No need to write letters when we are standing here face to face.  I agree with you that punks should not be standing out in public loudly criticizing important aspects of our way of life, but if they choose to do so they are dealt with.

That's not what I see here, however. I see a few people voicing their opinions on a matter.  I completely disagree with you that one must earn a certain rank in the family to voice an opinion. I encourage everyone in this family, regardless of rank, to participate in street discussions.  The only caveat is that they must be mindful of their own ranks and the ranks of others when engaging in conversation.  Since I see nothing disrespectful here, I don't see any problem.  If you don't want to hear it, then why are you here standing around and listening?

Again, the subject was brought up in a respectable manner.  Lane didn't come off disrespectful like a lot of these thugs have been lately but she has not earned a place to go about bringing up anything that bothers her because quite frankly, at such a low rank it doesn't matter to the world.

Personally, I would hate to see any of my members running out to the streets to strike up a conversation on things that bugged them.  Until they have earned their way into my family and my trust, their opinion means very little to me.  Now if a discussion were brought up by someone who's opinion actually mattered in this world and one of my members wanted to speak a part, then by all means they would have my blessings as long as they kept themselves in line and were aware of who they were talking to.

In regards to why I am here?  I wanted to voice my opinion on the matter.

Well that is fine, if you wish for your members to be mutes.  I personally do not want The Knickerbockers to have that reputation, so if you don't mind, DirtyLittleSekrit and I will decide whether or not Lane has earned the right to speak in the streets, and whether or not her opinion matters.

I will be sure to consult you if, at any time, we require your input as to proper street speaking protocol for LA mobsters.

As she is your associate, there is no doubt that her right to speak in the streets will come from blessings by yourself or DirtyLittleSekrit.  My opinion was merely a generalization of all low ranks.

And I do not wish for my family to remain mute.  Like I said, if they wish to partake in a conversation already presented before them, go for it, as long as they are aware of who they are talking to and are respectful.  I just simply would not care for my members to bring up a discussion of things they do not like in the streets.

-Lana-, leaning against the wall and eaves dropping on this conversation, was craving a cigarette really bad and was not in a good mood. It had been a while since she had heard such nonsense and couldn't wait to give her opinion.

Advantage, the streets are for everyone to speak in. Yeah, yeah...before anyone says anything, "some" higher ranks should speak more often, but I'm not here to talk about that. If a gangster comes on the streets and lauches a conversation about something that either puzzles them or troubles their conscience, then why not? The streets are hard enough, we as leaders, should give our opinions on the subject and not if the lower rank should be graced with our thoughts. Lane was respectfull in his request and I for one, will not spit on him.

Lane, I've never grave robbed, I pay way too much for my shoes to do such a thing. But lets be honest, we are mobsters, not nuns or ministers. We steal, mug and kill...that's what we do. I would have no problem committing such an act. The dead are dead, and the rest is history.

On the topic of digging up graves.. I keep the dead, dead and only visit that place to show my respects. Im not sayin I wont do it if I need to feed my family.. understand? Family comes first and if I need to dig up skeletons and steal their cash to keep the funds coming in, until there are consequences I dont like for digging those graves.. but luckily with the income from gambling, crimes and side jobs I dont have to resort to the dead for my cash.

On the topic of speaking in the street.. you know its our world to lead, things change.. leaders will have different views on when they want their members speaking in the streets, etc.. but I believe while we commit our crimes, we will talk about business and heated topics will come up. You mudy know the line, where it is and how close you can step to it before you attract the heat of the wrong people and end up swimmin.. Overtime people learn that line if they enjoy speaking their minds and surviving.

Once the grieving is over, and the grave starts to look unattended, then hell I think it's fine to go round seeing what you can get. It's no worse than robbing a little old lady for her handbag is it? Shit, the dead don't feel nothing, but that old granny sure as hell needs the money, yet we don't have a problem with that.

As a side note, I heard theres a chinese restautant in the lower east side where you can now get sweet and sour surprise. And there's been an increase in the number of bodies being taken from cemetaries. Coincidence?

As long as you don't do anything to the body, you've done no great disrespect to the dead. You steal the body and sell it to a medical school, that's disrespect. However, it pays around three grand, depending on how old it is...um, or so I've heard.

It isn't disrespect till you get caught.

Respect... ah that word!!! We all have to show it. Graverobbing? I dont see how that is a form of disrespect, as not one witnesses a graverob and the dead are dead. If someone comes in the street and start a debate in a respectful manner? Why would we high ranks come out here and bash on the guys head? I see no reason for it... the streets are for everybody. Bashing on a guys head for starting a respectful debate... is certainly disrespectful. More than graverobbing would ever be! I hope this answers your question Lane_Siegel... dont pay attention to any high ranks bashing on your issue here. It was a respectful question... and you can speak out in this fashion anytime you like! This world of ours needs more men like you!

 The Sheriff takes a seat on the stoop of a nearby porch to listen to the conversation that has started since Lane first asked for opinions on this, and finds himself a little confused. He knows Lane from around the HQ, being pretty new to public speaking he remembers her asking for help from some of the more experienced members before she even came out here. And now this?

First to be accused of complaining about something, right after saying that it's something that he'd do himself... then to be told that the streets aren't for discussions of this nature... and to top it off being told that he's too inexperienced to even voice his opinion. Yeah, confused about sums it up.

The Sheriff has always felt the streets are here for anyone and everyone to talk about anything and everything, be it stories of recent escapades, news or debates, each have their place, each have their audience.

One of the many joys of this way of life is that it has the potential for a variety of approaches, one could choose to be a mute who merely crimes and pays his way to the top, or a prolific speaker for whom rank is unimportant, or a combination of the two. There are those who love the news - the sheriff himself is a big fan of the Barble - and hate the story-tellers out here... thankfully they have an option to just walk on by those parts of town they just don't enjoy.

He stands and hitches his trousers up around his waist, a futile exercise as they immediately fall back into the folds of fat exactly as they were before. Well, having sat here so long, it's probably about time he voiced an opinion on the matter at hand.

Are you shitting me? People do that? Go out walking around graveyards in the middle of the night looking for recently buried corpses to dig up? Jesus, people do that? You wouldn't catch me out doing it, way too creepy for my blood, and... well... do I look like a guy suited to manual labour?

As for the respect issue, not a concern as I see it, most people provide for their next of kin to some extent in their will, if they happen to have a little cash in the casket with them too, as I see it, they ain't gonna be using it any time soon, so if some youngster needs a couple of grand to get himself started in this life, I'd sooner see it put to good use rather than rotting with the corpse.

I've been listening to this topic for a while now and trying to figure out my own take on it.

I can understand that family members of the deceased may be outraged to hear that their beloved ones are being robbed in their eternal sleep. However once the body is in the ground that is all it is. A shell, the person is dead and gone.

Talking down about the dead is disrespectful yes, but as to what you do to their body. Okay there are lines that aren't usually crossed but we do have some strange characters roaming our streets.

But to relieve their corpse of something that could be put to better use in your own pocket, well gee that's an easy on to decide.

Respect is for the person and as the person is dead, the body is just a shell.

An interesting question Lane. Like many others, it's not a topic I've ever given too much thought to in the past.

If someone is stupid enough to defile the grave of one of mine, then brag about it in public, I'd happily take great exception to it. I'm not sure if it's due to any real 'disrespect' as much as the hatred I have for stupidity, but either way, I'd certainly take exception to it.

The fact of the matter is, without them going out of their way to bring it to my attention, I just wouldn't know about it. So as long as they do it with a slight level of subtleness and intelligence, it's a crime that would normally go unpunished.

On the other hand, should one of my guys be able to make a quick profit by relieving a grave of some valuables, I'd certainly be all for it. Anything that brings financial gain to any of my guys is something I'd support fully.

I'd like to thank you for raising this question, it's certainly interesting to hear others thoughts. It's especially interesting to see someone suggest that due to the fact that someone hasn't earned their button that they shouldn't be out here starting a conversation with the masses. It's something I disagree with strongly. Personally, I'd view someone who isn't capable of visiting our streets and starting such a conversation as someone who hasn't yet earned the right to hold their button. However, that being a personal view it's not something I'd expect to be forced on others... so I wouldn't try.

To pick up on something mentioned earlier...

First complaints were made on the shooting of people fresh off of the boat, before giving them a full 48 hours to find a crew. The Gods fixed this issue.

Then everyone was complaining about being pickpocketed, the leaders of our fine cities implemented very clear pickpocketing laws in their cities.

Interesting examples given. Wrong and wrong.

The gods? Unless this is an attempted compliment being thrown at current or former city leads, this isn't the case. The shooting of those less than 48 hours off the boat hasn't been outlawed by gods, it has been made punishable by death by city leaders. I've never been a fan of waiting for divine intervention. If I want something changed, I'll go and change it. To suggest we need, require or expect gods to come in and 'fix' something that is under our control is a falicy and something I will never agree with.

I'd be interested to hear the "very clear pickpocketing laws" for New York?

There are none. Intentionally so.

Leadership isn't about, or at least it shouldn't be about, playing from a rule book and ticking the boxes. Sometimes rules need to be laid down clearly for things to function and to avoid certain headaches, sometimes they don't. If someone comes to New York and decides to pickpocket someone, they do so with the potential of there being consequences for their action. Depending on who they choose to go for, how their leader views it, how the leader of the target sees it... who knows what might happen. Having leaders having to actually use judgement calls or educate their members so that they need to make judgement calls... what a ground breaking idea? Ehhh. So no, not all cities have very clear laws. Especially when it comes to an unlawful act.

Whilst I want to try and echo what has already been said by others, I believe that defiling the corpse of a dead person is a very disrespectful thing to do - let's face it, a Made Man wouldn't ever commit an act like that.

The chances are, you will never be seen doing it - but if you are stupid enough to come to the streets bragging about taking a dead man's money there may be repercussions. This is definitely an interesting discussion you have brought to the streets, and one of the most original topics I have seen for a while.

Afro bows to the man