"Bodyguard Condensation" sounded too boring. Moving on.

The bodyguard system we currently have is neither realistic nor beneficial to the overall state of the game, in my opinion.

(To make my suggestion clear, I will refer to bodyguards as they currently exist as "bodyguards" and bodyguards as they would exist if my suggestion is implemented as "New Bodyguards")

It is unrealistic for 50-150 people to be following ANYONE around on a day to day basis, even the most powerful members of Cosa Nostra. This should be obvious to anyone. In fact, it's unlikely that most people other than bosses, very very well established mafiosi, and perhaps sons and daughters of the most trusted men and women in a family would have constant protection outside of their associates.

Introducing New Bodyguards, which are essentially 10 current bodyguards grouped into one. They will be 10 times as effective. Cost 10 times as much money to buy and train. But much, much, much (maybe 10 times as much!) harder to kill. Right now any shooting earner with a thumb up his ass has at least a decent chance of popping off a shot at a crewleader's bodyguard and having SOMETHING positive happen, which is unrealistic. New Bodyguards, however, would be different. You would need a serious, serious gun to just take one out in one shot. Wounding would still happen to a varied extent depending on how well they are hit, but a pro time of 4 hours would be in effect. To reflect this increased defense of individual units, BG kills would be equal to a player kill.

Possible Argument Against: But what about people who just want a single bodyguard? My response to this would be that 5.25 million for a thug for one BG isn't exactly unobtainable if you've proven your worth to your crewleader. And honestly... not everyone should have a bodyguard. They SHOULD be hard to obtain. That "protected" should be a big deal. Also, the current labeling system would be adjusted so that 1 BG = Protected, 2 BGs = Well Protected, 3 BGs = Very Well Protected and so on.

I am not in favor of any suggestion that requires a reset, and this one certainly would not. All existing bodyguards would just be transformed into New Bodyguards. So someone walking around with 50 bodyguards would wake up with 5 New Bodyguards. Their defense, again, would remain exactly the same. For people with BGs not currently in a factor of 10, they would have to option to pay the difference to add one more New Bodyguard or would receive the financial equivalent.

A Mafia Don walking around with enough people to field 15 baseball teams is not realistic. But walking around with 1 or 5 or 10 or even 15-20 incredibly well trained bodyguards is much more so. Again, the suggestion doesn't change anything defense/stat based, it just presents it in a more realistic way.

In addition to benefiting for realism reasons with regards to numbers, I would also think this would improve wars, since instead of waves of wee little guns being thrown at bodyguards there would be a concerted attack by shooters with actual guns to remove "protection", and those guns could actually do some damage.

While I do honestly believe that this suggestion would improve the game as it currently is, I know for a fact that there are ideas out there that could improve. Please offer support if you think this would be a good idea, as that's the only way it could ever have a chance of happening. If you disagree, please express your criticism so that the suggestion can either be improved or disregarded.

This suggestion is interesting Kates, but just so I'm sure you're saying instead of having 100BGs as it is unrealistic you have 10 new BGs with the same defence as if they had 100 old BGs.

Is that is what you're saying, yes it would be more realistic but would not be dealing with the issue as to why effective BG caps are being proposed. If someone has 10 BGs that makes the person just as hard to kill as when they had 100 BGs then the change doesn't affect the game play but rather the cosmetics of the game. Such as oh it looks more realistic, Person A is running round with 10BGs instead of 100, that more reflects real life. But doesn't in anyway alter game play.

Oh balls. Yes, that is what I was saying. And this is a non-cap suggestion- any question about caps could be implemented within or without this system equally as easy.

And Fox, I STRONGLY disagree with the point about game play. Right now, if a Don sent a Consigliere with a really great gun to take out another Don's protection, what would happen? Even if you gave them 5 hours before anyone noticed they could kill... 5 BGs. If the person has 50+, that's not exactly earthshaking. With the new system, however, even if that person say, manages to kill one or two of the Don's 5 BGs outright and wounds another 3, that could seriously affect his overall protection level much more than the situation as currently constituted, no?

What he said. I agree with pretty much all of it and with that system i'd like to see a bit of expansion on a feature that could be much more tactical (as you pointed out)

No-one would have more than say four BG's following them at any one time (Four on each 'corner'). These BG's stand in front of bullets. Now by my poorly factually based reckoning a BG can take one good hit off an excellent shot (head shot/100% damage), three good hits off a good gun (three to the gut/chest 34% damage) and 7 from a poor gun (all limbs and still three to a gut/15% damage). That'd work right?

Can I just go back to this point of 'no more than 4 Bodyguards' and possibly expand. You can employ say 10 Bodyguards. You can use four at any given time. These take the same defence hit as the BG's take now. The other 6 are on R&R and take no hit. They can be switched around freely with a one hour timer on arriving at your side. e.g You swap Paul for John. Paul stays with you until John arrives. If Paul dies 30 minutes before John arrives then you're down to three until John can make it to your side.

I don't know how well recieved that is off leaders. I have no immediate threat on my life and no BG's. But you would still have 100 of the current Bodyguards at your disposal and 40 of them would be following you around with 60 in reserve.

After considering your response Kates, yes I most re-consider my previous stance on the matter. I can now see how it will alter game play, making wars shorter changing tactics and so on. But on the down side what the change has the potential to do is further eliminate those small guns from war. They'll carry on just sitting around at war time waiting to be picked off. Outside of pro'ing shooters they wouldn't be able to do much else as they definitely wont be hitting BGs and would be likely pro'ing them if sent out to shoot any considering the change you proposed.

I'm fully open to changes especially BG changes but personally I don't feel this is the way to go.

The question, as I said, shouldn't be about capping. That's a whole other debate and wouldn't affect this change.

I don't see how small guns would be eliminated from the war more than they are already. In fact, they might even get more involved by hunting down other "small guns" and associates, as opposed to being tossed in waves at high rankers' bodyguards.

Because really, what makes more sense? "Okay Jimmy, you're a Wise Guy who has shown some promise... we're going to send you to take out this Godfather's protection" or "Okay, Jimmy, you're a Wise Guy who has shown some promise... head over to take out this enemy associate"?

I think this would be a great idea, i have always argued that the amount of BG's in this game is ridiculous and thatsomething should be done about it. I also like the proposals you set out in regards to making BG's 10x tougher and harder to kill. I can't see any potential flaws with this whatsoever as you have already covered the effect it would have should BG's be reduced. In regards to BG capping, if this change was to happen, i believe the BG capping should be increased, so 'New BG's would be capped at 15, or maybe 20.

Great idea Kates.

I like this idea a lot. Will make the whole bg system realistic and since I love killing bgs so much it would make a bg kill mean more. But question Kates, how would this effect the training of the bgs? Cause right now i think the cost to train a bg is too expensive, I'd suggest it be lowered if this new idea was to be worked into the game considering how much one new bg would cost.

In my opinion this suggestion is very tentative and can make the whole BG system realistic and I cant deny the fact that this will definitely change the gameplay but in a more better perspective.

So admins should really take consideration about this

I think this is one of the best suggestions , i have read for a while, and this bg system will be more similar to our RW system.

The admins should give this suggestion some thinking , and this change wont take lot of hard work too , has the Bg system is already there, it will just require some recoding, else the admins know a lot better.

This is an excellent suggestion. It is unrealistic for anyone to have more than 10 bodyguards. The president doesn't have more than 20 bodyguards max. Training the bodyguards should be significantly cheaper. Since they would cost a lot more, they should already be trained.

Kates, you have always been very vocal, and incredibly intelligent when you open your mouth. This is no exception. Excellent suggestion, plenty of ways the admins could tweak it to fit what they feel is balanced and still implement the overall idea...

I also agree with the comment of now being able to send of promising wiseguys to whack warring families associates instead of just popping bg's... which can be pretty depressing :) ...

This doesn't change a thing. So what? people will have 5 or so strong BG's instead of 100. The still have the money to buy them.

See my thread here on my recommendation. http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/85566

I agree that having many BG's are unrealistic but that's all that needs to change, not the way they work. Else its just like spinning tires of a car in neutral.

Another idea is to have the BG's at lower ranks not be as strong as the more expensive BG's

In all honesty, any mafioso under the rank of Capo wouldn't have any bodyguards anyway, that's what the lower rankers are for... anyone under Made Man is reguarded as cannon fodder for want of a better phrase.

Gangsters would never be OWP let alone have any BG's.

If you want to be realistic here, lets have a rethink about what ranks actually require protecting & go from there.

Lilly with the current system it is very unrealistic...but with Kates idea i believe its fine if a gangster had 10 new bgs....what if that person was a son of someone very important? Though they may be low ranked they might have the position or their bloodline had the contacts to get them these amounts of bgs....but with the current system a gangster with over 50 bgs is just ridiculous

Prehaps you cap the number of BGs allowed based upon rank

In all honesty, any mafioso under the rank of Capo wouldn't have any
bodyguards anyway, that's what the lower rankers are for... anyone
under Made Man is reguarded as cannon fodder for want of a better
phrase.

A fundamental misunderstanding. Some of the mob's most important figures were never made because they weren't full italians. People like Henry Hill, Jimmy Burke, Curly Humphreys and Jake Guzik were often more important, more respected and more protected than their italian counterparts; but they could never be made because they were not of full Italian descent.

Well gee willikers, this seemed like a good idea that got a lot of support.

It seems rather remiss of me not to have commented upon this before now (as I distinctly remember reading it) and I believe it would be a step in the right direction.

The only concern is what would happen when we reach the point that someone has 50 New Bodyguards? I have no doubt that with the current system, some people would pour more money in to fill the voice, until they once again reach into the ridiculous.

Any open ended system, as we seen, is prone to abuse. I once made a post about each subsequent bodyguard only adding a small percentage of your existing defence, rather than each adding the same every time. Meaning your first 10 would be much more beneficial to you than your next 10 and the 10 after that. Sadly though, I can't seem to find it.

Back on topic, interesting suggestion.

I remember when bodyguards were first introduced being afraid of exactly what we have today, people running around with 500+ bodyguards, in essence immortal. That worry was put to rest with the knowledge that there would be a "50 BG hard cap".

That cap should never have been removed.

To see someone with "Obscenely Well Protected" is well and truly obscene. There is absolutely no logic to someone having 500+ people following them around everywhere, heads of state don't have 500 people surrounding them at all times.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes to this suggestion.