as much as I do.



Brilliant.

I like how you put effort in to work towards the same goal we have at the end of the day, I however have a few remarks on this method though.

First, wackers should know what they're doing, I believe a big quality held by a good wacker is pantience and self control. Intelligence can also be added to that list. So anyone shooting a -48 is either stupid, impantient or can't control himself. For my mother Scipita (who shot a -48 when she was @ don rank) I would like to say stupidity applies. Second I shot and realised I wasn't paying attention and shot a -48 I knew it was over. So do we really need to make this thing idiot proof or do our wackers have enough control over their guns and their crew leaders over them to make an implemention like this unnecessary?

Second, we've just seen a nice example of someone who should be shot the second he turns, Underground_Speaker, though I don't feel any need to adress his little "game" I do think a majority of us would like to see him dead before this -48 hour remark has passed. He's not innocent at all though the hitlist will state he is, does he form a real treat? I highly doubt it but fact remains he has threatened basicly everyone with his 2 minutes of hitlist fun. So I am guessing in this case it would apply to be "returning" player but in fairness you can just as easily make a new master account, will coders really check this the whole time? I dunno. Will be an extra task.

Third, with this protection build in it will be a little easier for those chasing the victim the second the protection wears off since prior to that they can't be shot, I like it and I hate it. People gamble their life for that "lucky" shot on the dot but again loose their life for 1 fucking second difference. So I guess I could live with that part of the solution.

Again let me state I absolutely think you rock for trying to come up with a solution to this but I still hope we can actually depend on our own for not fucking this up, cause really it is fucking up. It's clear I have mixed feelings about the topic.

Your suggestion got me thinking though, I have a suggestion of my own, how about after the person spends like 10 minutes on MR (new accounts only) it receives an automated mobmail explaining in short person has to join a family, it would get directed to a special new coded page showing all the sponsors / cl's available at THAT moment to join. If person doesn't get a crew within 12 hours but still is active it will get another mobmail basicly saying the same, idem for 36 hours saying look pal only got 8 hours left, you fucking about kid or you serious? Probably in a bit nicer words but you get the drill. We could even make this a video tutorial with subtitles in any language possible. I rather inform than make stuff completely idiot proof :D

First, I don't deny that the characters that are the best shooters should certainly be able to exercise their patience and self control... for in character reasons. I don't see this as "idiot proofing". I see this is fixing a part of the MafiaReturns experience that does not make sense, in that people are forced to act and respond in character to an entirely out of character situation. Hardly idiot-proofing. After all, the precedent exists... everyone is granted a hardcoded 24 hours of protection until they turn Gangster. I don't think that that's idiot proofing, as opposed to everyone just starting as a Gangster and trusting others not to shoot until x time. I also think that the recent implementations by crewleaders to limit the shooting of -48s have been admirable and largely effective. The point remains, though, that characters in the game were forced to try to contrive an RPable reason for a policy that exists for OOC reasons. It requires an OOC solution.

Underground_Speaker, actually, is an excellent example. As a returning player, he would have only the 24 hours of protection as you said. Furthermore, I highly doubt that this would add a ton of work beyond the usual amount of dupechecking. I asked a coder if it could be implemented and he said it could.

If you can live with the third reason, I don't see a need to spend much time on it. All I'll say is that any player who spends 48 hours here being bombarded by help resources and mobmails telling him they need to find a family... deserves and should die due to the principles of Darwinism.

To close, I think that we the players can certainly handle ourselves for in character issues. But this is a roleplaying game; the game should provide a set of parameters in which players can roleplay in a way that makes sense. Having Godfathers and Dons have to punish other Dons and Consiglieres for shooting people who mean nothing to the underworld is not realistic and does not provide those parameters. It seems like this solutions takes an issue out of the in-character players' hands that really does not belong to them.

With regards to your new suggestion... they already get a mail, I think, with a link to the tutorial when they start up. There is also a giant "Help" tab right in front of them to provide answers to just about any starting question they have. There's also a Helpdesk with a plethora of assistants. Furthermore, most new players receive a veritable mailbox full of warnings that they need to find a family and, by the way, I can get you a spot. We obviously have different ideas of idiot proofing. I think that sending people 3 or 4 mails directly stating that they need to find a family again and again and again, in addition to the tutorial that says it. And the "Surviving Your First 48 Hours" in the help tab that says it. And all the people that will mail and say it... is much worse than idiot proofing. I see it as idiot producing. We don't need to pander- we need to force people to think on their own. That's how many of us did it. What sort of person would join this site, put a modicum of effort into learning how to play, and not know that they need to find a family within 48 hardcoded hours of protection? Has anyone like that ever contributed anything to this place?

While I greatly respect your opinion, as I stated, I do believe that this requires an OOC solution. I thank you, though, for making me think through your objections.

I have pretty much exhausted my thoughts on this topic in the previous thread that's kicking around, however, just to reiterate...this shouldn't be an exercise in trying to dress this up as shooters having a semblance of skill, restraint or patience. The bottom line is that it's currently a piece of functionality that is half-coded and half-player run.

It makes no RP sense for it to be this hazy middle ground. It should be one or the other, regardless of our own views/stances. Given that "no protection" is not going to happen, a fully coded solution may as well be put in place. This is not a case of removing player freedom, it's something that shouldn't be there in the first place. If I'm not mistaken, it was always 24 hours and the need for 48 arose as a temporary solution to one particular scenario. Somehow it stuck beyond being the temporary fix it was. As keeps being said, to kill a Don for shooting a street thug has no basis if we're RPing. It's OOC being dealt with IC.

In the previous thread, there was also some reference to these accounts as "children", which really is cringy. They're thugs or civilians presumably with a back story that lead to them pursuing a path of crime within the mafia, not children. A small point, but one that really doesn't sit right when I see it said.

As for the idea in the opening post - that existing accounts get 24 hours and new accounts get 48 hours voided by shooting - I would say, yes please. Good idea.

Whilst I've seen no evidence myself that an additional 24 hours protection would encourage newer players to become involved in the game, the Administrators of the game have long since developed this view. The motivations for this have never had a basis in the game from a roleplay standpoint and to be honest they never will. The reason I originally suggested this change is because any measures taken by players, even with noble intentions, are done so for preservation of new players.

The fact that we potentially could police ourselves, doesn't mean we should. I'm sure if I began demanding a hug tax of $20 every time someone set foot in New Orleans, we would all question the validity this had to being a mobster rather than something I decided to do 'because I could'. Similarly, just because we can punish Dons and Consigs, doesn't mean we should. There is no legitimate RP reason for the sparing of -48 hour Gangsters, it is purely motivated by out of character reasons - the betterment of the game.

As to this suggestion it ticks all the right boxes for me. It doesn't benefit those who are just being useless, it protects the genuinely new, which is the whole point of the -48 hour rule currently in place. I agree that this would be a vast improvement on the current flawed system.

~G~rin.

Best suggestion yet.

Yes please.