I have long believed that having more than one Godfather per city is simply wrong. Its not realistic. It devalues the rank and loses most of the significance it used to have. Talking to people across the game over the last couple of outings I've had here, I'm far from alone in this feeling.

I have no problem with the idea of districts or district heads, I just don't believe they should all be Godfathers. I think a more realistic approach would be to have one Godfather in a city and the other districts each be lead by a 'Captain'.

I would suggest that a simple superficial change could help. Without having to adjust the mechanics of the game at all, I would suggest just changing the normal Godfather rank to 'Captain' and the Godfather Chairman position simply be Godfather. The Captain's crews could be the same as the current Godfathers ones are now and the same with the Chairman role. Just different labels.

The only implementation issue I can see revolves around the 'taking Godfather' RP and irc event. That would need to be adjusted. Other than that, I can't see many problems getting this done if enough people support the change toward more realism and a greater sense importance to the Godfather rank.

I agree.

The Godfather Chairman in each city has "Godfather - Chairman" in their profile. Would it be possible to have the other Godfathers in the city have "Godfather - Captain" in their profiles? Would it be difficult to add in a feature that only the Godfather Chairman has the ability to switch captain on and off? This would really give the users the ability to control their city and let others know what the city structure is like - if it's a unified city or if the districts work independently from each other. This also might help take away any confusion of why are there so many Godfathers.

The idea was to get rid of so many Godfathers not add even more unrealistic suffixes. To have just one Godfather per city.

The entire mechanics of the current system could stay exactly as they are. Simply remove the additional 'Chairman' title from the central Godfather and change the other district's Godfather title to something else. I suggested Captain simply because it is a correct term for that role in the mob and the other well used term 'Underboss' would cause some confusion with the already existing rank of Boss. Absolutely nothing need change except those titles and maybe a few words of RP in the lesser position's GF takeover event.

I like the idea of just having one Godfather per city, as it was long ago. Also, as Squishy has put it, it's our job as players to make that happen. Disorder , I see where you're coming from, removing the 'Chairman' from the rank itself of 'Godfather'. However, they haven't even set up a 'Godmother' for our female counterparts who achieve the rank. 

So, while I agree with you, the only way we can achieve it is via The Streets/RP/our words and those who are in power, making the adjustments to enact this change of one Godfather/Godmother per city.

Players can enforce one GF per city but then a lot of game mechanics are ignored. I think having a head to each district is a nice idea, I wouldn't want to see that ignored by enforcing a rule that would mean players couldn't take full advantage of the GF system there. It just needs another title.

Player enforced rules are fine but when one set of players die, the rules they enforced do too. If those rules meant ignoring very real advantages, they would be a certainty to get abolished at the first opportunity. This is why OI suggested a wording change, nothing more. As it would endure past the end of any regime and return the game to some sense of balance in terms of just having on person holding the GF rank in each city.

 However, they haven't even set up a 'Godmother' for our female counterparts who achieve the rank. 

That's a completely different discussion. it has absolutely nothing to do with this. If you are referring to the change in title then 'they' have changed the ranks as 'they' changed it from Godfather to Godfather - Chairman in the first place. Whether or not there should be an introduction of gender in the rank is a debate that has been and gone a long time ago. 

I don't believe "Godfather" has anything to do with the mafia at all, outside of Mario Puzo's nickname for a couple characters- which would lead me to anything that supports its minimal usage. (My understanding is that in Part 1 Vito is the Godfather, based on the fact that Johnny Fontane is his godson, whereas Michael literally becomes a/the Godfather at the end of Part 1 during the christening ceremony of Connie's baby, due to the baptismal vows to serve as godfather and his simultaneous  executions of his rivals. ((It's been a while since I rewatched)). In other words, the title "Godfather" means absolutely nothing in the context of the mafia outside of these two particular characters from the novels/films, but in our parlance and pop culture it means the individual on top of the pile who other people look to with respect.

So I understand the desire to see a name change. However, if the leaders of two districts are subordinate to the leader in the central district, then they're not all truly at the top of the pile.

However, it's theoretically possible that we could see multiple districts that are not unified under a single person, but functioning as 3 distinct operations. In that case, "Godfather" would be a correct term to apply to district leaders.

I propose the following:

- When the first CL in a city hits Godfather, they choose between being labeled as "Godfather-Chairman" or "Godfather".

- If a "Godfather-Chairman" exists in a city, any subsequent people who hit GF in other districts become "Underboss" (or Captain... but I do like Underboss more.) So Godfather-Chairman = automatic Underbosses.

- If the first CL in a city hits Godfather and chooses to be known as simply "Godfather", then the leaders of other districts would also automatically be known as "Godfather" when they hit the rank.

Basically, the titles of the other two district leaders are automatically determined by the choice of the first CL to hit GF rank. Godfather-Chairman asserts control of the whole city and would have Underbosses in the other districts, whereas "Godfather" signifies the district leader, who would potentially be flanked by other Godfathers. (Also, if a GFC died an Underboss could challenge for the Godfather spot as if they were the first.)

I would prefer to see one GF per city also, the perks of taking that role though heavily outweigh the idea behind not taking it. A title change would be a good way to go with it I think.

I quite like Kathryn's idea around the name changes, though would it need lots of coding around it? Will there still be an option to take GFC? If not, what happens when the first GF dies, or retires, can the others not take GFC?

6 godfathers are too much anytime? I wouldn't agree... We saw it in the past, when there are too many, the number is reduced. But if you don't have guidance from above, in your city, you err. As the rules are set for CL's they should be for GF imo. But only GFs could judge GFs right?

I quite like Kathryn's idea around the name changes, though would it need lots of coding around it? Will there still be an option to take GFC? If not, what happens when the first GF dies, or retires, can the others not take GFC?

No clue on the coding. I don't know how hard it is to change rank manually, but I'd have to think (other than the recent week of multiple Godfathers" that it would be a relatively rare occurrence.

 In my idea, which I'm sure isn't perfect, I'd say that GFC would stick around for those who would have "Underbosses" (as opposed to the independent districts, where each would be "Godfather"). If the GFC died, an Underboss with the needed experience could challenge for the rank of GFC, in my mind.

We all know who the boss is. Ranks do mean shit. A bonus here and there doesn't mean shit. You kill em all you get it all (on the conscience) Just my opinion.

I can't see the need for this. At best it's a cosmetic change; one which does nothing for the playing of the game. Having more than one "Godfather" allows for more people to realise their ultimate goal in this thing of ours, which is no bad thing IMO.

If it ain't broke...

It's entirely a cosmetic change. By design. It's intended to assist with the RP aspects of the game without hurting the mechanics of it. 

As players it's easy to enforce a "1 GF per city" rule (once you have control). This makes the rarity of the rank and the RP side of things a little more realistic (6 is still far from realistic, but it's getting closer). By doing so, the mechanics around taxes are dropped completely (an unintended victim) and stat boosts are prevented (that's a benefit for those in power for sure, but again a slightly unwanted one or they'd simply have prevented the person in question from taking the rank).

Things that are in the players control to control should always avoid admin interference. This isn't one of those things, this aims at taking things a lot further, retaining much of the positives of the mechanics that have been put into the game and simply bumping the realism and roleplaying that we don't have a dozen 'godfathers' wandering the streets at one time. 

You're more than welcome to your opinion on it not being a bad thing, but I wouldn't share it. The rank of Godfather is meaningless at this point in time. How many godfathers over the years can most of us name? For many it'll be 4 or 5, with 3 of those people who happen to be their friends and who'd be complete unknowns to most. Old schoolers still talk at length about accounts like Ganelon, Oberon, Anita or even a more recent Marietta. Those were special accounts that really did something. For 99% of Godfathers, they're instantly forgettable and that's a damn shame.

To many of us, a large many of us, something is very broken there (This isn't negative bitching of an oppressed few by the way, the people I'm talking about have nearly all held the rank at least once, many of them on multiple occasions... which frankly just helps illustrate the problem). People often say the rank doesn't matter or the naming doesn't matter.... on a roleplaying game that's all about rank and title, they really do. If they didn't there wouldn't be opposition to a change of this nature, so it's very much a moot argument.

All of this shouldn't be the case. A godfather should mean something. Not everyone is born to be a good leader. Very few leaders are capable of being great ones. Even great ones shouldn't be able to stroll into a Godfather spot without a lot of damn hard work and a little luck and timing.

Raising the bar isn't always a bad thing, sometimes it's a great one.  

"For 99% of Godfathers, they're instantly forgettable..."

I can't really see how a cosmetic change will alter that. If someone is an "instantly forgettable" GF, they're a crap GF and deserve to be forgotten. That's no fault of the cosmetics of the game. Sure, you can dress it up and say it enhances the RP element of the game, but I disagree; how often is the rank of a GF mentioned in the streets or BDs, outside of things like auth threads?

At the end of the day, there is already one central Godfather in each city - everyone who actively plays knows who they are, so changing the name does nothing except make it more difficult for people to achieve the title every mobster wants.

"Even great ones shouldn't be able to stroll into a Godfather spot without a lot of damn hard work and a little luck and timing."

I've never been a GF. How about you Tsu? I can name a dozen great players who haven't been GF, so I can't see how you can say the rank is handed out easily and without effort. Sure, we may see the same faces appearing in the GF role, but perhaps that's because they work hard, speak to the right people and know how to better their chances?

At the end of the day, I've sat and listened to this for a few days now, waiting for a good reason to implement it, but one has yet to appear. Saying a cosmetic change hinders your enjoyment of the game is utter garbage, I think we can both agree on that.

I can't really see how a cosmetic change will alter that. If someone is an "instantly forgettable" GF, they're a crap GF and deserve to be forgotten. That's no fault of the cosmetics of the game.

The whole point of this suggestion is to avoid someone like that get getting the rank to begin with. 

Sure, you can dress it up and say it enhances the RP element of the game, but I disagree; how often is the rank of a GF mentioned in the streets or BDs, outside of things like auth threads?

Daily. Visit any of the active discussions at the moment and they're all referencing the Godfathers making important decisions at the moment. 

At the end of the day, there is already one central Godfather in each city - everyone who actively plays knows who they are, so changing the name does nothing except make it more difficult for people to achieve the title every mobster wants.

Yes. That's exactly what this suggestion does. And why I think it's a great thing. 

I've never been a GF. How about you Tsu?

Yes.

Sure, we may see the same faces appearing in the GF role, but perhaps that's because they work hard, speak to the right people and know how to better their chances?

They're mostly the ones asking for this change. So yes, they do all of those things... but they also know it's far easier than it should be and want to see it made more difficult. 

At the end of the day, I've sat and listened to this for a few days now, waiting for a good reason to implement it, but one has yet to appear. Saying a cosmetic change hinders your enjoyment of the game is utter garbage, I think we can both agree on that.

I disagree completely. Cosmetic changes alter roleplay, significantly. A lot of people may not care about it, but on a roleplaying game I really couldn't care less about their views. If you're someone that doesn't care about the cosmetics? Great. You won't mind the change. If you do care about them, then the only thing that's different is you want GF to be easier and available to far more people. That's a perfectly valid point of view and you're welcome to it, but I don't share it. 

So the idea posed by Disorder was to only have one Godfather per city, which in my opinion isn't a bad suggestion.

Changing the rank of some Godfathers to Captain would be an accurate change to reflect the way things were ran, to some extent.  Godfathers were not limited to "Cities" as they were to family really.  You could have a Godfather of a family run in conjunction with other Godfathers from the same city, but typically they would either relinquish or lose control of areas.  

Maybe an alternative option would be to go back to larger crew HQs with real structured sub crews.  This would probably change a lot of code making it more difficult for the programming team, but if you're looking for realism, this may be accurate.  But also remember that Capo, Caporegime, does mean Captain.  

That's my two cents, appraised at 0.5 cents.

Returning to this game after more than a year i found it rather confusing seeing so many Godfathers i completely agree that this does take away from the significance of the role itself