I used to think the golden rule was - treat yourself the way you think others should treat you.  But soon learned, the hard way, that the REAL golden rule is "treat others they way you'd like to be treated." 

Hmmm...interesting, isn't it? 

Somewhere along the line, we've lost sight of the rule.  And certainly, there will be plenty of people out there that don't think this rule applies to this life we've chosen.  But I think it does apply in every life you choose, and I'm tired of seeing people treat other people like shit because they can, or because they think they should be allowed to by virtue of the fact that they've been here in the streets for longer and stood outside more post offices. 

But I suppose it's an interesting question for debate.  Should mobsters follow the golden rule?  I'm curious to know what you think. 

Obviously, I've expressed my opinion.  But let me offer you a hypothetical.

Fresh off the boat, a young man (or woman) comes to the streets and wanders around for a bit.  Then pronounces that he's available to work for a family, and will work hard. 

Now, instead of applauding this man for showing some initiative and for a willingness to work hard, or guiding him to find the proper channels by which to make such a request, many people decide (because they've been here two days and are now very powerful gangsters in this world) to publicly humiliate this man for their entertainment. 

Does that seem right to you?  I'm curious to know how far our moral compass has shifted.  You know as well as I do for as many people that offer this man some good advice, there is another putting him down, humiliating him, and making him think twice about his decision to come to this world. 

Are we simply not as "tough" as we need to be if we follow this golden rule? 

I think a willingness to follow this golden rule evidences some qualities that we all desire - respect, honor, integrity.  Who among you does not think these qualities are important?  Yet, many of those who think those qualities are important don't think it's important to treat others the way you'd like to be treated.

Let me just say this - as my opinion - the fact that you outrank me isn't what makes you worthy of respect.  It's what you do with that title that makes you worthy.  It's those qualities - respect, honor, integrity - that make you worthy. 

So, tell me what you think.

Hal I must say that I 100% agree with you. Yes your rank is a worthy note, but is it not how you treat others as well. I personally am and have always been one to try to help someone out. Misery steps out from behind a tall man where she can be seen and not just heard.

Now yes I might not be the toughest of all the mobsters out there, but is that all we are ment to be? Rough, tough and don't help others around. Then once we see someone trying who might need a bit of help just shove them down and ridicule them just because we can?

I see this a lot and way to often. If we take those willing to learn and work hard and teach them versus putting them down for our own enjoyment.. won't we all benifit from this greater?

Just my thinking.. She shrugs and slips back into the crowd.

I agree with both of you up to a point.

new people fresh off the boat should be guided by their scl and their sponsor. However if they then choose to ignore this advice then they are going to be ridiculed and put down. But if a valid point or an opinion is expressed then that opinion should be respected and if necessary debated. If their belief/opinion is flawed then that flaw should be exposed by facts not ridicule.

In response to your statement:

Let me just say this - as my opinion - the fact that you outrank me isn't what makes you worthy of respect. It's what you do with that title that makes you worthy. It's those qualities - respect, honor, integrity - that make you worthy.

I must agree, but to take it one step further I'd like to present that the measure of a man is not in how his superiors see and rate him, but how his subordinates and the people in his charge regard and respect him. This isn't to say that we must be coddlers and hand-holders, but if someone you have direct influence over and any modicum of authority looks to you with respect and admiration for your position, then its a far greater personal reward than how those who sit lofty and high looking down perceive you.

"I'm curious to know how far our moral compass has shifted"

Moral compass? My dear friend, let me tell you a story. Two weeks ago, an old childhood friend asked me for a loan of $400 to buy his daughter a doll's house for her birthday. He knew the business I was in, he knew I could provide the money. He didn't pay me back, so I battered his leg with a metal pipe until his femur and kneecap were completely shattered. He will never walk again.

He worked on the docks too, so I just ruined a guy's life for $400. $400 he wanted to cheer up his miserable daughter for christ's sake. I did it because I'm not a nice man.I did it because I protect my interests fiercly. And another tragedy? I can talk about this shit publicly because the cops are in my back pocket, darling. I am happy to corrupt once upstanding and honest law enforcement officals.

And you want to talk to me about a moral compass because I don't invite timmy the hood to my lavish party nights?

This thing is about power, make no mistake. Respect, honour - even loyalty, are often discarded for the neverending pursuit of power and profit. Sure, I will respect those that will chop my daffodil off if I don't. I am and will remain an honourable man; and I will always have loyalty. That is the least that is expected of a man in my position though. Sure, I may have the clout to insult your random thug, or even most other folk who walk these streets, but I probably wouldn't. It's just not good for business because others will look at me in a different light, and if I'm respected less, I have less power to wield; so interestingly, ostentatious displays of power can often lead to the loss of power.

However, for generic guy A, the most power he will ever see is to oppress those below him - regardless of how salient their observations are. Why is there a problem with this? Our thing is based entirely on a pyramid like hierarchical structure. Shit flows downhill, respect flows up hill. That is, and should always remain, the way things are done.

As an addition to the fine gentleman's reply, Robert nods to Mercury, I would like to point out we are not knights but criminals. I choose Knights as an example as it is often used as a standard of all those qualities you have mentioned, Mr. Jordan. Even if the real-life counterparts were the exact opposite in most cases.

As organized criminals, the world operates under different rules. A common civilian has his set and we have ours. He or she will uphold the values that establish his or her world, those of justice, order, and laws. We on the other hand operate under different values all together.

I mean, imagine one of us talking about justice or laws? That is talk I will hear from a cop!

For my part, I would never savagely attack someone publicly or privately of a lower rank than me just because I could or that I wished to lord over another but to educate. Sometimes the burned hand learns best.

there is a medley of contrasting personalities that roam our streets committing crimes, I have no qualms with your wish to caress the rotten hands of thugs. yet, you are in no position to judge or to criticise others behaviour, especially those who tower above you. our world is full of diversity.
I suggest you step back and take a breath for an instant and consider the business you are tangled in; our life is an unalterable, permanent, murderous struggle for power.
Mercury has made some valid points.

Hal, I have to disagree with you if I follow the example provided. If we talk about people making speeches presenting debates but from a somewhat informed perspective, then I would.

I don't think it's smart that a civilian stands in the middle of the street saying "I wanna be a criminal, please hire me". For several reasons. First, it's lazy. That person should be approaching the people capable of hiring him directly. And if you answer that he doesn't know how to choose, then it ties with the second reason: inability to man up and make a decision.

No crew out there is so bad that joining them is a bad decision. Sure, there may be better fits than others but no matter what crew he ends up in he'll learn the basics. So he should be approaching leaders, not just call out people and shout he's available for hire.

Some people will humiliate a young thug who knows no better simply to make themselves appear tough.  Picking on the weak does not make you look tough, and these people are always spotted.  Me, I will harshly abuse anyone, no matter their standing, but they must earn it.  Earning it takes more than saying something naive.  Those naive people I will ignore.  However, if their ignorance is offensive or disrespectful, they best run for cover, because I will hold back nothing.

As far as the Golden Rule, I think you have it all wrong, my friend.  Your Golden Rule applies in other circles.  In Cosa Nostra, our Golden Rule is "Do Unto Others Before They Do Unto You", and it is a rule I always follow.

that's my apingen ,Respect is earned not giving no matter what rank or position you have or are have.Most of you might not have earned now or before , you might have it because favoritism with in your family.But it might have being easy to get were you are not but it easier to lose it then to gain a high position or rank.

Mr Jordan. I agree with you. To a limit.

Yes, it isn't a pretty sight to watch powerful mobsters rip a Thug to pieces when he comes to the Streets with such a proposition and I do not exactly applaud this. If this person were to be a member of an entirely new bloodline, he would have no journals to fall back on and so he comes to more experienced Mafioso for guidance and insulting him is ,frankly, a waste of time and energy.

However, I must say that I completely disagree with you on this statement- "Let me just say this - as my opinion - the fact that you outrank me
isn't what makes you worthy of respect. It's what you do with that
title that makes you worthy. It's those qualities - respect, honor,
integrity - that make you worthy.". I feel that you are confusing admiration with respect. A high ranker deserves and commands respect just because he is who he is but admiration is an entirely different story, You are at a liberty to admire a man for the before mentioned qualities but you respect him no matter what if he is high ranked.