Personally i love nothing more than a good street debate. Something that gets the masses talking amongst eachother and exchanging their opinions on matters. But sometimes, in fact, quite a lot of the time, some people take debates too far and overstep the line. See, some people just don't know when to shut up and they let their emotions get the better of them which often leads to insults, whether it be aimed at a Godfather/mother, crewleader or any joe bloggs. Inevitably, someone takes offence and said person ends up in the obituaries, all because of one little outburst, a moment of madness. Sometimes heated street debates even lead to much bigger things, as proved recently.

Almost every day we see a mafioso enter an early grave because he upset someone in a street debate. I am not here to say whether it is right or wrong for someone to die for having their two cents worth as i know most of the time the culprit was in the wrong and the right decision has been made. Some things are just better left unsaid. Most of the time it is the lower ranks amongst us that fall victim to this, people in a similar position to myself. Is this coincidence?

Now, picture this. There is a street debate going on and it is starting to get heated and people are getting wound up, for whatever reason. A relatively unknown gangster and a well respected boss are taking it a bit far and soon enough it starts getting personal and insults and accusations are getting thrown around. They have both clearly crossed the line but its the gangster that takes the fall because he/she is the lower rank and should show respect to the boss, because he has 'earned his button'. Is this fair? In my opinion, no it isn't as i believe the boss should have known better than to get dragged into a war of words with someone of such a lower rank. But that's my opinion.

I am all for people having their say, so long as that elusive line isn't crossed. One thing that does concern me though is 'yes men' or 'mute men'. Yes men, those who come out into the street and simply say "I agree with so and so..." Er..thanks pal, that is very constructive, now go lick ass somewhere else. Even worse is the 'mute man', you know the kind, the people who never have anything to say, half of them for being bone idle and the other half being too scared to say anything incase it lands them in trouble. Now the second half i can sort of understand and this is where freedom of speech sort of comes into play. No-one should fear voicing their opinions on the streets, no matter what rank. So long as it is not abusive, insulting or offensive to anyone in particular then i see no problem. But they are scared that if they say the wrong thing they will be gunned down, so instead they shy away and hide in the shadows.

What i am trying to get at is where do we cross the line when it comes to freedom of speech? Should everyone have the right to give their exact piece of mind without fear of death? Do the lower ranks get treated unfairly compared to the higher ranks? If so, is it right?

Where do we stand as a community when it comes to Freedom Of Speech?

Please discuss.

Erratic.

Adelaide shakes her head and stares at the speaker

I believe there have been a few speeches on this particular matter recently. Now while it is sometimes good to bring up this subject, after longer length of time, for the ones newest to our way of life, I don't see the reason to have another so soon.

Regardless, I'll bite. Again.

As long as you speak with respect, obey Omerta, and use your judgment in all other cases there is no reason to fear having a watery end.

Those that can't do that earn their cement feet.

Nobody is out there protecting my freedom of speech.  If I don't get shot in a debate it's not because of my opponent's reverence for my freedom of opinion, it's because they don't want to look like an asshole who isn't bright enough to defend their position.

This little fact is what keeps freedom of speech open and free on our streets.  When someone does get shot, it's most often for being disrespectful, not simply for speaking their minds.

In my opinion, if you can't mount an argument without coming across as disrespectful, then you shouldn't argue with people who can kill you.

Well I would be classed as one of the mutes. I very rarely come out here to voice my opinion on things, however when I do so I try to provide my own insight into something rather than just nodding along and saying "well said". So lets just put it as I'm picky as to what I decide to get involved with in the streets.

This however is something that I feel I can comment on. Yes your right it usually is those who are lower ranked how are the most abrasive when it comes to responses. This can be easily explained though, they have little or nothing to lose by doing so, they are risking weeks of work, they aren't risking a good gun, a bucket load of bodyguards or a healthy stash of cash.

The high rankers have put in the work and have a lot more to loss. Also by reaching their rank, it would be hoped that they know how to conduct themselves in the street and won't prove to be a liability to their family.

However there are times where emotions can run high and words can be said by both parties that are out of order. Now first of the lower ranked can be easily dealt with, a lot of times it's found that those being the most vocal are doing so because they feel wrong that their papa or mama were offed recently. Now these are normally directed to godfathers or crew leaders but at times it's been known that members of the respective families will come out and defend their boss. Some a little too vigorously, but that being said should they receive the same punishment? After all they are defending their boss or their bosses methods. Also why should a family head lose a valuable member of their crew over a few wrong words.

While you'll often not see them end up in the obits, you don't see what happens behind closed doors. Just because one's punishment is clear doesn't mean to say that the other is not being punished in another way

Puck tips his hat for what Dante have said, a well thought and clearly stated his opinions.

Id love debates as much as Iota' burger plus SpaceMountain and
Matterhorn rivalry and Gwarble's insults cover up by his publication.
Its like Drug Property shadowed by a business, say restaurant.

well I know you get my point, intellectual beings : I love debates.
However something/someone  must have the qualities for someone to get
in love by. In debate id love debates because of hearing over Mentally
creatures of God take out each other for the sake of their side.But
most importantly id love to put my two or maybe more cents to something
that is worth my eyes and ears and brain to feast in..Im talking about
the proposition people. I dont care if its GodFather/ GodMother vs  a low rank civilian but worth hearing on.

And oh if you call me mute, Ill be happy to say that youre a stupid lazy ass who doesnt know what is a mute person. Just like my man Dante, saying here, I am silent too, especially with those over repeating issues and endless whatnots that have been over and over again uttered by the unmute persons. hmm..This can be a good line to draw in the FOS limitations, stop repetition or atleast for us it will be beneficial.

On to the topic, freedom of speech is a gift of God and law to us maybe a blessing for those who can speak. But yes there are freaking limitations people!.My father once tell me when i was young bullying my old brother then while he kicking my ass he always tell me "If youve got nothing good to say, then shut the F up". While remembering I always burst out laughing because what the hell is F? its just a ltter but when i get my mind working,yeah its a freaking insult. Lesson folks : If youve got nothing good to say, then shut the D up!.

Well in a debate it is always inevitable that people will heat up, almost killing them with their eyes, imagining they have laser eyes because of how deadly eyes are looking while putting their opinion like  a dagger in their opponents' heart..It always happen, and will not change. But at the end of day, exhibiting debating skills must not be take advantage by those people who dont have those instead have their own skill that can break someone's skull.

Puck tips his hat yet to another person., nice job to erratic very cool proposition that get me into it..

What i am trying to get at is where do we cross the line when it comes to freedom of speech? Should everyone have the right to give their exact piece of mind without fear of death? Do the lower ranks get treated unfairly compared to the higher ranks? If so, is it right?

There is no freedom of speech as such. Well, there is in the sense that you can say whatever you want, as long as you are happy to deal with the consequences if someone takes exception. For the most part, if you use your words wisely, you'll be absolutely fine and there is no reason not to voice your thoughts. 

As for your second question, do the lower ranks get treated unfairly compared to the higher ranks? Hopefully so, we're talking about cosa nostra here, not an equality board. The mafia shouldn't be fair, there are ranks for a reason, it should be whatever the higher ranks (ie, those with power) decide it is. You earn your share of 'fair', it's not granted to all. Or shouldn't be.

In my life, I have informed the public that Diemne enjoys dressing up as a gimp and being humiliated. I have edited heavily some of the information, but never the less told everyone that Scipita is his mistress/dominatrix. I have abused the eating habits of Godfather Iota. I have outed my own boss, Don Poisonous Jelly as an uncontrollable kleptomaniac. 

In the next few days I will be talking about Kates in much the same tone.

It's not what you say that matters... it's context and content.

The Liar feels a little strange after spending a few moments speaking the truth, so heads off to find a drink.

It just goes to show, even when you spend your time pointing out the obvious it won't always lead to your death.

Liar, I think you were probably on the verge of trouble there though. Fortunately, I found the pictures in time. You owe me...

its very normal for  The_liar to lie..i was shocked when he said he telling the truth but i got even shocker when GF Deimne seconded what the liar says

I think that Hoopi kind of put nail on the hammer or wait the hammer on the nail. Oh which is it?

Can never keep those silly expressions right.

As for what The_Liar points out it is quite true some of it but to which parts I attest to be true I shall take with me to the grave.
Oh and why would a man named The_Liar be believed? Because the truth will out!

Walks off wondering when all these expressions entered his mind.

Freedom of speech... interesting topic here. Of course the streets are for everyone... everyone here is in title of own opinion. Why doest is get out of hand? Because people fail to listen or listens with a closed minded ear. I always encourage freedom of speech and what others think always interets me. And i respect the ones that have a different opinion from mine. Why does it get out of hand though? Yes i asked this question twice... What is the point of making an issue with what someone has to say. If he gets frustrated and lacks the respect we all think we deserve... then why reply to it. Why give them the honor of having a reason to shoot you on the event that you are lower rank than he? If you are low in rank and see that it is getting out of hand... stop right there and go to your leader with your issue. Your leader is there to advise you, to help you. But you also have to listen to your leader... otherwise, well... you deserve to die. This is the whole idea of having family's in this thing of ours. And it is the whole idea of the family structure... so one knows who to ask for help.

I truly believe that death is conquered by asking questions to the right people and listening to good advise. If you want to live through this thing of ours... it is the only way. Freedom of speech is for everyone, but respect is always called for. Respect is what keeps us all together. Lack of it... is well, asking for it.

I think that alot of people have gotten into the habit of seeing "this thing of ours" less like a criminal syndicate, and more like a bunny loving fun zone. Yes, you have a right to speech, yes you can say what you want. No, it doesn't mean that what you say won't get you killed.

I think that disrespect has alot to do with many of the killings when it comes to the streets, but what you have to remember is that people can be killed for having different views also.

For example:

Leader A believe's that Member whoring is ok, Leader B thinks it isn't. Leader B comes to the streets to voice his concern on the matter, Leader A shoots leader B. Leader A shot Leader B not because his view's were disrespectful or wrong, but because he could. He wants Member Whoring to be acceptable, why not eliminate anyone who disagrees?

This "thing of ours" is run by power, if you have it you have complete freedom of speech. If you don't have power, you don't. (Well, not anywhere near the degree that you possibly could if you had power)

I would also like to pick apart your speech alittle:

One thing that does concern me though is 'yes men' or 'mute men'. Yes men, those who come out into the street and simply say "I agree with so and so..." Er..thanks pal, that is very constructive, now go lick ass somewhere else.

I often agree with people when it comes to certain matters, most of the time is merely because they appeared at the speech before hand and said everything that I was about to.

If I were to agree with a thug on his views, would I be licking his ass? Simply because he arrived first?

Am I "Just another Yes man"?

_______

You have just proved that you are not a 'yes man' simply by coming here and giving your views, which is much appreciated.

I am talking about those who continuosly come to the street and simply say "I agree with so and so" - that is it. That is not constructive, it doesn't help at all and it is pointless. It is a street debate, not a vote where you simply say yes or no. Some people do this even when they don't actually agree with what has been said, they do it because their CL or Godfather has annd they want to look good in front of them. We have all seen it before and no doubt will see it again. Granted, some people will say "I agree with so and so because..." and they will give a reason to back it up. Then i would not class them as a yes man.

i hope that clears it up a bit, maybe i was a bit unclear with my original statement. :)

Absolutely nothing wrong with voicing a well though out opinion on our streets.  Its when people continue to "run their mouths" and litter our streets with their disgruntled, petty ramblings and continue shouting their conspiracy theories to anyone that offers an audience .... that is something that I personally could do without.

Drunk Floyd approaches.  Taking another shot before he thinks and than stopping to take another shot before speaks.

I've always been the type to tell people "say what you feel", as long as what you feel doesn't change the emotions of what those listening felt.  At the same time touching the feelings of those who can leave bodies filled, with bullets that is.  It's not really if what you're saying is right or wrong.  In our life there is no right or wrong.  Crime is wrong and those who can kill you are right even if they're wrong, but hey that's the mafia and we're mobsters.  The best thing going is to become one who can kill or call shots to those that can kill, therefore you will always be right.  Isn't that the reason we chose this life anyway?

Floyd needs a shot so he takes another

Long story short, in my opinion there is no freedom of speech, only freedom of choice. So choose wisely what you say or you'll be chose, for cement shoes and dripping wet clothes.

You know.. its cold times we live in and what looks good on paper is not always reality. We live and conduct our business in an era that condones violence, murder, crime as business ans women for hire.

All the freedom of speech cases..the times of great unity in our nation have not hit yet. Your lucky enough to be walking the streets and be in the family making cash.

I personally know where the line is, and know when I am about to cross it - after you have been around these streets long enough you get a feel of what you can say and get away with and what crosses that line. Some of it comes from death, and watching people die for their actions.

Looking back over my family tree I can see the demise of many of my ancestors was due to voicing their opinion in the streets a little too clearly. They crossed the line and payed the ultimate sacrifice for it as so many mobsters do.

However, my ancestors knew full well in their head what they were doing. I find it hard to beleive that anyone could be involved in a discussion or a speach and not comprehend where the line of disrespect stands. Its a 6th sense that we pick up on as human beings.

This world of our limits our appreciation of how other feel because we lack bodylanguage which is a key factor in reading someones emotions but that does not detract from the fact that its very easy to understand how the argument is going to go.

If you are the gangster and a highly ranked member of the underworld is calling you out then tow the line or bite your tongue. These are skills that very very few have these days. Why? Well, thats another discussion.

I'll keep this short and sweet. In my own opinion, freedom of speech only goes as far as what you can carry off with your rank, gun and such. If you're a Godfather with the biggest gun on the game, there's no limit to your freedom of speech. If you're a gangster who hasn't even shot your gun at a shooting range then your freedom of speech is exceptionally limited. Just make sure you take into account if the person you're talking to is bigger than you then you need to keep yourself in check.

I love these discussions of "legal" topics like freedom of speech.  This is not the government of the United States.  There is no "freedom" of speech here.  You are entitled to or prohibited from speaking by your family, your city and  your God(s). 

What Cryptic says has some merit.  Generally, you'd like to think your speeh is somewhat limited by your rank.  And it absolutely should be limited by your rank, and in many cases is surely that.  But that's not always the case in this world, as it is typically those with no rank who find the "courage" to speak in this world.  And obviously when I say courage, I mean stupidity - because it's usually some moronic whine about how they were wronged in a past life that is spewed most freely in this world. 

And I'm not sure your speech is totally limited by your rank.  I imagine that if your speech remains respecful that your speech can be limited only by the rank of your leader or the power of your Godfather.