What does it mean to you, from both your own actions and those of others?

Everywhere that I've worked, Integrity has been one of the companies core values. Doing what is right when it is easier, safer or more beneficial to yourself to do the opposite. Honesty, or strong moral principals, although your morals are entirely based on your perspective.

Situations we find ourselves in on MR give many opportunities to test out integrity, to find out what we're really made of. For example, having prior knowledge of a war which would see your friends wiped out. Do you maintain the position of trust you've been gifted with, or raise the alarm to those who have been loyal to you in the past?

Perhaps you've been assigned a close friend as a target in an upcoming takedown, do you take it, no questions asked? Do you request a change? Or do you tip them off?

A factor to consider most when faced with these scenarios, is not where your loyalties lay, but how those you would be informing would react. Would they question my integrity as a rat?

The strength of your integrity will always show when you do right by your current commitments, not past or future. Sure, there may be gratitude for you tipping off the other side, but you're then open to risk of being considered untrustworthy by both sides. This is regardless of if your sole purpose within a crew is to gather information, you are still known for being willing to commit that act and there is no telling how your relationships will unfold in the future. 

Making the difficult choice of seeing through your orders and maintaining the trust of your superiors, may well be something you do not feel happy with, however both parties will know you are loyal when it counts, that you are willing to make the difficult decision for the sake of your reputation and integrity.

Where do loyalties lie, and friendships end. Blurred lines at burning speed as opposed to the old straight and narrow path. Scripture tells us that you can't serve two masters - you'll grow to hate one and love the other. There, we're cautioned against pursuing things of the flesh while also chasing kingdom business and counseled to select a side. Seems analogous to this discussion as well.

When you join a family, you pull on that jacket, and you wear it all of your days. People observe you. They see everything you do. Your life is circumspect, every word spoken scrutinized. Your loyalty lies with them. You can't serve your family while simultaneously taking actions such as you have outlined in the original post; the warning of friends of impending war, begging off a shot, et al. Some like to rp differently, and that's understandable. Essentially, I don't believe in doing anything that would in any way bring my character into question. Your word, your loyalty, your honor. They should all be above reproach. Some like to play that agent provocateur/agente provocatrice role, and that's their way of having fun. It's just not for me. People have long memories. I'd rather any recollection be favorable in my case.

I'd rather get or leave a clever whisper from/as a friend than any sort of warning. Don't put me in that spot. I won't do it to you. No good can come of it. Pick a side. Stay commited.

One scenario not touched upon is one that I, as well as others have had to deal with in the past. You become a CL, you have a family to look after now. You take in someone whom has been known to go rogue. Everyone, I mean everyone is now up in your business. The member in question swears their loyalty and makes a promise to not go red. Now that member reaches wise guy, and you have a problem. They have put in the time and effort to get their button. Every other CL is watching what you do. What's your choice? You promised to take care of your members, all of them. Not just the ones you like the most. All of them. Chance them buying out and going rogue the minute that promotion comes through? Let them sit at WG all of their days? Put a bullet in them yourself and end the whole mess?

Doing the right thing is never easy, is it. But at the end of the day, you have zero regrets.

Integrity is something that can always be a bit of hit and miss with myself. I'd like to be able to say my moral compass points right at all times, but it doesn't so I won't.

There are times when our integrity is tested, you get a heads up on your leader going to kill you, then what?

A scenario I have found myself in the past is that I knew my Godfather had given the nod to have me killed along with my family, rather than lie down and refuse to take arms up on those that had given me the nod to set up, I chose to strike first. After all, I gave no cause for such an attack and I felt I had to do right by my own family, not by my Godfather. A fighting chance, rather than allow all to die.

I feel it's hard to have an open and honest relationship with your leader at times, particularly when right out of the gate you're more often than not asked if they had known any of your previous accounts or one of the many other questions used to find out your bloodline. Straight away you will be judged on those previous accounts and as a leader there's little chance to build a rapport with a member once you find out that bloodline has been tainted in the past, since you've most likely made your mind up on them, the chance of starting a fresh has gone and I feel as a leader you've betrayed your own integrity by asking the question.

I can completely understand why people do ask the question, the last thing you want to do is jeopardise a cap killing gun by promoting a potential rogue, or even draw attention to yourself as someone who promotes Rogues. People invest heavily into their accounts these days, with both money and a LOT of time so it's natural people want to be cautious. However, as I say I feel it affects the integrity of those leaders who do it.

As for your scenario @PeterRockwell there are ways to test ones loyalty if you're unsure, particularly if it involves friends. Leaking false plans of war, giving them names of friends to shoot while knowing that friend is in another city. If it forces their hand at that point, at least the damage is limited as they're just a Wise Guy.

It is called lack of RP and  goes against the standards of the mafia. This is what makes this so boring.

I was unaware that in the real mafia role playing was a "standard." Did they dress up in silly outfits and play house?

The OOC forum, if used properly, can be an excellent place for a very strong discussion on the game itself. Such as what LG has done here. He had a topic that was obviously out of character. Rather than dressing it up in "cigar smoke" and "my ancestor's journals" he just posted it for what it was, here in the OOC forum. I applaud him, because if he had posted it in the streets I probably wouldn't have bothered trying to dig through all the poor RP people would have to dress their replies up in in order to make it an in character discussion. Using the OOC forum instead allowed him, and those replying to him, the opportunity to get straight to the point. Which I will attempt to do now.

Integrity. 

I like what Porter said about blurred lines at burning speeds. In the heat of the moment your true colors will shine through. Your real loyalties will be revealed for the world to see. When the reaper comes for you, do you place your trust in your friends or your family? The guy that authed you three years back or the man that has housed you, protected you, put his faith in you?

I for one, have tried to stand for those I was responsible for. Be that my crew, my district, or my city. There was a time where I let outside friendships weigh on these decisions, and I have paid my price for it.

What can your friends do for you that your leaders cannot? If they are any sort of leader, they will protect you to the death. They will reward you for your hard work. And you owe it to them to stand with them until death. Take it from someone who has experienced both sides of the equation. There is no greater loyalty than the loyalty of those you earned by standing up for and defending them.

Integrity is the only thing you can lose and never get back, i lost mine a long time ago.

John, you're thinking of "virginity".

I usually find it's best to put yourself in a situation where your morals and integrity can't be tested, if you have friends you don't/think you can't shoot - join them. That way when it's time to roll, there is no hesitation.

I often find with the right leader you find yourself "loyal" to them long after you have both died on your respective characters, I suppose that then moves into a friendship relationship in which you should join them, if you don't want to shoot them.

That's why so often the same friendship groups are always found together, a prime example of that being here in Chicago. The same friends, authing the same friends. Which is fine, whilst everyone is on the same team; but the lines will invariably blur as friends are given cities outside of this one and then we see the crew leaders integrity and loyalty. Then outside friends start whispering and then the same questions are asked - what do you care more about?

You only really find out in war the true makings of a man. This is something I've said often, both his competence and his person. Some are more then willing to go down with you whilst others will jump just as quickly to those that just shot you. Those are the ones that never gave a shit about you, really. They just wanted the free home and when you see hands of fallen Godfathers/Crew Leaders quickly joining the side that just shot you (chances are they were probably safe listed too and definitely had that "save me if you're going to shoot me" agreement in place) it makes you scratch your head as to the kind of person that is. The kind that has no integrity and no loyalty and will fuck over the world just to stay alive. The same bloodlines do it every time and yet they are still given more chances, baffles me. 

Enjoy the long-winded ramble, or not. 

PorterRockwell -  Great comments, your point of including RP when considering integrity raises another interesting point with me. I love giving my character background and a sense of lore that is never known unless the right questions are asked. However, all the characters that I play have a sense of "moral amenability" to them, in that they will purposely meet the expectations of how someone should behave on the game as to not tarnish my reputation on other characters. For example - I'd love to play a rat character, someone who likes to instigate chaos and will do anything to ensure their own survival, however I know that the repercussions will extend far beyond that character, as some will not differentiate between a character and the user.

With regards to taking in someone who you are aware is considered 'hot', I have experience of this while leading as SammyGato. The first instance being someone who was known to be an asshat and requested housing in my crew. Personally, I had no issues with that person, as they had never done one over on myself. I approached the situation directly and made it clear that I wasn't holding anything against them and would not treat them any differently, however only once will I ever offer blind faith in a person. If they betray that trust, then given the fair warning, it wouldn't happen again.

The second instance was briefly before we were taken down, I took in someone who another crew leader in the city detested, and am fairly certain it attributed to the breakdown of relations. My perspective? Morally I had a clear conscious, I can't be labelled as a bloodliner for turning someone away just because they were not liked. And at the end of the day, everyone from that point in the game is dead now anyway, so what was more important?

Finally (Gone on for longer than I expected), my previous character was 100% incog and in character. He was loyal to his crew to the very end, whenever that naturally would have been. However, I was aware that given the tensions at that time, it wouldn't be too long before an account growing strength as it was would soon be questioned. I didn't want to put my CL in any position to make the difficult decision and so took a bullet and ended my fun. I know my CL had the integrity to make the right decision, however it would not have done him any favours to refuse the request of his Godfather. 

Integrity is undoubtedly my most valued trait, that I try to maintain in myself and that I look for in others. 

Fitz - You've certainly been tested in your approach to making the right decisions. Similar to this, my biggest test was when Don Voodoo was removed and our district was seen to "stand by" and do nothing. I can't really comment on the relationship the late Don held with the head of my district, however I know that the rapport I had built with the district head meant more to me that the leader of another district that had never given me the time the DH had. That's not to say if I had been the DH at the time, I wouldn't have fought in his name. The circumstances themselves were odd, in that I had been transferred into the city and not auth'd there.

I guess my actions may have been different if I thought that by inaction I was tainting my integrity, however as we know that wasn't the case.

Shogun - Thanks for your comments, inciting lots of thoughts and examples for me. You're right where you ask what differs a leader from the friends you hold stronger ties, too. If the leader engages with his/her members, they will inspire you to want to stand by them when the shit hits the fan. On the flip side, if the members are committed to the leader and their cause, then it makes for a stronger leader.

John_Ruth -  There are ways. It's difficult, but possible. You need to want to earn it back though, you can't half-arse it. 

HenrySestern - The best approach is for those around you to know your morals and approach. By being consistent though you're open to being predictable. Pro's and Con's differ, as being predictable means you will always have the same group of friends and enemies, as you will know the type of people you conflict with and those you gel with. However, there's never a problem throwing a chaotic character into the mix to keep things fresh ;]

I play this game for my own enjoyment and sometimes Sir Nigel the Noble is a fun guy to play; his views are righteous, his intentions are pure and he will always, inevitably do 'the right thing'. Lots of integrity, that guy, but it gets tiresome after a while and who wants to be bored? So, the easiest way to restore the fun is to alter the paradigm; ditch the honour, be a disruptive ratbag, sew seeds of discord, betray some leaders and generally do whatever you can get away with. 

However, it is rarely that black and white for a long and most characters fall in between, so I will take a little from column A and a little from column B and a result, end up being something akin to an ambiguous-shade-of-grey-human and react to situations as and when they arise in the manner that seems most appropriate at the time. And, unlike the pious and ever so saintly chaps who've spoken before me, who would never compromise themselves or their morals, values, blah, blah; I invariably find that most appropriate response to be the one that has the most chance of keeping me alive without visibly compromising my reputation to the point where I become untrustworthy.  

For me as a person outside of this game, obviously integrity is an important quality, but as an interchangeable character on a Mafia simulation? I really couldn't care less.

Jamie, you deserve a round of applause there. I would hazard most people fall into the exact same category. I always try to be as honourable and respectful as possible, but there are times when needs must and you do what you have to do for either the sake of your own life, a friends life or indeed the life of your City/District and the lines all start to get blurred to the point where you do have to compromise.

The key is to only do what you can live with and not hate yourself, really. Others often find it so easy to judge the actions that are taken by those in power, without understanding the thought process that is attached to it. They all like to think they could do it differently and be more honourable and have all their integrity intact.. but I've never seen it work like that.

Jamie it sounds like your openly admitting to being a snake in the grass, admittedly it's admirably worded. I have always accepted that the best approach to earn the trust and respect of a leader is to be committed to their cause, knowing that you've got an underlying desire to survive over 'visibly' affecting your reputation tells me that your integrity is only skin deep. You'll give as much as you are willing to give. Which is fine, if that's all you ever want to do. Personally, I want to live the experience of mafia life,  I want to inspire others and create immersive situations. It means considering much more than just what I want to get out of the game to do that. 

I agree with you when it comes to breaking out and playing a reckless character, however as I mentioned before, there are those who do not differentiate between character and user, making it very difficult to shake off the damage you'd do to your reputation.

making it very difficult to shake off the damage you'd do to your reputation.

I have it on good authority JamieOliver has no reputation to damage. 

In my own case I usually take a semi-obscure fictional or historical character and go from there. Taking what is known I'll stick to that individuals personality and ethos as much as possible. Portraying someone like John Joel Glanton would end up far different than if you were to be Samuel Chamberlain - even though they were contemporaries - two very different kinds of men in the same place at the same time involved in horrific crimes against humanity.

One rose above that. The other chose to continue to live that life. The latter, through his actions, almost bankrupt the state of California after his death through costly military expeditions. The former became a painter and author of some renown. Both have fascinating histories and are equally flawed.

Glanton would be that kind of person you describe - stepping on people and killing friends just to get over. Ruled by emotion and his own passion for violence. Chamberlain would be the opposite - disciplined and intelligent, driven by adventure.

Both already have a pre-existing personality and shared history. But if I was to pick Chamberlain, I would be locked into what we now know specifically about him. If he was a man of integrity, portray him as such. I wouldn't do things that were out of character. No shooting up my own hq or lies and subterfuge. If I chose Glanton I would be free to lie and steal and kill and do anything that came to mind just for the fun factor.

I don't see a right or wrong, just a choice. Within that choice lie consequences. Have fun.

Madara hmms at TomasSeverino "John, you're thinking of "virginity" he repeats...

John did say "i lost mine a long time ago." I'm not sure he WAS thinking of "virginity" 

Madara puts a hand up to where a mouth would be, behind the mask and giggles like a Japanese school girl.