Walking out from the bar he swaggered a little as he walked up to the crowd in the street. Clearing his throat he fumbled with some paper and tobacco until he'd constructed a rather clumsy looking smoke. Lighting up he drew a deep breath and blew out a large plume before speaking.

I've been watching these streets for a while now. I've seen the comings and goings. The normal and the necessary speeches concerning policy, placement and payment aside, I must say I am getting a tad concerned with the general populous. I mean, its understandable that business policies in LA needed discussion, its clear that we needed to know Pooh was going to set up and its important that the various other aspects of our leader's decisions should be told to all, to keep the community informed. However, what about the rest of you?

Gwarble and Co. provide a marvellous source of community entertainment and all the congratulations are duly warranted for the obvious effort and hard work that goes into their production. That single example aside, who else is really asking questions? Who else has voiced opinions or even interesting points of debate? About our community, where we are, what the future holds, what's the next step or even what they want to see happen? Not enough.

We may well be very happy with the sterling job our leaders are doing for the community and not wish to pick holes where none need picking. That doesn't mean we can't take an interest, ask questions, make suggestions, hold discussions. I have seen WAY too many people out here telling stories with little or no relevance. We're Mafioso not bards. If you are sharing a personal story to teach something to younger members, great! If you are waffling about Bobby and Peter for nothing more than the love of your own voice...No thanks. People starting, what are in effect, businesses in the wrong place. People making boasts that amount to nothing. People making noises without really saying anything, as if the sound of their own voices alone warrants an audience. Well it doesn't.

Taking another long pull on his smoke and a longer one on the bottle of bourbon in his other hand, he casts a bleary eye over the gathered.

Hey. I'm no captain-fantastic with all the right answers and truth be told, I am very happy with the current situation as a whole. I am simply suggesting more debate and healthy dialog. Off the top of my head, I'll make a suggestion, maybe something to kick the grey matter into action and get a sense of public feeling. Hmm, seeing as this one lies in Deimne's hands...Lets talk about St Louis. Now I'm sure there are plans for this city but in its current state, there is no harm in throwing a few ideas around. As it stands there are no families in that city. So...What would you like to see there?

Would you like another conventional auth? Stability, reassuring commerce and community as we find in most all our other cities?

Or would you like chaos, lawlessness and carnage? The city declared 'wild' and no protection for anyone who is brave enough to enter?

Maybe something less drastic but just as entertaining. The city could be fought for by prospective leaders willing to put their life on the line to try and take and hold it?

Maybe you'd just like to see it left as little more than a tourist town?

As I said, I have no particular desire to see it go in any given direction. I am however, interested in ideas. I'd like to hear what people think should happen or just what they think would be fun to see happen.

Looking at the people, struggling to hold many in focus for any period, Tyrion finishes his smoke and takes a much needed seat to listen.

There are a million things we could be discussing. This is only one suggestion. So tell me... What do you think? What would you do?

Bell sits on the park bench and smiles up into the warm sun.  It had been a long morning and it was nice to have a  moment to just enjoy the weather.  As she's sitting there with her face turned towards the sky and her eyes closed, her ears pick up on a slightly slurred speech being made.  As the speech goes on, Bell lifts her head back up and opens her eyes, now interested in what this guy was saying.  Turning around in her seat, she spots the man standing there talking to a few who were listening. She was unfamiliar with who he was, though she'd seen him a few times before.  He was close to the end of this speech and she had a few things to comment on, so she stood up and sauntered over to the small crowd to toss in her two cents.   

Sir, though I have to applaud you for your effort here, I have to disagree.  In my personal opinion, I feel there is no way in hell that self respecting mafioso are going to openly discuss their plans for anything in public.  All plans are made with quiet whispers and behind closed doors.   Omerta defines the way we conduct our business.  Silence is our code of conduct.

Now these "stories" you speak of?  I've seen a few mafioso here and there on the corners spouting out random stories from the history books of their grandfathers.  But I've also seen and been involved in, some very interesting activities that may hold no importance or significance to you or Joe Blow over here.  But what they hold for those involved is a chance to build relationships with mafioso outside of your circle of family.

And relationships, as we all should know, are the most important part of this thing of ours. 

With Bell saying what she had to say, she turned around and went back to the bench and the warmth of the afternoon sun.

Passing through the streets PoisonousJelly hears a man speaking. Speaking with some decent ideas and not utterless drivel like a lot of the other people he's walked past and eaves dropped on today

I think the current state of affairs regarding debate and such on the streets is because it's all been heard or done before. The same questions arise and the same questions are given. Never to any ovail, unfortunately.

As for St Louis, i'd kind of like to see a free for all. Purely for the entertainment value of an onlooker. Now i'm not saying that a bunch of people from rival families should set up there and kill each other for power. If that was the outcome of it, then so be it. Since control of it lies in Godfather Deimne's hands then maybe 3-5 people could pay him a sum of money to set up there to a set of pre-determined rules.

1) You are entirely on your own when it comes to desputes within your city. If another Boss of St Louis takes a shot at you, you sort it yourself without the help of any outside allies you may have.

2) You may seek outside assistance from any outside allies that you have if another city takes a shot at you. (Or you could request assistance and help strengthen ties from the other SL Bosses)

3) What you do within St Louis is completely your choice, but if the other Bosses don't like it or agree with it then you're on your own.

These are just a few very basic examples but could provide the base to what I think is a decent idea. However, what if one of these newly appointed Bosses challenges for the Godfather spot within hours of stepping foot in St Louis? Again, it would be right down to the other Bosses of St. Louis of how to deal with it or whether to just accept it and move on to helping St Louis a prosperous city.

St Louis can not be left empty of any mafia involvement. It is of no use to us as mafioso if it lay as a dorment tourist town nor would it be good for business or profits.

My great x whatever grandparents came to the old country as story tellers, 'bards' as you tell it. Given the physical structure of our world, the streets are the historical place for this story telling to take place. If you don't like it, then there is a simple solution... walk on by.

Diversity in approach is important. The road to homogenisation is an easy one to travel should those in power force us to live in their image, and in this humble mobster's opinion one we have already travelled down too far. Every HQ has a near identical set of rules in place, even to the point where if we are shot at we do not have an absolute right to return fire... I could go on but I fear that is a conversation for another day.

The streets are one of the few places remaining where we get to show our individuality, be it Gwarble's caustic humour or Kates' verbosity or that of the debaters or the bards among us, to each his own, and there's room enough out here to accommodate all approaches.

As for St Louis, I firmly believe that an open city is just that, open. If it were my call we'd just throw open the doors and anyone who wishes to could, with the permission of their boss, leave home and strike out on their own.

Yes, this can lead to instability, and yes, this has been tried many times before and it hasn't always worked... but I just prefer this raw power grab approach to the system of authing people into a vacant city.

Liar - 

I'd really like to hear the debate on a mobster's right to self-defense.  The current protocol of filing a complaint and waiting is universally practiced and strikingly absurd.  Now this seems the perfect example of what Tyrion is driving at.  Can a group of foot soldiers hit the streets and challenge a widely practiced dogma--perhaps leading to some change in policy?  Sure, why not?  Will a few overstep their bounds and talk themselves into a corner? Most likely (and I am speaking from experience here).

Unfortunately the average Guido spends his life toeing the line, too scared to cultivate a personality and an opinion.  This fear of the streets actually grows as one ascends the ladder, proving a great and well-known law of physics - rank increases and balls decrease.  

I'm not sure whether the St. Louis idea is an example of Tyrion's greater point, or a genuine point to be debated.  Frankly I would like to see the city 100% lawless.  Just give me a few minutes to buy a plane ticket outta here first.

I fear I must disagree with you Mr Liar. I beleive that the right thing to do regarding St Louis is for it to be discussed behind closed doors. There are too many unfriendly ears on the streets.

However I will wholeheartedly agree with you about diversity being the way forward for all to express themselves as they wish (within the set boundaries of course).

It is nice and occasionally amusing to hear the ramblings of those possibly suffering from OOCitis but there generally is a gem or two which can be gleaned from them.

Turning to Bellissima, Tyrion nods.

Thanks for your response. I must clarify however that I have at no point asked for open discussion by the leaders on their plans. I would never expect them to publicly voice private discussions. I was asking the general population to engage in recreational debate about a currently existing scenario. An effort to stimulate debate, nothing more. If leaders such as PoisonousJelly wish to express an opinion, who am I to say no?

Thanking PoisonousJelly for his contribution, he moves along to The_Liar.

I must say, you do have a point. You and Bellissima both mentioned the relevance and purpose of different types of speeches, in particular the stories. I feel I may have seemed a little more blinkered to such speeches than was my initial intention. In point of fact I do not oppose almost any thoughtful or imaginative style of speech. I was mainly concerned with balance when ninety percent of what we have had lately has been the same format stories. Balance is essential.

I can understand the use of multi-person stories as a means for some to grow in confidence with public speaking. However the streets should also be a hive of debate, public opinion, even dissenting voices against opposed policies. These are qualities that have been all too conspicuous by their absence lately.
Some people are clearly confident enough to write and take part in hundreds of stories and themes but seem to lack the imagination or bravery to open a real topic for discussion. Its that, that gives cause for concern in the long run.

Turning to Glock45, Tyrion shakes him firmly by the hand.

My friend, your voice is exactly the type of thing I would like to see more of. Stepping outside of the comfort zone and risking a difference of opinion. Having an idea and the balls to step up and make a case for it. So what if the idea gets shot down? So what if you turn out to be proved wrong? At least you got involved, stood up and had a go. My applause to you sir.

Thanking the good people for their valued contribution, he lights another smoke and sits back .

Gently stroking his chin, Deimne finishes his whiskey and puts his hipflask back in his jacket pocket.

An interesting topic to raise The_Liar, very interesting. It's one that is currently undergoing discussions behind closed doors so nice to see it get a public airing too. It's one that has the potential to end up stepping on quite a number of toes, but that's a common problem with anything worth tackling.

Our world seldom has black and white answers. Having a 'general rule' on how to handle a situation doesn't mean there can't or won't be exceptions. If an associate takes a pop shot at a friend of ours, I have seen and am sure I will continue to see some leaders give authorisation to return fire. I've done it personally and will continue to. Am I right? Hell yeah I am. How I choose to allow my city to operate is my choice. If someone has a problem with it, they've got a problem with me and with New York that they can bring to me verbally or through an act of agression. Neither I would suggest would or will end well.

My stance is obviously different if the infraction is carried out by a button man. It is only in exceptional circumstances where I, or I would allow any of my guys, to take action without due consideration to the status that a button holds. You don't lay a finger on a made guy without knowing the heat it can, could or will bring on you.

Does this mean that every leader should follow this route? Obviously not. They have to make their own decission. If a leader allowed someone to 'return' fire in a case where either the claim was false or they're not in a position to provide me with the required proof it was justified, they're putting their entire city at risk. I protect each New Yorker, friend of ours or associate, as if my own... so if someone touches them in the wrong I will bring the wrath of hell upon them. So it's not something that can be taken lightly. But to suggest that there is no 'grey area' in terms of ones right to defend themself is a falicy I can personally dispell.

So, a perfect example of the type of discussion this speech was aimed at encouraging.

As for the matter of Saint Louis, I'd suggest it was simply one possible example given that shows the greater issue in a perfect light. Tyrion broached it in a perfect manner. He's aware that the decision lies in my hands, he isn't making a demand or suggesting that he knows better than I do by raising it, he's just giving an opinion on what he might like to see for currently existing scenario. There are one hundred different ways someone could tackle this subject and end up offending me greatly, either to warrent a verbal retort of a less than friendly manner or even to warrent me wanting their head on a stick, but there are thousands of ways, such as the way it has been presented, in which there is no possible cause for offence and will lead to a discussion that all would enjoy.

It's quite possible, nee probable, that I in making my decision would give it no weight at all. I'm a man of strong opinions and great confidence in my decisions. But I have no concerns about others choosing to debate possible options or outcomes that they might believe to be a good step forward for our world. Even if such an idea isn't used in the scenario at hand, Saint Louis (in this current example), it could very well spark ideas for future leaders in a similiar scenario.

The bottom line is that any debate or discussion, as long as it is presented and carried out in the right manner, is a positive one. As Tyrion has pointed out, balance is the key here. I have to agree that at times, our world greatly lacks people with the motivation (or perhaps it's the ability to do it in the right way without offending others) to bring innovative and interesting discussion to the masses. While it's great to stumble across a story being told where it will educate our younger associates and teach valuable life lessons, if all we ever bump into on our streets are people waxing lyrical on days of old, it's a bad state of affairs.

Claps Tyrion on the shoulder, while slipping a gold coin into his jacket pocket.

Ole Floyd stumbles out the alley, after taking a piss and speaks a few words.

Pertaining to the action or lack there of in our streets, basically comes down to people not knowing if what they're going to say is the right thing to be spoke.  Everyone has different opinions of what's respectful or not.  That being so, our streets are what they are. We walk around a world nowadays where people stick their feet out just for toes to be stepped on.  I said that meaning, no matter what a person says or how respectful it is, there's going to be one or two that will find the smallest details and turn the whole topic in a direction it wasn't intended to go.

Personally, I hate that for the youngsters and a few of the old heads.  After stealing so many purses and fullfilling contracts on bums who don't pay up, people don't want it all going to waste for a slip of the tongue.  Which leads me back to what I side at first. You step out the alley and a big toe is right at the corner.  It's just the direction we've taken, which has been a crash coarse for the streets.

Floyd almost trips, but steps over a toe and continues.

As for St. Louis, I'm sure Godfather Deimne will do as he pleases with it and my opinion holds no weight.  I'll give this 1 anyway, because my ancestors having been preaching it over many lifetimes:

> Treat it as a new beginning (reset). Anyone can go their, rank up without the protection of a sponsor (but only in St. Louis under the protection of GF Deimne and wouldn't be allowed to leave that city), starts crews and fight for city head. Pretty much no laws as others have already stated. No Dons taking GF/GM, no Bosses, Capos and so on. Just fresh thugs off the boat. I could only imagine the suicide rate if such a thing was to happen. Just my 2 cents.  Holds no weight, but you asked for opinions so there goes.

Flody takes a swig of moonshine and heads back in the alley for another piss.

Tyrion, while I hold what you've said in regard I'd actually like to touch on Floyd's idea about St Louis.

This idea greatly amuses me, for after a quick glance at the collective families, it is clear to see there are many who hold the rank to take over this fine city. While it may only be true of a handful, I'm sure there are people who are "chomping at the bit" to take the reigns. I personally feel that to follow the course that Floyd has set in would be a very interesting idea.

For like him it would be most intriguing to see to what extent the suicides or convenient gun malfunctions would turn up. So that Said people would like to see their offspring have a go. For it would be interesting, especially for those who committed suicide. For as one of the existing family heads would have to then question where said offspring's fathers loyalty lay in the first place, while their rise to power may go smoothly, their ability to hold on to it may be rather difficult.

Listening to Floyd and Dante had to say, Tyrion interjects.

I can see one logistic issue with your proposed idea there Floyd. The only way to make that experiment successful would be to ensure all the unsponsored contenders remained in the city for the duration. If they travelled to other cities with no family name to ensure their behaviour they would almost certainly get shot. That said it would also make life quite frustrating for any participants as they would not be able to travel and get any of the benefits that freedom can yield.

It would be a lot to give up. Even more if anyone considered what Dante has suggested and suicide to allow their next of kin to attempt the goal. Its certainly interesting but I fear the pool of willing contenders would be quite small given those conditions.

That is true Tyrion, but considering how fast people rank these days we're looking at a minimal time (11 days) before there would be Mademan sponsors in St.Louis and travel restored.  At this point those sponsored would be able to travel, meaning those who may feel frustratation of not touring our cities could join and travel freely.  Those left unsponsored would still be able to rank without facing the consequences and the trend continues.  The main flaw I always considered in such a plan was always enforcement.  Considering Deimne would be in charge of such a project I'm sure enforcement would be the least of concerns. People respect him greatly and no one would want to feel, as we call it "the raft".  If so, that city would be cleared within hours, or maybe minutes and we're back at square one with St. Louis.

So I'm pretty sure those who become sponsored in St. Louis would respect his rules and leave those unsponsored alone.  We wouldn't have to worry about other cities taking shots at these unsponsored in St. Louis or there would be more free cities for different projects.  This plan has always been about enforcement (there haven't been many with enough power to enforce such a plan on all cities) and if the enforcer has the power to make things run smoothly, they will.

At this point stradegy comes into play. I can already see other cities sending OWP gangsters in just so they might have a chance of gaining control of a second city.  The opportunities are unlimited.  I don't think travel their for outside cities would be a problem because they know the consequence of taking random shots at that cities unsponsored.  Before you know it you would see 4 or 5 crews (more like gangs) set up in Da Lou. More wars frequently and much to talk about in the streets. Pretty much a power struggle in as I would call it the "Land of No Laws" or the "Land of Deimne's Law".

Now again, there is alot more to iron out but that is just the base of such a idea.  I think it's more possible than impossible. What do you think Tyrion?

Floyd takes a seat on the bench because by this point the moonshine has taken it toll.

Sipping his java and enjoying a beignet while visiting on unrelated business, Alfonce mumbles to himself.. "Just let the Tyler Durden gang have it until all of this is sorted out between the high pillows" "At least that way everyone has someone to knockover."

Walking across to Floyd, he shakes him by the hand.

As a final response on this particular idea, I would just have to say thanks. Its a interesting idea and you have given potentially viable solutions to some of the preliminary problems. At this point, on this idea, I would just say this...Those with the power to make that decision will be informed of your suggestion, after that, the future lies entirely in their hands.

As I said I have no personal preference about what happens there. This is just an exercise in topical debate and trying to get the community a bit more active in discussing current events.

Moving back to his chair outside the local cafe, Tyrion kills the rest of his coffee and orders another.

After sitting back many hours and thinking what the city of STL can become, I have come up with an idea that could be a bit more fun rather just selecting a captain or a Don for the city.

Over the past STL has seen many blood spills, many friends and foes lost in the battle.

The Idea:

Let 3-4 people set up. Each member that sets up gets to take one member with them for RHM/pro'er. During this time they must battle for the city of St. louis. They will not be allowed to leave the city until we have a winner. No one over VWP should be allowed to set up. As its no fun having someone OWP setting up, so no one could hit them..

They can only recive pro's from there RHM that they have took with them, If found to have taken a pro from someone else they will be classed as cheating and should be killed. Once they have won the city they wull be knowing as the acting city head until/if they make it to Godfather/mother of that city.

The question is will the city heads let one of there Members go?

Also a bit that i missed. The member that the people set up take as RH/pro'er may also be killed.Once the pro'er is dead then your left to defrend for yourself. If found taken pro's from Friends within, You will be taken out and so will be the person who pro'd you.

One little issue I have with your suggestion CantThinkOfAName, is that this is not ancient Rome and St. Louis is not the colosseum.

we are in organised crime, let's act like it, eh?