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| Who do you Trust - Debate | Started by: _DonnieBrasco_ on Dec 06, '07 19:45 |
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------------------------------------- To: _DonnieBrasco_ From: Oliver_McTavish Subject: Oh wow- a brilliantly perfect and original street debate with a very gooooood topic. I say go for it- and I cannot wait to participate! :D ------------------------------------- To: Oliver_McTavish From: _DonnieBrasco_ Subject: hello boss lady, how are you, i understand you are a very busy woman, but i have come to realize my street presence, well thats it i dont have one, so i have been thinking for a few days now and i have wrote a debate, was wondering if you would give it a read over to see if it is street worthy. Dont want to be posting shit like. you see a man walking down the street, and coming behind him is a young boy carrying a soap box, the man is well dressed in a black pin stripe suit, he takes the soap box off the boy, gets up clears his throat, takes a sip of water and begins to speak Attention Ladies and Gentlemen, I come to you all today to pose a question about trust. Our world is not a nice world, far from it, we lie, cheat, kill and steal our way to the top. Now of course this is what we are all here to do, but while we do this we all make new acquaintances, and some may even go further to make friends. Now all this is well and good, and it most certainly makes life a lot easier, but I want you to think, how many of those acquaintances and friends do you actually trust? Well for myself its very few, and the more that I think about it the less it gets. I am sure there are people in these streets whose blood lines go though quite a few family's, and through those family's they will have met some great people, I have no doubt of that. But when it would come to a situation of war, would these peoples judgement not be swayed, instead of doing as their crew leader asks, they may well turn on the family they are with simply because of a few strong ties with the opposition. There is no doubt in my mind this goes on in our world, I think that in every war situation every family has a potential mole, if not a definite one, but a potential one who could sway one way or the other. So I ask you all, with every Mafioso you know, is there many that you actually trust? Do you think without trust family's can prosper? Or even without trust can you yourself prosper in this world? I am quite undecided to I would like to hear opinions first Donnie |
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shit, forget the stuff at the start amature |
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| Reply by: _DonnieBrasco_ at Dec 06, '07 19:45 | |
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Shouts above the crowd's murmur. I for one trust everyone in my family and those outside it until they give me a reason not to. Of course I trust my family more than those outside the family. Yes some will betray this trust but thats the way it is,it can not be changed so why try to change it. Coming back for revenge will only fuel the fire and the cycle continues from life to life. I start everyone off fresh everyone is equal up to that moment when they break the respect and trust they are supposed to have. Then they fall to the bottom until I come back or they come back it stars over again for me,what they did before has no bearing on how I feel about them now. They once again have my trust and respect. Puffs on his cigar and looks around for what others have to say. |
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| Reply by: Corrado-Enrico at Dec 06, '07 19:53 | |
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Whom do I trust, I trust almost everyone. I trust my crew to protect me until I give them reason not too I trust everyone other then my crew to keep me at a distance and as i would I trust our leaders to keep up the standards of our world, because if they didn't no one else could I trust that rouges will come of the woodwork just like always and for their lives to be short lived. I do not trust anyone who thinks any different then this. If you don't trust in your crew then you have no business being in there. If you trust everyone you are just lying to yourself or are going to learn a lesson soon. St. Stephen shuts his trap and opens his ears to the rest of the crowd. |
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| Reply by: St_Stephen at Dec 06, '07 20:27 | |
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I've found myself discussing trust in some facet behind closed doors quite often lately, so I'd be more than happy to share my experiences with you. I hope they help. In my opinion, there are many levels of trust. For example, trusting someone to repay a loan is much different than trusting someone to not leak information from a private meeting or a war room. To an extent, I will trust most people if given no reason to do otherwise. Some people I would trust explicitly. My boss, obviously, is one of them. I need to be able to speak without restriction to my crew leader and trust in his actions, because I know that everything he does is to protect me and the rest of the family. This is even more true as his right hand man, as I know he also trusts me in this manner and can discuss things with me that he cannot with anyone else. Other than Mr McTavish, there are very few people in this category. After that, there is another circle of people, comprised mostly of upper-structure and hit squad members that I trust with a considerable amount of family "secrets," if you will. These are people that have proven their loyalty to the family and have earned my trust through demonstrations of that loyalty. I trust these people to protect and fight for me in war time or to assist the boss and I in decision-making. Beyond that is where the lines begin to get blurry. I do trust everyone within the family, but some can be trusted more than others. For example, when joining the family, you are a thug or a gangster and I have no reason to trust you to do more than earn some money for the family every so often. Over time, through actions taken, people gain more of my trust. We've all heard "trust is earned and not given," and there is no truer statement about it. It would be foolish to trust everyone you meet because you will be disappointed. Clearly it hurts most when you are betrayed by someone in one of the two groups I mentioned, but it does happen. Refusing to trust anyone, though, is equally foolish, as families will only work with some element of trust. |
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| Reply by: JohnnyAxe at Dec 06, '07 20:43 | |
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In God we trust! Yes I do trust God. And my Crewleader. And his RHM. And one two close friends that have shown me that they deserve my trust. And nobody else. Nobody. Trust is like love.It only matters if you show it in a very few people.Probably if i trusted everyone I wouldn\'t be alive today. |
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| Reply by: Mythos at Dec 07, '07 07:58 | |
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In answer to your question Donnie. is there many that you actually trust? I could probably count the number of people I trust on two hands, though the degree of trust varies between the people. Do you think without trust family's can prosper? I think that all families have to have some trust within them. For example, when we report our shot records to our leaders we are trusting them with, to a certain extent our lives. Just joining a family is a very basic example of trust because your choosing to follow someone whose decisions will ultimately result in either your life or death. Or even without trust can you yourself prosper in this world? I think without placing trust in someone you wont be able to prosper in this world, unless there are no crews around. |
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| Reply by: Paddy at Dec 07, '07 08:27 | |
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I trust quite a few people, but the majority of those people I trust with limited information. For example, when I get one of the Cult calling me to ask for some of the selling prices where I'm at, I trust that person to not give away my location to those who would do me harm. However, absolute confidence and complete and utter trust of all my business activities is reserved for very few - I could count them on a single hand. The reason for that being? Not everyone needs to know everything. Look at civilians, parents do not give their children absolute confidence in all their activities - Christmas being an example of this. Does that mean that they don't trust their own child? No. What it means is that they trust their child with certain information, but deem it better to withold some other facts. Now we'll look on a bigger scale. Does the Government tell the public about every threat to National Security? Therefore I am selective with what information I give out to those I trust even. Not everyone needs to know everything. But as for the people who have my absolute confidence, they know who they are and that's all I wish to comment on the matter. |
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| Reply by: Cathy_Parks at Dec 07, '07 14:05 | |
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If offer myself to my leader Unconditionly, allways did. Yet complications arise when the people who you care for are on opposing sides. This usually means a parting of ways that is never easy. Whats left to decide is which way to go. Do i turst anyone? Yes i do, but its a very small number, im loyal to far more people than i trust, but thats because ive excellent morals. Im old fashioned and will stand blindly by my familiy regardless. Ive been back stabbed we all have, but with out people you can trust you wont make it very far. So risking it all for trust is worth it, for with out trust you have little to risk. Good topic for conversation, ive to stop myself before i babble all day. |
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| Reply by: InSideOut at Dec 08, '07 08:30 | |
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Trust is a lot like respect, it is earned, not given. In my eyes anyway. My bloodline has been around these streets for quite a number of years now and, in some respects, I would say the longer you go on, the less people you trust (or the more people break said trust) For instance, when my great great great blah blah (you get the idea) granddaddy moved over here it took him time to build alliances with a number of people, of which came respect and trust in a lot of cases. Now, back then I would say there was quite a high number of people he could trust. However, as years go by, these trusts are strained. People who you thought you could trust with your life shit on you, and you shit on others who gave you their trust. Its what happens. These days I could honestly say there are quiet a few people who I call friends and people I can trust....to an extent. But the people I trust with my life...I could count on one hand and still probably have a couple of fingers left. HP |
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| Reply by: HussyPunter at Dec 08, '07 13:24 | |
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Well, you bring up a good debate. But being the egotistical bastard that I am...I will GIVE you the answer to this debate. Yes you heard me right, the answer, not my opinion :) Okay... Trust should be treated with care. You need to be extremely careful who you trust. Your inner circle of friends and family should be the only people you place your trust in but even these people should be kept to an extreme minimum. Now to prosper in this world it is no doubt you need acquaintances, as well as friends. You need as many people to trust you as you can possibly get. The more you have, the more likely your chances are of prospering in this world. So how do you gain other's trust without trusting them yourself? Very simple, this is where are criminal mentalities come into play. We lie, cheat, and steal to get to the top right? Well with acquaintances this is no different. You gain their trust, and you use it to your advantage. It's as simple as that. Because believe me, they are not your acquaitances for the hell of it, they do everything to help better themselves. If they make an alliance with you, it is only because it makes them stronger...not because they feel like being nice to you. If you can fully understand this concept and play it to your advantage, you will gain "trust" as well as prosper in this world. |
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| Reply by: -Blaze- at Dec 08, '07 19:21 | |
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To answer your question... if I understand it correctly. I trust people who I have had good dealings with in the past. People who have helped me in the past. People who show respect to others and people with a good moral standing. I do however think that it's a shame that you feel the need to "get permission" to post on the street and even more so feel the need to advertise this to your fellow mafiosos. |
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| Reply by: Louis at Dec 09, '07 09:17 | |
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i wasnt getting permission, was simply looking for an opinion on what i had wrote. And if you had cared to read the the immediate response to that was ignore that start as it was not meant to have been posted, an amature mistake on my part i know, but this i had explained. Anyway to the rest of whom, it seems that everyone is of similar understanding on what trust is. I myself think it is something that has to be earned, and when it comes to real trust, to put trust in someone over something that you consider important, is something that we all cherish to have, but it is few and far between. Thanks for everyones opinions and to all of those who did notice that the start of my speech was not meant to have been there. |
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| Reply by: _DonnieBrasco_ at Dec 09, '07 18:40 | |
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Look I'm not going to bullshit anyone here. I don't really trust anyone. But there are many different layers to this question. You see I go back a long way with a few people and more often than not it is these people I'll trust enough with my own opinions on real issues, opinions that might not be necessarily flattering about others. If my opinions have been leaked to others as a result, I've yet to hear about it, but then again, why would they? I don't lead a family and I'm not a RHM or person of importance and so no-one cares what I think. If I was someone more important, would I be more careful? Maybe. The truth is that when you have something to lose you shouldn't really trust anyone. Believe it or not there are quite a few stand-up guys and gals out there who could be trusted with everything, but you can only make that decision after anyalysing the impact of any information you choose to part with from any angle. In some affairs it only takes one set of the wrong ears to bring your world crashing down around you. Trust is a form of damage limitation that must repeat itself many many times before it can be considered even 50% reliable in the minds of those who are trusted. It is also inextricably linked to success. If those you trust rely upon the same goals as you for success, this is \ good start. Because when someone is asked to swim against the current, that is when trust breaks down. You are most valuable to yourself as alive, yet sometimes to your Boss you are simply more valuable as a pro-whacker. When it comes down to simple maths like this, can every would-be pro-whacker who has been asked to take a nearly suicidal shot and every Boss given an excuse for why the same person can't take the shot really trust the questions and answers being spoken? |
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| Reply by: Sledge-Hammer at Dec 10, '07 12:50 | |
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Trust is an issue I have wanted to see brought up in the streets for quite some time now. As a person in my position, I work with a lot of different people for many different reasons. When I first began, I believed that I should trust those that worked for me or with me. Why not, right? If they were taking their time to help me accomplish something, they could not be all bad. I consider myself to have been quite near-sighted in those days. I neglected to think that people could 'help me' while really all they had in mind was personal gain. Needless to say I suffered quite a lot of disappointment early on in my career- putting all my trust into individuals who had been working me over the entire duration of our 'relationship', business or otherwise. There comes a point though when you eventually get tired of feeling used, and start to be more selective with your trust. Like many before me have stated here today, there are many, many levels to this complicated bond that we as humans share, and there are many people I hold in the highest of regards that I many not trust as much as others. Call me cruel, but I'm at a point in my life where I have a family to think about, and cannot freely hold hands and skip with every person that comes along and wants to be my 'friend'. Not that I am saying I am an iceberg when it comes to feelings. If you earn my trust, you earn it. Doesn't mean I'll throw myself off of a bridge for you though. There are only two people alive that I can say I trust without hesitation, and it is because they have shown me repeatedly through bloodline history (or time and time again) that they are every bit worthy of every ounce of faith I have put in them. They know who they are, and thank you for being the amazing individuals that you are. Trust... we need it in this world. As I have come to realize, you cannot do it all on your own. Without trust, there can never be that 'family bond' every crew works so hard to achieve. Here is a question that I would like to see posed... do you as Mafioso find it easier to trust the same family friends, associates and/or bloodline through your years? Or is it much easier for you to forge new bonds and learn to place trust in different people as your career grows? And as a side note to Louis, Donnie did not ask my permission to visit the streets with his speech. My family has always been allowed to speak whatever they have to voice- as long as it remains appropriate and respectful of the original speaker. I have always just had an open door policy with those who lack in street speaking confidence. I am available to bounce ideas off of or whatever it is they wish. Grins and tips his hat. |
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| Reply by: Oliver_McTavish at Dec 10, '07 12:52 | |
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Donnie listens to what Mr McTavish has to say and listens to the question he has posed, with his furrowed brow and concentrated face he thinks for a few minutes Good question sir, i like yourself placed my trust in quite a few people, a few of whom i found out i should not have done, but there was also some who i am still glad to this day i did and still do. Along my journey so far i have come to gain trust of some more people of recent and for this i am happy, life changes and our world has changed, and with this we need to change, and that means changing some of our close friends. Now as to which one is easier, well i would say this comes down to circumstances. no matter how old we get and wiser we get we can still get a decision wrong, and we can be back stabbed, same goes with those we know longer. I dont like to lose friends but i love making more, good true close friends are hard come by and should be truely cherished |
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| Reply by: _DonnieBrasco_ at Dec 10, '07 14:28 | |
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| For me, as im sure with a lot of other people, trust is earned. You have to show me that your worth waht you say you are, as the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. That being said everyone deserves at least one chance to prove themselves. then we take it from there. | |
| Reply by: Insight- at Dec 10, '07 14:55 | |
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