Well, as you are all doubtless aware, the latest furore to sweep the Mafia community has been the topic of member whoring and whether we should allow it or not. The most recent development has been the abolition of the "don't-do-it" rule - the decision in question having apparently been made largely based around a conversation with the gods that I seem to have missed.

Not to worry though, I miss quite a few of the major developments these days - nothing new there, so instead of giving up-to-the-minute commentary or pondering (as many others doubtless will) on the rights or wrongs of the rule change, I thought I'd come to the street to outline a couple of basic facts of life that crew leaders and sponsors alike might do well to remember and re-learn in the next few weeks.

On the key matter of "Quantity" Vs "Quality" of crew members, "Quality" wins every time.

Sure, you may now be able to pad your ranks with new, naive members who think that just because you wear a suit you must automatically be the dogs bollocks, but let's all just take a moment and remember what invariably happens when just anyone is inducted into the mob... Stupid shit, that's what happens.

I'll go through the process of what is likely to occur over the next few weeks/months:

• New members arrive and get bombarded by mails from the "member-whoring" crews
• These crews grow quickly as a result
• Some of these new members learn & grow into good mobsters
• These mobsters get to know the families - specifically, they get to know which families are full of people who know the business of being in the mafia (read: the older bloodlines and non-member-whoring families)
• Meanwhile, some overly enthusiastic newbie member who was whored takes a shot or says something they shouldn't
• That newbie's crew leader is taken down in retaliation - everyone in that crew dies
• The sons and daughters of those fallen mobsters take up their parent's mantle and start looking for crews. The ones who's parents learned well know where the good crews are, they therefore ignore the rampant member-whoring and apply to join the classier and non-member-whoring families.
• The classier famillies take on these respectful, more intelligent breed and prosper as a result
• The idiots who's parents didn't learn anything join the next member whoring family who happens to send them an invite
• The process repeats

Quantity of crew members might be nice, but Quality members are worth a hundred idiotic ones. Quality members don't mouth-off to their superiors, they don't take shots in blind anger or out of boredom, they earn more and they stick around to help out in wars and hard times.

Member whoring may now be acceptable and un-punishable, but don't say you weren't warned if you decide to take part in it and find that Quantity isn't as important as you thought it was. You member whore at your own risk.

That will be all.

Prophet stands up from the crows coughs and grumbles before saying, "Alright, fair enough quality is a lot! better then quantity. But there is a flaw in this whole warning, maybe... you could decide to teach the mobster you sponsor? I mean isn't the whole point of sponsoring someone? You take them under your wing, you keep them in line, and make sure they don't shoot someone they not meant to," Another flurry of coughs, "Sorry, I mean if you have fifty mobsters, and trained them up, wouldn't that be a great investment, you'd have fifty strong. Member whoring does have risk, if you dumb with it, but it could offer opportunity if your careful. Anyway I would think it be a good investment to train mobsters in your family that are just starting up, but I guess that's just my opinion." Prophet then sits back down on the stool, that Louis had fetched him.

Marco listens to what has been said and steps forward to say a few words...

"Have to agree with you Fredio, quality for me everytime, i mean whats the point in having 50 members if only say 5 are truelly active and the rest just make up the numbers?. Having spoken with Don Luigi on this subject we are both in agreement that if a new member cant take the time to to send a message asking to be part of our family and telling us what they have to offer then why would we want them anyway?. Even with the new changes we WILL NOT be going to them to try and talk them into our family if they want in then its upto them to make the effort, personally i really dont care if we only have a crew of 15 just as long as they are all active and good at what they do".

Marco shakes Fredio's hand "well said my friend"

I remember the days of when mobsters would send helpful mobmails, recruitment mobmails, and the days where if you didnt put some effort in and get into a family you got shot in the head and left in the gutter.

Getting into the family.. what a feeling for a new mobster, the safety and unity of being part of a large criminal organization. How does that mobster feel when he notices every other mobster walking the street is offered an invitation into the same family? This isnt recruitment into the military, this is the mob - 'you gotta' earn some trust if you want us to bleed and make people bleed for you'

In the end it is up to that person with the power to recruit to make the decision on what they are doing. Just remember when you just send an invite that is not earned.. you are slowly destroying the fabric of your family and our principles. These people carry the name of your family and you must always remember that.

ePiC sitting on a rock near a bush of the park and heard  what has been said. He stand and puff a little with his cigar.

"Either both of them says the truth but is there a way we can do a quantity with a quality,  I mean for me both can be observe, we all have the chance to be a sponsor of one newly mobster  in our shore, for what is the real reason we sponsor one mobster, to teach them the way our shore telling them what to do first and not what to do, it’s like,  are you going to teach a child to play with the tiger, the answer is simply no, the point with this is if you want to sponsor someone you must give a little  time to teach them the good way to teach them right way, even you member whore it is your responsibility to teach them the way it must be done, coz if you decide to keep them at your family it is a responsibility not a liability.”

ePiC Puff a little more of his cigar and started talking again.

“We all know that we can only know that he is a mobster if he is introduce by another mobster, how can he be introduce if no one will talk to him and tell him hey be a mobster and I will introduce you to the family, be reasonable enough sometimes talking to the new one is not member whoring its telling them hey this is the place of mobster do you want to be one of us do you want to know the way here, if no one will talk to them they will just do the way they wanted to do not knowing it is illegal to that city nor to that specific street, then their head will going to be blown up and died there, not knowing what have they done wrong, then their sons will not comeback coz they have seen what is life in here.”

ePiC goes back to the rock near the bush and sit.

Kordin walks up with his pipe, puffing and blowing out.


"I do believe your process has a flaw. If the sponsor is not a total dumbass and tries to teach their associate, even if it was member whored, they can stop the idiot moves before they happen. First of my bloodline was a member whorer, when it was legal. He did quiet well, having one of the Associate pass him up and become the RH, two others getting pass Made. He didn't have to kill any of them besides the ones that went Inactive."


"So, to close this little session, I believe member whoring is fine. Do you want to take that risk of having a ree ree as an Associate? That's yours to take."

Well written my friend 1 good mobster is as good and better then  10 niave ones,

Unpunishable is questionable these ones "Whored in" Could make a mistake and cost the whole family and city their lives.Whoring it'self could be punishment enough?

Well, I agree with you Fredio almost completely. Member whoring is a disgusting thing to say the least, at least in my humble opinion.It is never the best way to grow one's Family as there is a grand chance that some idiot who did not grasp the finer nuances of this way of life would take a shot at somebody and hence the crew would be decimated soon but then we must also look at the new bloodlines that you speak of.

My great grandfather, who was the first to come to these shores here arrived from the boat with close to fifty men but then he found a Family as he had paid some attention to the mob scene of America but most of the others, just came here and became sleeping bums, because the felt 'There was nobody to help them out'.In is journal, my ancestor mentioned that some of the newer bloodlines did not understand that it is city hall that is here to help them out and they wish for the established mobsters to help them and when they did not get any help, they went to sleep and then died in their sleep.

Hence, if we have to get a few new bloodlines to work for the mafia, we might as well understand the fine line that divides member whoring from innocent help offered to a new and aspiring mobster who might go far if approached early on in his life.

Z

Fredio, you put forward a VERY simplified version of what could happen.

• Meanwhile, some overly enthusiastic newbie member who was whored takes a shot or says something they shouldn't
• That newbie's crew leader is taken down in retaliation - everyone in that crew dies

No crew was ever killed for the words of a newbie. I'm not saying that member whores will thrive, but the process is more of a wilting down. The member whoring crew gets full but they never get strong so they just never amount to anything. That's about it.

More then a very simplified version, Godfather CrazyNine. That action-reaction scenario is on the far edge of the probability scale.

As with nearly all rogue shots/loose lips, the shooter/blabber dies and the family that had the shooter/blabber is out one member.

I would like to point out one thing though.

As Fredio said, some of these new members learn and grow into good mobsters. Guess what? That's the goal folks. To educate young ones in our way of life.

From what I've seen, much of this entire issue is based along making it easy for one new to our shores. Let's do another guess what. A leader only makes it easy for a "whored" member if he or she is a lazy leader and doesn't put the effort into educating and, everyone can gasp at this if they want, training.

I'm quite tired of all this whining and complaining. City hall has a reason to be making it harder for us and we should see the advantage in a different way of doing things.

If anyone can answer why I'm wrong sufficiently, then I'll change my view. Until then, I will be educating and training new ones as I've always done so, along guidelines my father set before me, for the improvement of This Thing of Ours and the city I reside in.

I will have to agree with CN here that no associate will be the cause of a whole crew's demise, but I can't say that I agree the crew will not get stronger.  A strong Crew Leader can take those newest to this place and turn them into a Made Man.  Of course it takes a lot of dedication, self-discipline, and hard work on the part of the associate but a smart,patient, and willing to teach crew leader should have no problem turning a thug, bloodline fresh off the boat, into a productive and active member of this world.

If you say this business with the crews being wiped out over foolish mobsters, then what you say is self-correcting. If this process repeats, more and more people who are member whores get pulled  from power. They will be struck down, and there will be one less, then another less. But, as pointed out by a few, an entire crew would most likely NOT be wiped out because of some foolish goombah. Though, hypathetically, say it happens, this would bring it to an end. Maybe, a bit too quick, though, I have to say.

I agree, quality is always more efficient then quantity.

Yong kids these days need a solid foundation if they want to go far, otherwise fugetaboutit.

FrankieTheFishIII takes a deep drag from his cuban cigar, slowly exhaling, before continuing on with his business.

Fredio do note that not every crew leader dies because of some stupid shit one of their crew members do.  On the other hand, I find recruiting noobies a smart task because you have more target practice and in the end you become stronger!

Some good points have been raised and I'd quite like to address just a few of them that have been presented thus far.

Firstly, to address the simplified nature of my post, I'd like to make it clear that it certainly is a simplified view of what will doubtless happen. I don't for a second dispute that. A longer, more detailed essay on the subject could easily have been produced (and almost was), but I figured that firstly my limited time could be spent better elsewhere and that secondly nobody would likely bother to read some massive tome on the actions and consequences surrounding member whoring as viewed by me.

I stick to the general premise of my speech though; some crews grow rapidly and survive for a bit, but no crew ever thrived in the long term or dominated the site by picking just anybody to do business with.

Secondly, on the point that member whoring and training will eventually produce a crop of good mobsters. I think I addressed this in my prediction already. Some will grow into good members while many others will not. The members who will eventually become good mobsters would find crews anyway by messaging round and putting in the effort. It is the ones that will not that would worry me were I a crew leader employing this recruitment tactic. Members who have not had to put any effort in to joining a crew will be less grateful for their position, will be less easy to control and will be ultimately more prone to making the stupid mistakes of which I speak.

Thirdly, to address the point raised that no crew ever got taken down for the words of a newbie. Perhaps not my friend, perhaps not, but many crews over time have been taken down from the combined stupid words and actions from several newbies. To be more specific; from the combined stupid words and actions from the people I worry about in my second point. A failure to control their members has always been a prime reason for crew take-downs in the past - and whored members can be more difficult to control than members who realise they are indebted for the place they have in the crew.

Lastly, I'd just like to re-empahasise this particular sentence from my original speech

"so instead of giving up-to-the-minute commentary or pondering (as many others doubtless will) on the rights or wrongs of the rule change"

I highlight this sentence to remind everyone that might be confused that I'm not passing judgement on those who might choose to member whore. I couldn't care less how you run your shop. It's your crew and not mine. I'm just an old man passing on an observation I've made. Pick up the wisdom (or lack of it?) and do with it what you will.

I'm not sure if this has been touched on...I don't see it, so here goes.

My concern here is that CLs will once again move toward requiring you to have an associate to rank up, or that, within one or two days of getting auth'd for sponsorship, you'll be getting messages asking you 'why haven't you gotten one yet?!'. One's character success shouldn't depend on someone fresh off the boat. Don't get me wrong, I get a kick out of helping new people and fancy myself 'crew mom', but having my livelihood depend on it? No thanks.

Gonna have to agree with CrazyNine on this one.  Fredio the picture you painted would be a lovely masterpiece of what is supposed to be the negative results of whoring.... but in reality is likely far from the actual results.

New mafiosos starting out who get "whored" are likely to make mistakes, and will likely pay for the mistakes with their lives.  I have never seen a whole crew shot down, because of something a new mafioso said, or wanted to see what would happen if they tried to shoot someone.  Rather they simply have their lives ended, and their offsprings either choose to try again or wander off into the obyss.

The ones who actually learn the ways of this world quickly and act in honour and respect, are not likely, should they get killed, to have their sons/daughters return and wander off in search of a better family.  rather they will probably have friends and ties in a family and return to them as they are the only people they know in the world.

Basically what Im saying is that while I feel that member whoring is not the most honourable thing to do, your prophecy of all good whored members going to non-whoring families, and all whoring families been wiped out, is the type of speech one hears from a drunken priest rambling on a corner.  Reality my friend is always much less interesting.