So, following our latest chats with city hall, it looks like everything is now in place. We now command each and every aspect of our eight cities, from the corner shops to the FBI.

We no longer need to live in fear of adverse attention. We can do what we please, how we please, as we please. We can aim to grow and bloom without fear of the attention caused having impacts on our business. We have full control.

As a result, we will no longer be monitoring or restricting how families operate with outsiders. If someone is fresh off the boat, you can see if you might be able to twist their arm into joining this thing of ours. Hell, you can do what you want. If you want to give them a song and dance with a grand finale of stuffing promotional leaflets down their throat about the five year projections for your family, the authorities that be will turn a blind eye to it.

As it no longer impacts on my own business operations, I will no longer care how your family chooses to operate. You are free from the previous shackles of accepted behaviour and can operate in a manner which you personally feel is befitting of you, your family and your city.

http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/94356

Cough, splutter, grrrrrrrr.

Deimne points in the direction of OOC Avenue he intended to earlier.

This complete control has been a long time coming and it cost alot of work and alot of lives. It's nice to be able to openly recruit however, just as a word of advice to those who are new on these shores, it will still get you much further much faster if you send a good request for an invitation to join a crew. This new way of recruitment may get you into a crew easily but taking the easy way has never earned anyone their button. Remember you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Kilroy I cannot every agree with what you just said.

"It cost alot of work and alot of lives."

The only work lost was by those too lazy to poke a head up, have a sniff and realise which way the wind blew. It's rammed down your throat by city hall that getting a sponsor is important. Every leaflet in their help section tells you how. Hell, they tell you exactly how if you look carefully enough. It takes 30 minutes work to read those and write out a decent request.

It cost alot of lives. I refer you to my previous point and add that those who died deserved to die. They obviously did not have the brains to succeed in this thing of ours. If they cannot write a simple letter to a family head then they obviously were not going to be quite sharp enough to do much else in this world.

The job of educators is not ours. It is not our obligation to give our time up to those fresh off the boat. Thats the job of city hall and they obviously have not been able to do it. As such. It's been pushed back towards those who walk our streets doing other things. Instead of looking after family members who took the time to mail them the leaders and their associates are going to be a creche to those who did not. As such the people who got off their arses, did something for themselves and found protection will have less time given to them by their leaders.

I just don't think it's right that leaders should have rules taken from their hands or 'else'. Negotiate yes. Find a solution together. Everyone understands that taxes have to be paid and that city hall doesn't have a money tree. But life here has to be good or members of the community that have been here longer than any new recruit will begin to leave. Then who teaches the new blood?

It's a long slippery slope this member whoring business. Mark my words..

Crackerjack Coalition is open for business

I think he meant the work and loss of life in the development and implimentation of the rule (RIP).

The job of educators is not ours. It is not our obligation to give our time up to those fresh off the boat. Thats the job of city hall and they obviously have not been able to do it. As such.

Actually, it is our responsibility as a mobster to give up our time to educate those fresh off the boat and in our crews on the ways of the world. It's not our job to hold their hands until they've at least made Made Man, but it is our job to make sure the people we have employed have the knowledge to succeed and not make stupid mistakes to potentially get our crew killed.

That was the whole point of building Universities, and appointing members to head up training sessions to give legitimate new players information on how to make it in this life. It's up to us as individuals and leaders to make sure that our people stay in line and have the right information from ranked mobsters who've already been in those same shoes the new person is now in.

I understand that the initial reply, was mainly meant for people who haven't found a crew yet. However, it's not totally accurate to say that's it's not our job to be educators as i'm talking mostly about once they've become sponsored.

I can't say I agree totally with removing any systems that were in place to stop member whoring. Things possibly could've been fixed if Deimne bumped up the initial speech and reconfirmed that if a person is genuinely trying to help someone new that there would be no repercussions. Alas, a decision has been made and now we must move forward.

There is definitely quite a bit of literature given to those fresh off the boat, as Scandia has already pointed out. If people don't take the time to read this then it falls directly on them and they should then suffer the consequences ultimately. I don't think that overwhelming new people with tons of mail is going to fix the issue at all.

Actually, it is our responsibility as a mobster to give up our time to educate those fresh off the boat and in our crews on the ways of the world.

It is not our responsibility in the slightest to educate those off those off the boat. My responsibilities are twofold. My city, and profit. If educating new blood can significantly aid either of those two; sure I'll make it my responsibility, but to suggest education for it's own sake is the responsibility of the most powerful criminals in this country is folly.

I think the job of education falls to those who choose to take them on as associates, I imagine if you want to police member whoring within your city/family the easiest way is to only allow certain people to take on associates and then check with the associate how much contact they have had with their sponsor.

I'm basically saying that there should be people in the crews to help teach new members.

You're a crewleader/RH/LH? You have the job when you're choosing your upper structure to appoint someone to that spot.

You're a sponsor already, or you're the person who is appointed to the aforementioned position? Then you should help guide these people.


You say it's no ones job, Mercury? If we fail to guide the people we take into our crew or city there is ninety nine percent chance that someone will fuck up and say 'oops, no one told me'. Enough of said fuck ups from any city and i'm sure the other cities would grow tired and get rid of them.

"You say it's no ones job, Mercury? If we fail to guide the people we take into our crew or city there is ninety nine percent chance that someone will fuck up and say 'oops, no one told me'. Enough of said fuck ups from any city and i'm sure the other cities would grow tired and get rid of them."

This is the vital point. With member whoring that is open to happen. People refuse to use their own brain to find a crew of their own and as such don't use their brain when a family whores them and have an 'oops' moment. When you selectively recruit you get to know a member instead of just sending him or her an invite. You get a feel of what they are all about, how well they know the streets and if they are a bit of a loose cannon. If I were to die because I had to recruit retards to retain them on these shores i'd be more than a little pissed off. Yes, They are in my family and I should train them but some people are just 'untrainable' and trigger happy/have big mouths.

Also why should ANY family member have to go down to the docks and help new people off the boat.?Would their time not be better spent making money for their families? If such a person then goes to help someone but they join another family would s/he be entitled to be a bit pissed off and feel a bit used? In such a case would he/she be within his/her rights to lambast the person and possibly cause them to leave our shores? (Extreme but valid point in my opinion) A sponsor is the approached not vice versa and it makes me feel quite ill when Bold/Italic and high ranking members of ths community or made to go on a bended knee to a civilian just in case he turns round and gets back on the boat. We are already having major issues with where the lines of respect are drawn. This just further lowers them.

"Also why should ANY family member have to go down to the docks and help new people off the boat.?"

Well, does your crew have room for more people? Then why not take a look around to see if you happen to bump into somebody that could be a good addition to your crew? If you happen to take as an associate somebody that will be proficient and a good earner, then that was time well spent.

Indeed. It would be if you wish to do it and highly rewarding. I do know because generations ago I did it for quite some time. It shouldn't be something that someone is appointed to as a job though and thats how I read the comment that was given. It should not be a mandatory position is what I am getting at.

I didn't say it should be mandatory, but if you want the people who are in your crews to be trained to know the difference between say, a sponsored inactive gangster and an unsponsored inactive gangster(just throwing that out as a quick example) then it would probably be wise to have someone available to answer these types of questions. That's basically what the job of a sponsor should be, however it seems that some of the people appointed to sponsorship roles have overlooked that aspect.

I gave those two instances because Mercury said it's not the job of the 'most important people in the country'. Yes a Crewleader is generally a very busy man or woman as are their Right and left hands...so then appoint someone, or a group of people to help guide. They don't have to make this their life to where they can't go on and make money for the family. But if they're available to answer questions should they be asked it would help out the newer people greatly. Post something in the HQ, send a mail out to new gangsters in your crew pointing them in the right direction. (Note, all of these are done AFTER they've accepted an invite to a family). Helping people doesn't just start at them stepping off that boat.

There is a solution to every answer here, we just need to find the right one that will work for the vast majority. But to say that it's not the job of the current population to try and teach new people is just wrong in my opinion.

I just can't see how this world can flourish if we're not helping one another. Major mistakes would be made each day which eventually would result in cities pissed off at each other for their members breaking rules over and over again and eventually it would be a perpetual cycle of warring. I'm sure some people would love to see that, but it's not a stable environment for people to grow and it would get old very quickly.

Also, Scandia you seem to be missing my point here. We make these new people do work to get into our crews then we just let them sit there and expect them to fend for themselves. That doesn't make a good mobster out of anyone. The ranked people go about their day as usual like they're used to(i've done this myself, so please don't mistake my intentions here), while the people who've recently come to work for us just sit there unsure of what to do as the next step.

Sure, they could read the tutorials all day long until their faces turn blue but the fact still remains that there will be questions that only a physical mobster might be able to answer.

We don't necessarily have to go down to the docks and wait in line to pick up each new mobster, but we do need to continue to take care of them once they've found a way into a crew. Ultimately they need to learn how to make money effectively to help protect the upper structures, as well as knowing who they can/can't shoot/pickpocket, etc...so that grave mistakes won't happen as often as they most definitely would if there was no one there to help out as needed. That's the point i'm trying to make here.

This should be interesting, in my half a dozen years here never has this been "allowed" and has always been frowned upon.  Even now it is "allowed", I highly doubt "whoring" will actually be displayed by well respected and honorable leaders.

How can anyone say the new guys shouldn't receive guidance?

You've got to recognise promise. You've got to recognise potential. If you help someone achieve that potential you'll not only have a very useful family member, you'll have a loyalty that'll last generations.

Those who came before me have worked alongside people who have wiped out entire cities and families. Thanks to the guidance and help he provided when they didn't have a penny in their pocket he could have people spared without even a please or thank you. Entire enemy factions wiped out, allies strengthened. And all without a bullet fired in his name. Not a single piece of shit that could stick.

Rather than getting caught up in who you should or shouldn't speak to, maybe its time to think smart. Think long term. However in control you are now, there'll be a time that's tested. If the person doing the testing was the pleb you ignored months ago, well... that would be poetic.

With Chaotic Love,

~TheD

How can anyone say the new guys shouldn't receive guidance?

You've got to recognise promise. You've got to recognise potential. If you help someone achieve that potential you'll not only have a very useful family member, you'll have a loyalty that'll last generations.

[...]

Rather than getting caught up in who you should or shouldn't speak to, maybe its time to think smart. Think long term. However in control you are now, there'll be a time that's tested. If the person doing the testing was the pleb you ignored months ago, well... that would be poetic.

Is anyone really saying that? I feel quite confident in presuming that those who have spoken here, regardless of whether they're saying it is our default responsibility or not, will assist new players if its needed. This debate isn't, or shouldn't be, about new guys receiving guidance. It's about the initial approach. Once someone is in a family, it's a fair bet that - whether requested or not - they will get guidance in some form or another. How good that guidance is depends on the leader and his structure and will always vary. The issue isn't ignoring plebs, as you might say, the issue is whoring plebs.

Well, I say it's an issue, but it's not really....since the stance has now been laid out quite clearly for us by city hall. Despite that, I'll never believe that it makes sense for high ranking members of cosa nostra to be wandering around the docks initiating conversations with randoms. As Deimne pointed out though, seeing as the authorities no longer care, there's little reason for us to worry about anything other than our own family/city. Personally, I'd take quality over quantity any day so I won't get my knickers in a twist too much if I see people working the docks.