Recently a thread brought out by Los Angeles brought on quite the idea. Hopefully this idea will be given much consideration.

The idea overall is to bring a few things that I have come up with already, they are as follows;
1.) More business throughout more cities.
2.) Money for city heads as well as the business owners.
3.) Increase the RP and quality in the business district.
4.) You will still receive the experience points as well as money if you're a shop owner or city head.

How it works will be slightly confusing most likely but any questions will be met with a sure fire answer.

Example: I, Aftershock setup a business in Los Angeles. Every week I will pay the sum of $5,000. 40% ($2,000) will go to the city head just as a sort of tax for being there and the other $3,000 is to simulate regular rental space and such. For every post that is made in my business, depending on length/quality as well as the rank of the mobster, I will receive X amount of dollars. Also the city head will receive X amount of dollars, depending on the length/quality as well as the rank of the mobster. So let's say I pay my $5,000 for my property and receive the amount of posts/quality to how much it costs to make draw (break even), from then on it's purely profits.

Okay to get a little bit more nitty gritty this is how I would ideally see it working out. You pay the fee to have your business. The city head gets a cut. Then for every post you will receive a small amount of money (it'll build up) as well as the city head as stated.

So let's say there are 10 business operating in Los Angeles, at this point alone PoisonousJelly will have made $20,000 dollars just by allowing this to happen. Depending on quality of posts and such after roughly 50-150 posts your business will break even, it all depends on the quality/length as well as rank of mobster. For the city head after even 500 poor posts the city head will have made roughly $25,000.

500 posts/10 business = 50 posts/7 days = 7.something posts a day = a little over a post every three hours. Hopefully I didn't lose anyone there. If I did I can explain it a little bit more.

All in all 50 posts shouldn't be that hard. Now the benefits of posting are you'll receive your regular XP, generate more money as a whole and when the MRSE is up and running will make business' worth a lot more money.

As far as posts I'm looking at something like this:
Godfather: $131-150
Don: $116-130
Consigliere: $101-115
Boss: $86-100
Capo: $71-85
Made Man: $46-70
Wise Guy and Earner: $31-45
Goomba and Gangster: $16-30
Thug, Petty thief and Civilian: $5-15

Here's why the higher you go up you will make more. Think about it this way. When a normal joe walks into a club how much attention does that bring to the club? Not much. How much is he probably going to spend? Not a lot because he doesn't have quite as much. Now say a rock band walks in, how much do you think that will help the club? A good bit. How much do you think they'll spend? A good bit more than likely.

Now for every post an owner replies with it will make them 30% the regular value (obviously so they have a bit more motivation). Also every post in your home city will be a dramaticly lower value because it's your home city, you're seen around there more often so it's not as *special*.

Also at Made Man and up Right hand and Left Hands will add an additional boost. RH= 115% of original and LH= 110% of original value. So a 10 and 15 % increase since they're more significant than the average joe.

From Boss and up crew leaders will give a 120% bonus, so if you get a CL that's of Boss or higher you get an extra 20% credit if they visit your business. City heads however are excluded due to the fact it would cause double dipping.

Overall the goal is to get everyone traveling to more cities and spreading out business. In turn it will produce more profit for everyone meanwhile making some money for those that are giving time to those that own a business.

However if the $5,000 isn't paid there could be a fine plus a close of business maybe. That I haven't quite worked out yet.

Hopefully you all like this idea as much as I do and if I need to restate anything I've already come up with let me know. It confuses me even a bit but should work.

Also every post in your home city will be a dramaticly lower value because it's your home city, you're seen around there more often so it's not as *special*.
[...]
Overall the goal is to get everyone traveling to more cities and spreading out business.

Not that I run businesses anyway, but why would I want to make money for any other city head other than my own? Yet this suggestion means I don't have the same footing to do this on? That doesn't make sense to me. In RP terms, aren't we likely to spend more money in "businesses" on our home turf than in other cities?

Then again, on the other hand, if home cities are on a level footing we will most likely see people sticking to their home cities and/or their CLs requesting that they do.

I'm not sure why, but this seems a little crude to me. I don't mind the idea of business districts rewarding the city heads, but I'm not sure about basing it just on numbers (of posts) effectively. The third of your incentives mentions increasing quality in the BDs and I'm not convinced this would, though it would no doubt increase quantity.

I've gotta say... Hoopi raises some damned decent points there.

Mainly from an RP point of view. Why would I as a city head want my people making more money for other city heads than they would for me? With regards to the business district alone ofcourse.


The idea on whole is a good one though and very well thought out.

Most mafioso will run business in their own city and after I thought about it the owner wouldn't be affected by it. Anyhow the point is to get people into business. These business are bars, restaurants, barber shops, hotels. Not just a drug front. They're not meant to make you millions, over night at least.

Hoopi, if you sit in your own city and post your ass off in your friends bar your friend and Godfather make that much more money. It keeps people from flying around. Basically it's to give people more incentive to fly as well as setup business' in other city. It wouldn't only make one city more money but every city in turn. Maybe instead the post will only take a small cut if it's in your home city and a bigger one if it's a fellow family members home city?

I like the idea....

it gives a big boost to the business district, and as for Hoopi's reply...

when you go into a store and buy some smoke, you pay for it right ? yet again if you own a store you expect every single person that walks in to PAY for the smoke they take or else it wouldn't be called Business

hell we might as well call it the Charity district

You make your money when they make their post saying what they're doing and such. The more they post, the more you get.

and as for Hoopi's reply...when you go into a store and buy some smoke, you pay for it right ? yet again if you own a store you expect every single person that walks in to PAY for the smoke they take or else it wouldn't be called Business

hell we might as well call it the Charity district

Your point has nothing at all to do with anything I said above, but don't worry about wasting your time reading, just get your thoughts out there. Quick.

I own a cafe. This cafe is a front for laundering money. People come to me because they know I can get your money spotless. They call me the Cleaner. If you're going to give me, say, $5,000 in traceable cash to put through the system, I'd maybe get 10% of that for my services. Why would I risk pissing you off by demanding $1 for your coffee when you're giving me $500 at the other end?

Hypothetical scenario, but it's applicable with almost any mob business. The businesses are not businesses. They are facades, a veneer to smooth over the ilegality of what goes on behind closed doors. If by shop/bar/restaurant covers up the fact that I run a gambling/smuggling/laundering business from the back room, then I'm not going to charge my patrons for a drink, because they'll just find another gambling den/launderer/smuggler instead. Charging makes no sense RP wise.

Actually, I quite like the idea. Certainly if the MRSE started up again it would fit in nicely with that.

Couple of things to say though. Firstly to Hoopi,

but why would I want to make money for any other city head other than my own? Yet this suggestion means I don't have the same footing to do this on? That doesn't make sense to me. In RP terms, aren't we likely to spend more money in "businesses" on our home turf than in other cities?

Perhaps I'm missing something in my understanding here (which is quite possible tbh - it's early), but do we not already pay out vast sums of money to other family heads every time we travel and make use of Drug Front Properties? Every time I buy, say, 30 units of coke for 9k each I might make 1k on each unit, so my family heads cut is 20% (or whatever it's set at) of the 30k profit, but the DFP owners boss's cut is some 20% of 270k is it not? This benefits the other CL more than it does yours, but we do it anyway because all cities are on an equal footing as regards being open and allowing their drugs to be bought. Certainly I don't stay in Chicago to make use of only the DFP's of the windy city.

Furthermore, compared to the money we spend on drugs from DFP's, the amounts in question here are miniscule, so I dont see people being confined to one city or another.

Next to Noah's point

If by shop/bar/restaurant covers up the fact that I run a gambling/smuggling/laundering business from the back room, then I'm not going to charge my patrons for a drink, because they'll just find another gambling den/launderer/smuggler instead. Charging makes no sense RP wise.

I'd agree with you there, but in all honesty, how many of these bars and clubs in the business district ACTUALLY have something else going on? Not many. Especially since there is no need to launder money and there are fully coded casinos in which to do your gambling. From an RP perspective maybe people should switch their attitudes and pretend that there is, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

Lastly, I'd just like to say that in my view the fee that you pay to the city head ought not to be set in stone, it should be alterable by that city head, making for some cities that go for the few bars - high tax route and others that go for the low tax - masses of bars route. Also payout should not depend on just rank, but QUALITY of post as well. Not sure how you'd necessarily implement that, but the admins keep telling us such a system already exists to decide how many points you get per thread, so it could be easy to do.

Noah-Levenstein, people ran these operations out of the back of a business. Businesses take money to operate, like rent, utilities, etc. It's all a cover up for what "really" goes on but I haven't seen a business in a very long time that actually acts like that or one that is RPed to that caliber. Every business I've been to in recent has been portrayed as a usual restaurant, bar or something of the sorts. It acts as nothing more but a business. While those businesses made money back in the day who got a cut? The Godfather. With the Godfather getting an auto cut of every business being there plus a cut of profits it already simulates that part.

Hoopi I coudln't have said it better than Fredio, but if you wish to stay in your homecity and try to make what other's are making you're more than willing to.

Perhaps I'm missing something in my understanding here (which is quite possible tbh - it's early), but do we not already pay out vast sums of money to other family heads every time we travel and make use of Drug Front Properties? Every time I buy, say, 30 units of coke for 9k each I might make 1k on each unit, so my family heads cut is 20% (or whatever it's set at) of the 30k profit, but the DFP owners boss's cut is some 20% of 270k is it not? This benefits the other CL more than it does yours, but we do it anyway because all cities are on an equal footing as regards being open and allowing their drugs to be bought. Certainly I don't stay in Chicago to make use of only the DFP's of the windy city.

On the one hand, we're talking about business owners and on the other hand you are talking about DFP customers. Why would they be comparable? Lets compare business owners and DFP owners. As DFP owners, we all buy DFPs in our own city. If businesses are to start making money for the owner and the city head, then would it not make sense that the vast majority of people would want to buy/run a business in their own home town? That way, any money they're not making directly is finding it's way to their city head's pocket.

Except, this proposal - I think - means that if I open a business in New York and encourage all my fellow NY family and friends to pop in, we're working on reduced rates compared to if I'd gone to St Louis and started my business and told everyone to fly there and participate. Why exactly? Because "every post in your home city will be a dramaticly lower value because it's your home city, you're seen around there more often so it's not as *special*". I don't understand why.

With regards to being DFP customers, yes, we use them anywhere because we also make money out of the deal, regardless of how it affects the leader of the city we're in. There's no incentive here for me to go to another city, as a customer, just to use their business district. I don't get anything out of it. 

This part of the proposal we're focussing on seems to be there in order to encourage people to go open a business in another city (ie, "Overall the goal is to get everyone traveling to more cities and spreading out business"), but I don't see why a New Yorker would want to open his business in another city or at the very least, why the effects of doing it in his home city should be to his detriment.

The amounts involved are small, but that doesn't alter the fact it seems to make no RP sense and therefore might be a bit flawed. As I say, I'm not totally averse to the BDs having some use somehow because they currently don't in my opinion (beyond certain skills), but I don't know what and I don't know that this is the answer.

It's all a cover up for what "really" goes on but I haven't seen a business in a very long time that actually acts like that or one that is RPed to that caliber. Every business I've been to in recent has been portrayed as a usual restaurant, bar or something of the sorts. It acts as nothing more but a business. 

While those businesses made money back in the day who got a cut? The Godfather. With the Godfather getting an auto cut of every business being there plus a cut of profits it already simulates that part.

On the first point, maybe more effort needs to go into the businesses then, before we start handing out cash just for participation in what, really, has little part in cosa nostra anyway but has somehow become part of the MafiaReturns experience.

Regarding your second point, this goes back to the question of why exactly I'd be discouraged from having my business in my own city. I've no reason to fly to LA and open a business....New York is my base and if I'm opening a front, you'd think it should be convenient to assist me in my "operations", whatever they may be.

Firstly, I changed the thought on owners being reduced. They make the same anywhere and posts are worth the same from them. So in turn you could run a business in your homecity and make money and such there it's just family members wouldn't be able to get the same dollar amount per post. It's meant to get people posting like when they go out of town and such.

If you got the same value of posts in your homecity as any other city why even bother opening a business in another city and they wouldn't fly as much if they had their own business in their homecity. Basically it keeps people from going from family member to family member and having them post in their BD just to get post count up because a lot of members spend most their time in their home city.

If everything counter balances like it should and you make money in your city just like everyone else is would it really matter? Your city head would make the same money he would if you were making it for him as the other's are.

If you got the same value of posts in your homecity as any other city why even bother opening a business in another city and they wouldn't fly as much if they had their own business in their homecity. 

Exactly....why bother opening a business in another city? I wouldn't because it doesn't make sense. However, I don't believe that anything suggested here is enough to make people stop flying as much. As has been acknowledged, the sums involved are paltry, so I seriously doubt people are going to stop flying just so they can sit in their home city RPing in the BD. Infact, if this was the case, then the reverse is true also in that people would sit in whichever city their "business" is in....home city or not is irrelevant.

Basically it keeps people from going from family member to family member and having them post in their BD just to get post count up because a lot of members spend most their time in their home city. 

Wouldn't a proper front expect to have more activity from family members/fellow city members than random strangers from other crews/cities?

If everything counter balances like it should and you make money in your city just like everyone else is would it really matter? Your city head would make the same money he would if you were making it for him as the other's are.

I would say yes, it matters. Just because the end effect is 'everyone will make money' doesn't mean the route to that point is correct.

I'm sure there was a previous discussion on linking DFPs to businesses in the business district. Maybe that's the answer. Rather than handing out cash freely all over the place via both DFPs and now the BDs as proposed here, people should be ensuring they have an active front in their home city as part of the upkeep their DFP (on top of the bribes). This would probably bring family interaction into the BDs because of the need to ensure all the family "fronts" are being properly tended to. People would be working for the currently-free cash their DFP brings them daily.

Did you mean this: http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/74738?

Had to be you didn't it...

....aye, that's what I was referring to. Maybe the route is down that path rather than what we currently see of "free" cash being handed out left, right and centre.

No need to resent my genius.

Accept it and move on. You'll be a far happier person as a result.

Personally Hoopi I don't see how if one individual runs a quality business thread how it's free money.

Haven't got time to address all posts here, I'll contribute properly later, but:

Noah-Levenstein, people ran these operations out of the back of a
business. Businesses take money to operate, like rent, utilities, etc.
It's all a cover up for what "really" goes on but I haven't seen a
business in a very long time that actually acts like that or one that
is RPed to that caliber.

I personally couldn't justify a coded change which is simply pandering to the fact that people don't RP properly. To use an absolutely extreme concept, it is like making HQ's publicly viewable forums because strictly speaking, mobsters wouldnt speak openly in streets; ipso facto omerta is null and void so we don't need secrecy in HQ's

Again, I do realise that's a very extreme example, but as I said I just can't see the sense of turning what should be a 'mobster' business district into a 'legit' business district, simply on the basis that this is the manner in which people are currently (and ignorantly) 'roleplaying' in that forum. Personally, I think Grin's previous idea of drug front properties being tied into the business district would be pushing the forum in a much better direction; but this doesn't seem to have garnered much support from the powers that be.