Joel walks to the the soap box and stands on it.He then clears his throat and starts to speak.

Hello everyone, I am Joel. My bloodline is relatively new to these shores and I do not have lengthy journals to fall back on for guidance,so I have come to clear a few doubts I have in my mind about the position of a Made Man.

I guess people are more respectful in the way they treat a Made Man compared to me- an associate in a Family  but I guess this has
to come with a price-Unquestioning Loyalty to the Boss.I do agree loyalty should be present in associates in large doses as well but I think that a Made Man will have to be more loyal to the Family as he takes a blood oath  to defend it. I have a few
questions to ask- What if your boss was an unjust person. I am not
saying mine is, He is a great man but just suppose my boss was an
unjust person and was planning on some idiotic act that could lead to
the destruction of the entire Family and his Right Hand Man was
planning to usurp his position for the betterment of the Family and City. Is there supposed to be a difference in the way a Made Man is
supposed to act than an associate of the same Family. Is a Made Man
supposed to tell the Boss about the plan and hence let him put down the
mutiny and then go on with his idiotic plan even though my heart is
against it or is he supposed to side with the more Charismatic RHM and
help him overthrow the boss for the sake of the lives of each and every
member of the Family or is the Made Man expected to adopt a policy of
non-alignment and jump ship to some other Family which has none of
these problems?

Please do understand that these is a possible scenario on which I have been mulling over for a very long time and I thought that maybe I could come to the Streets and ask those men and women who have more experience than me in this world.

He then moves to one side and waits for replies.   

I do believe once an associate gets his button and becomes a part of the family, he should act that way and do the best for his family. I think your button gives you the right to discuss the family's interest with other members of the upper structure of his family of course in a respectful way.

When you get your button that means you have proven loyalty than other associates have proven and should do your best to serve that family you are loyal to and defend it, that doesn't mean you should blatantly disrespect your leader telling him he's totally mistaken but discuss his decisions in a friendly and respectful way.

Alessandro lights a cigarette and waits at the corner to listen for more opinions

Well Joel, that certainly is a interesting question. But very, very easy to answer. Who does the Made Man make his blood of oath to, in fact who has invited him to become a associate in the first place. Only one man holds that title and that is the head of your association. The Rhm was carefuly chosen by this man and he is his most trustee. Well, he should be for he has second in command on every issue that occurs within the association in question. The only thing to do here is what is right, and what is right is follow the rules. You owe your life to your top leader. That is who you must follow, until you die.

By doing so, you are sure to do the right thing. As for the Rhm, in this situation, he should'nt be in that group. For he is going againts his own oath! As for leading, friends have no place there. Unless they can stand aside their friendship and do what is right that is! I hope this answers your question!

Thank You for your opinions,esteemed gentlemen but my basic question was 'Is there supposed to be a difference between an associate and a Made Man in such a situation'.I have understood what a Made Man is expected to do, thanks to you gentlemen but what about an associate?  

To answer your question, you need to understand the position of an associate. If a high ranking member of the family were planning to take out the leader, I highly doubt an associate would be trusted with such information. In our society, an associate is basically a tool. They run errands for higher ranking members of the society.

If an associate were to overhear a plot to take over, they had better have damn good evidence of the plan if they wish to warn the leader. If not, they will most likely end up dead.

A associate has not made the sworen oath like the Made Man... but he has signed the rules and must follow the top leader, there are also other members in his association that he can seek guidance and explain his issue. But seriously, none of my bloodline has ever witnessed such a situation. If this ever occurs however, i have little doubt that the Godfather/Godmother would endure it. In the end, the truth always comes out, that i have witnessed and can conclude.

Associates to a family are viewed in a different way to the family itself. Of course the associate should tell the boss if he finds this stuff out, just like a Made Man should. The only difference is that a Made Man has a blood oath sworn to the leader of that family and should be more aware of family business and goals.

I have to be honest here and say that in the scenario you have presented the Crewleader has made a very poor decision in his choice of Right Hand man if the Right Hand is thinking to lead a mutiny rather than just talking to the Leader in the first place. Every member of the crew and family should be one hundred percent loyal to the Crewleader and the Crewleader alone, regardless of poor decisions. When they signed up to be with him they made an oath to be loyal, and they should honour that oath 'til death.

Thank you gentlemen for your valuable views and for aiding in clearing some of the confusion in my mind about the importance of being a Made Man.Thank You one and all

"Thank You for your opinions,esteemed gentlemen but my basic question was 'Is there supposed to be a difference between an associate and a Made Man in such a situation'.I have understood what a Made Man is expected to do, thanks to you gentlemen but what about an associate?"

A reply to your question would simply be an associate has no rights to discuss or argue with his leader, he isn't just a mere associate after-all not a main part of the family as a button man is.

Turi listens to this person as the questions are asked and then some people respond. He feels that he should put in his two cents.

"Well I'm only an earner in my family but my bloodline has been around a while and I think these are very interesting questions. Well no matter what your rank, if you join a family you are making a blood oath. Yes, being a made man is making a even bigger commitment. But in the case of your boss making an idiotic plan and this will cause your families downfall. I believe that if the RHM is going to take over behind the bosses back with the best intentions of the family and city you should back him up. Because the situation you are describing sounds to me as if the CL is going rouge without the GF's permission. But always make your choice depending on your own beliefs and what the situation is. But always know that joining a family is for life. There is no leaving unless you have the blessing of your CL and GF. But in my opinion you should always respect those who have earned it. I know some people may disagree with something I have said but this is just my opinion and I will agree with other things people have said. This is a very interesting topic and one that is visited upon every once and a while." Turi lights a cigar to hear what other responses people may have.

The blood oath is just that;  A made man goes down with the ship.  Blind and unquestioning loyalty to his leader is paramount.  Without it, being "made" means nothing.

As far as associates go, I guess that there is a little more leeway.  If his or her boss initiates this said "idiotic act," an associate would not necessarily even be involved, since they are not part of the trusted inner circle.  In times or war, associates are generally overlooked, anyway, so it's not unthinkable for them to simply lay low and find work elsewhere once the smoke has cleared.

G eases his way to the front of the crowd to join the debate.

An interesting question indeed. My bloodline hasn't been in this way of life that long, but in my opinion. If I was a "made" and heard that the RH was planning to take down the CL, I would act in defense of my CL as they are the one that has given me protection and put their neck on the line for me. The least I could do is the same back regardless of whether their decision was right or wrong. I know in this life we lead I will end up dead at some point and I would rather that be loyal with my head held high.

Which brings me on to being an associate in the same position. I would gather as much evidence as possible and present it to my CL. Yes I wouldn't have been trusted in the family circle at that point but isn't that the kind of act that would show where your loyalties lie? Mr Costanza said that it is not unthinkable for an associate to jump ship once the smoke has cleared. I think it is disrespect to your fallen CL and crew. We all have joined "this thing of ours" signing rules in that crew and being protected by that crew the least we can do is show some loyalty and respect to that crew by standing up for what the crew believes in.

G feels a bit of jaw ache after his little speech and flips out a cigar and places it between his lips before lighting up and waiting for the next person to have their say.

It's difficult to generalize.  If the said CL's "idiotic plan" were to, say, take out his or her godfather/mother, then the age-old question of where your loyalties really lie comes into play.  But for any such plan, associates would probably be left out.  Especially if their skills make them useless.

I'm a loyal man.  I believe in going down with the ship.  But, as I've also said, since associates are usually left alive during most wars, it's possible--and usually not looked down upon--for them to survive a war and take refuge elsewhere. But again, it's difficult to generalize.  These hypotheticals would have to be a lot more specific to have a sound argument in either direction.

Very interesting speech, sounds extremely familiar to me - wonder why that is?

Alessandro laughs
Probably because it has been discussed before in the streets, AngeliqueSatanta.
Shrugs

I think what AngeliqueSatanta means is this is very similar to O_Banion's earlier discussion on the importance of being a Made Man in this Thing of Ours, as well as the difference in being an Associate.

Robert hands Alessandro-Dionisio a copy of the earlier speech

Certainly, this topic will be discussed again and again. However the rapidity of it being brought up so soon after another one similar in content is interesting.