Because each individual should earn their own respect.

Realising his answer could be misinterpreted he decides to add further.

I should clarify. If a leader decides to give the individual special treatment, that's entirely down to the leader. The individual should not expect it or ask for it.

Don_G is making specific reference to someone aiding a particular family greatly, and the child of that person then entering the same family once the parent is deceased. Yes, that child must earn respect themselves, but some leaders are far more likely to trust a child of a solidly-trustworthy parent, than a person already in the family that may not have made that same connection with the leader. Indeed, as Tyrion said (as have many others in the past) - it is up to each leader to evaluate each individual member's worth, and treat any member's offspring accordingly.

In my opinion, the main problem occurs when a child approaches a leader in a completely different family, and attempts to sell themselves from their role in a different family. Sure, your parents may have been awesome over there, and they might've walked amongst rose petals, but in the new family the leader wouldn't know you from Jack. Or Jill.

sneakyrat finds this topic interesting and speaks out his mind...

Well, as much as i understand the questioning crossing someones mind when a leader ask's him about his bloodline. But the reason behind his questioning is'nt always what it seems. Let me explain... now, i am not going to talk about the other hand man or their CL's for that matter, but only from my point of view of things. I am one of those who would probably ask about a fresh of the boater's father or mother... why? Because i feel that it is important to know who they were. It is important to know where they were from and what happened with their lives. But i never go any farther back in their bloodlines... it is not necessary. And the reason why i do this is because i like to know if the person has learned from the mistake his/her father/mother has made... if the result of their death came from their mistake that is!

And second, i like to know if that person is honest enough to mention it. It is important that we put the past behind us, so if i feel that the person's past is still haunting him, i would tend to want to help him solve his own issues. The reason for my line of questioning is to know how to help a newly associate, not to judge him/her from issues that rescently occured. Special treatment has absolutely nothing to do with this. The person has to prove himself to -Lana-, what he/she does within the family is the important thing. I will recommend him/her to -Lana- only if he/she does outstanding work... for this, i dont care who her/his father/mother was! I care only who he/she IS!

But as for the ancestors, frankly... i dont care if one of his bloodline was a godfather/mother. I highly respect what this godfather/godmother has done in the past... but... the past is the past. Everyone does mistakes... and god knows that my bloodline has made quite a few... but i am proud to say that i have learned from every one of these mistakes, i was well raised. And i am happy with what i am today!

I'm not so sure about that Tyrion.

Whilst I agree that if some idiot from New Orleans died in the War of the Stupids and then came to New York and expected a handout, this would clearly be ridiculous behaviour, in some circumstances, I'm not so sure.

Part of our thing is looking after friends of ours. If someone dies for the family, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect their next of kin is compensated, nor for that kin to be expecting some support from the bosses their dear old Dad snuffed one for. Whilst it is all well and good to say, judge each man on his merits, that isn't really what we're all about. We're about cutting corners and looking after our own. Don Jnr, who's father served the family with skill, would be far more likely to be helped out than Billy Nobody - with good reason in my eyes.

(I can't really be much clearer in character. If my son was suddenly a mobster and I died serving the family, surely my friends and bosses would look to that son (assuming I died doing the right thing for the family) and take care of him. I don't think this is a stretch of the imagination, in fact I think it is very likely to happen. This is why direct lineage is dangerous, as to become a Made Man traditionally you had to be able to trace your ancestry back to the old country anyway. The concept of just having the same people over and over is tedious from a game perspective, but in a realism sense, very likely to occur)

~G~warble.

Ok we are dealing with two scenarios.

Mine was the simple idea of a mobster arriving fresh from the boat and throwing a family name around to try and get perks. That, I am whole heartedly against.

Your scenario and the scenario raised by one or two others, is of a direct descendant of a recently fallen mobster, approaching the family his father just died for and asking to be recognised for his father's devotion and ultimate sacrifice. That is an entirely different situation. In a case like that there is every reason to acknowledge the fallen and to take care of the next of kin.

I think Mr.Gwarble points out the duality of lineage here. There is a fast track so to speak and lineage does matter in that sense. For instance, Mr.Gwarble's son would hardly have to be a jr, yet, he would not have to come to the streets to announce his lineage either. It is a well established pattern not unlike royalty. You don't pick the new prince from the peasants after all. Perhaps there are even loyal peasants, who follow generation after generation. I am not either of these.

I do respectfully disagree that the majority of the incognito are hiding from their own unremarkable past. About the only action I could think of that would cause that is some sort of mass HQ murder. I think most cases are like my own. Each generation looks for his own place in the puzzle. It helps me become who I am instead of a reincarnation of who he was.

SilentEddie you say not every man is a copy of those before him, I assume you mean they won't be like their parent?

If this is the case then 9 times out of 10 I would disagree with you. It is common within this thing of ours for someone to inherit their parents personality. It's quite rare that you will find a descendant act in a different manner or have different friends/enemies. Sometimes you will have people who like to be incognito and try to stay under the radar for as long as possible but fail miserably due to them outting themselves usually. Either way, they tend to be exactly like their parents and stay in the same circle of friends.

However, asking someone for their lineage isn't a practise of mine, although admitedly from time to time I do get curious, not out of fear but for the simple reason that maybe in past times my own parents could have worked with the parents of this mafioso, so it can be positive to have a talk over what old times were like and it can also strengthen the rapport you may have with this mafioso. However, if this person were to tell me they didn't want to reveal their parents name I would never press the matter, nor would I hold this against them when it came to giving them their button. I would judge them on their own achievements, not their parents.

At the end of the day, the population within this thing of ours isn't vast and so I can understand why people may want to ask such questions as "who were your parents?" Although I agree they can hinder a relationship with a new member, I can understand that given that their are a number of bloodlines who like to stir things up and generally fuck up a lot, some leaders would rather try and find out a mafioso's lineage to avoid recruiting such a person.

If a leader decides to give the individual special treatment, that's entirely down to the leader. The individual should not expect it or ask for it.
Reply by: Tyrion at Apr 07, '10 10:09

I have to agree with that 110%. I agree with what many people are saying here. I haven't listened to everyone and what they have said because I simply don't have time to. I am a Wise Guy looking to make my way in the world and don't have the time to be listening to everyone.

Like I said I agree with Tyrion on what was said there 110%. Majority of the time leaders don't 'need' to ask peoples bloodline. Sometimes its common knowledge to know who's son/daughter is who's. I know a lot of peoples without needing to ask them.

Some leaders will give people these 'special rights' because of their bloodline. This happens from time to time and that's up to the leader. I can safely say that one of my bloodline was a Godfather. Not the best one at that I admit and I am proud to admit he wasn't the best and some of his techniques in how he ran things I do strongly now think to myself.. 'What the heck was he thinking/doing' That is the way we grow and learn.

Now.. I will say that I personally NEVER expect this 'special treatment' and nor do I EVER demand this 'special treatment' because of my bloodline. I like to build on my own as a different person each time and I try to do things differently each time. And onto the main subject well...

If a leader wants to ask for peoples bloodlines and then judge them on that then that's up to them. Some leaders are like that and there are many reasons why some are like that. I would name a few but I don't want to sound like I'm singling anyone out.

I on the other hand certainly am not one of them. Many of you will know that from the one major thing my 'Godfather' Ancestor did for a very big judged character in our world who now sits in our ranks being able to rank up without being killed every time he hits Gangster.

I don't have barely any enemies in this world of ours because even if my ancestors were to be screwed over by someone... I still treat their next of kin totally different. Judging people because of their ancestry doesn't come into the way ANY of my bloodline works and it will stay like that for as long as we are around.

Whilst I agree that it's a sad state of affairs if bloodline disclosure, or lack of it, is the be all and end all with regards to a successful run in a family, I wouldn't necessarily agree that a good leader never asks questions in this area or doesn't care which bloodlines sit in their HQ. Surely a leader wants to have as much information as they possibly can at their disposal. Note, that is not to say that they'll do anything other than judge that person solely on their current merits within said family.

There are subtle differences in the approaches a leader can take. I don't see that asking the question - in the right way - is a bad thing. That is, as long as that leader has the capacity to accept someone not wishing to disclose it or, more accurately, the capacity to accept someone that replies, "No, my father wasn't in this line of work...". A leader with an ounce of savvy will realise that wishing to 'keep quiet', so to speak, doesn't necessarily mean there's anything to hide and in most cases, it doesn't. However, for something like ours that is linked to bloodline and kin, I don't see anything massively wrong with a leader asking, "Were your forefathers in this line of work?", or something to that effect. As I say, as long as they have the capacity to accept the mobsters retort. To me, it gives a mobster a route out if they do want it and means a leader's not leaning solely on the answer.

The problems arise when you get leaders that don't have this capacity and base all of their judgements, opinions and decisions on the bloodline they're dealing with. As others have said, even in cases where people think they have reason to hide a bloodline, they generally don't need to because most leaders will still give them a chance to blossom in their own right. Yes, you doubtless get idiots who demand to know someone's history before deciding whether to let them set foot in the HQ, and if this is their ONLY criteria then they're twats. However, I don't think this issue is important enough for us to be calling anyone who asks, a bad leader, and anyone who doesn't care which bloodlines are in their family, a good leader.

To me, the problem isn't the question itself or the degrees to which you can vary when asking, the problem is the leader's approach to the question and use of the answer.