Chris laughs at RiverKing.

Nice try jabroni, you think you are Stone Cold Steve Austin now. You think that just because you say something it makes it true? You came into the streets and cried about disrespect in a funeral. You chewed the guy reponsible for said disrespect out both to his face and publically when it was not your place to do so. You went over Gwarble's head and ignored the fact that it was one of his made men who had been disrespectful airing a DOn's dirty laudry in public for all to see. The Rock see's disrespect, piled upon disrespect, piled upon disrespect. And then you flap your gums at the Rock, hoping to discredit the Rock, hoping to take the Rock down a peg, and failing miserably.

Every thing the Rock says is his own opinion, he even says it in his own way. Never once has the Rock come to the streets and expressed the opinions of someone else. The fact of the matter is, the Rock couldn't give a monkey's ass what anyone else thinks. As for you being in any way stupid... well it took you half an hour to realise the Rock insulted you in the first place jabroni. The People's defense rests its case!

"You see for me, 1 stupid act does NOT eradicate 100 great acts. I prefer to look at the whole picture."

When one stupid act affects a whole city it will eradicate 1000, what would have happen if Mango hit his shot and another city thought it was a war and started killing New Yorkers?

If all Mango did was make a mistake then fine, but a mistake is an accident, mango knew full well of his choice, it was planned and thought out, he did it 100% knowing full well what could happen not only to him but to his city.

You turn your back on your whole city and put them in a postion that could cause a problem or even death for some of them, you deserve no respect at all.

Further more

"But I am human after all and have great respect for ALL my family members."

He wasn't our family anymore

"On your methods RiverKing, you cannot come out onto the streets to preach respect and get irate over a funeral of your friend because he was disrespected"

Oh I would say I could do exactly that sir. You know, I am first and foremost a mafioso. I am loyal and respectful to my Godfather and my family. Now you can all come here and pick holes in my speeches and tell me what I should and shouldnt do. But you will all get a resounding Fuck the Hell Off in reply.

Because for me, I did no wrong. This man disrespected my friend, my family member. OPENLY, in public in front of his friends and his family. While I dont agree with afghans actions towards the end of his life, his life itself was good and honourable and he was totally devoted to his family and friends. And unlike what Prem has to say, 1 act of stupidity should not dissolve 100 acts of good. Maybe thats just how some of our minds work. The masses of the mafioso can be like the Roman Mob at times. They easily forget.

Should I have marched up to Gwarble shouting and screaming about how this dude has acted, or maybe gone to his house privately. Maybe so, it can be argued. However, in this case, I met the man in question on the streets and spoke my mind, a thing I tend to do sometimes.

So if I offended anyone in what I said, get over it. My family and my friends come first to me.

Ah thank you Mr. Rock. Very much appreciated. I understand what you meant better.

Harmony smiles as she got her answers and walked off.

Listening to the discussion for a while Tyrion dropped the end of his cigarette on the ground and extinguished it with the sole his hand made leather shoe. Stepping forward he voices an opinion.

Ok the side argument aside, I do have a point about the initial topic.

A funeral isn't for the person that died. They are dead and unable to hold any appreciation for what is going on around them. A funeral is for the people that cared for the person that died. When someone shows disrespect at a funeral it is not disrespectful to the dead, they are way beyond hurt feelings. It is disrespectful to the people the funeral is for. End of story. That's why people have such passionate reactions about funerals.

If someone has an opinion about someone that has died and wishes to voice it, the streets are an ideal place to broker such argument. There are no considerations here as anyone attending our street gatherings and discussions knows that potentially controversial and challenging subjects may well be brought up for debate. A funeral is normally attended by a group of people in mourning who's good humour and robust characters give way to their more family orientated emotions. They are more vulnerable at a funeral than anywhere else and as such will react far more violently to any perceived act of disrespect. This is why funerals are considered sacred and why they should remain so.

Personally I didn't know mango that well, we played a few games of darts together and shared a couple of laughs but that was it. He was the worst rogue I've ever seen and I am glad that his final acts made me chuckle, even if that was for the wrong reasons. I have my own opinion, would I say this at his funeral? Fuck no. Why? Because I'd expect to get slapped left and right by the people that cared for him. And in my opinion they would be well within their rights to do so.

So, your response is to tell essentially two Dons whom you have disrespcted, and a fellow New York member - and myself, essentially, is to "fuck off and get over it"? While your "1 act does not erase 100" theory may be fine, it was not just one act. He disowned your family, while proudly displaying his family credentials as he took over a building by force in St Louis, shot at one of their captains twice, all the while harboring in a thug accomplice. This was not a "mistake". This was not an "Sorry boss, I messed up.." for an improper firearm discharge - this was a deliberate act to attack against one of the highest structures of St Louis for Lord knows what reason - to still claim him as your family with the level of disrespect he showed towards your city is astounding.

he was totally devoted to his family and friends

Blatantly not. Lolz.

Astounding as it may be, yes, I still see mango as a member of NY and as a friend. Im not here to judge any man on any action, afghan fucked up, he died for it, he paid his price. the slate is now clear. I have every right to attend his funeral in peace.

If you believe that RiverKing, then you are sorely mistaken. I would advise against marching up to Gwarble, shouting and screaming about how his member acted. Chances are you will just find yourself in trouble with your own family head for marching up to someone who holds a much more powerful and respectful position than yourself mouthing off about the actions of his member. There are ways to approach things like this, and your way is ill-advised. Clearly you are fairly uneducated in the ways of this world when it comes to politics. Yes, we have politics, of course we do. If we didn't it would just be constant war and arguments between families and cities, and would be complete anarchy. What you're claiming is that you have some sort of "right" to storm up to a Don Crewleader and have a go at him over his member's actions. You are a Consigliere of a well established and impressive New York family, he is a leader, one of our more respected members of the organised crime world, and you believe you have a right to rant at him.

Also, I think the only place you'd find yourself if you told a Don CL to "Fuck the hell off" is in a heavy box in the back of a hearse - if you're lucky. You might find being in a wooden box fairly problematic when you're trying to defend a fallen friend.

Sorry Firefly, I dont believe I ever said that I had any God given right to march up to anyone and shout and scream my views. On the contrary, like I said earlier, in hindsight there might have been an easier way to deal with this. But being a passionate man, I saw only one way and when the opportunity came to speak to Gwarbles member on the streets, I did so.

I was neither shouting nor screaming, nor 'going behind Gwarbles back', just speaking my mind. What Gwarble wants to do or say to his own member is not my concern nor my business. For me, all I did was to stop a man on the street and voice MY opinion to him. What harm can there be in that. This is the streets, yes? This is where people speak to each other, yes? To me, this has always been the forum to speak your mind and say your opinion?

Really? So far I've witnessed you state "Now you can all come here and pick holes in my speeches and tell me what I should and shouldnt do. But you will all get a resounding Fuck the Hell Off in reply.", after Gwarble, Nujabes and, less importantly, myself have come out here and stated that you've approached it in the wrong manner. It would have been far more prudent for you to privately discuss the specific issue with Gwarble himself, or maybe your own CL so he can address it if he feels it needed addressing. Coming to the streets is all well and good, feel free to voice an opinion, but what you've done is drag a private issue through the mud in public. Specifics out here are unnecessary. Be opinionated within reason, feel free to argue a point but you've slighted Gwarble in the manner of which you've put your opinion forward. In case you didn't notice, I agreed with your original opinion, I disagreed with how you'd approached your expressing of the opinion. It's not the opinion that matters RiverKing, it's how you express the opinion that is paramount.

"Should I have marched up to Gwarble shouting and screaming about how this dude has acted, or maybe gone to his house privately. Maybe so, it can be argued."

I'm still shaking my head at this remark. No, it cannot be argued. How on earth can you argue that you should have marched up to someone of a much higher standing than yourself and shouted and screamed at him? There is no argument for it. There is no doubt that it should have been dealt with in private, then a general opinion could have been expressed on the issue of funeral disrespect to rogues, or something along those lines. I'm sure you believed it wise to use a case in point, but in doing so you dragged Gwarble's family into it and that is unwise.

There is no need for anyone to put words in my mouth or any need to intimate things have go on which have not.

Should RiverKing have come to me before he made this? Of course. Has he sat on his hands this entire time or been flicking me the v's? No, he hasn't. He has spoken to me about this, respectfully and I hope he now realises that this was not the right way of dealing with his grievence. Perhaps his original intention was just the discussion of eulogies for rogues in general, but it became apparent that was not the case.

As I have said before and earlier today, there are ways of dealing with things. Not everything needs to be a slanging match or to be settled with violence. I am not a hothead or someone that is going to go charging around making demands and generally getting into a pissing contest with anyone just for the sake of it. I deal with things through the proper channels and as a result, I expect the same in return. If RiverKing still has an issue regarding this, we can arrange a sitdown and see that those issues are aired and resolved - in private.

I have no intention of speaking any further regarding the actions of my Capo, because I don't particularly see what it has to do with anyone else.

~G~warble.

Duelly noted and taken in Firefly. Perhaps I was a bit hasty and free with my words. I have since spoken to Gwarble in private about the matter.

To Gwarble, I publicly apologise for not bringing the matter to your attention first.

To Firefly. Thank you for allowing me to see the error of my ways. I am but your humble servant O lord. Only you can make me whole again.

To the rest of the NY family and friends. I sincerely apologise for any trouble this episode has brought to our doorstep.

Chris appears again and looks around surrupticiously before handing out fluffy bunnies, puppy dogs and candy hearts to everyone. Almost as an after thought he glares as a distant SpaceMountain and hands out chocolates and roses.

It is good to see everything resolved here, for once without the need for the smackdown to be laid upon anyone. Its good to see that sometimes, even when tempers flair people can resolve their issues diplomatically. Whilst the Animals and the Candy was the Rock's Idea, he takes no responsibility for the chocolates or flowers, you can blame the Godfather of Los Angeles for that one. Chocolates and Roses are so last year after all! All we need now is for Freddy to come bless this happy union and all will right with the world once more.

Chris turns to go, stops and turns back once more.

Oh, if you were friends with the dreaded lolcat, you can't have a puppy, or a bunny, you can give yours to someone a bit more sensible.

Afgan was NOT affiliated to ANYBODY as soon as he decided and rogued, you can hardly try and bring your city's pull on this. Nobody disrespected NY. A few disrespected a scum of a man that didn't stand for anything we should stand for.

He may have BEEN a well respected member but he obviously was lying to you as he was conjuring less than respectable ideas and plans.

"Should we judge a man on one act, or see the whole of his life and the good he has accomplished?" Too bad he didn't kill YOU or somebody you craed about. I would be very curious to see how you felt then...

Also, were some entries erased by the gods? I don't see any insuylts in there... (up until violet's appearance)

While I'm not one to disrespect funerals myself, I'm not sure I would really punish anybody that isn't excessively crass with foul language while expressing discontent with the deceased's final actions.

And when you say "Family funeral" you mean *blood* family at best. He was NOT in your crew, so it is not a Mafia Family thing.

Oh, 1 stupid act DOES erradicate everything. Just imagine an artist painting a masterpiece and then just cuts a big hole in the middle of it. Would you say it's still a masterpiece? No, it's garbage. Just like your friend in the end.

But I'm glad all is well in the end.

"Astounding as it may be, yes, I still see mango as a member of NY"

As soon as he bought out he was no longer a member of New York. He may still be your friend, but as far as I'm concerned If one of my friends decided to disrespect me like he did, We would be on pretty shaky ground. The plain and simple matter is he fucked up, and like Prem said, one stupid decision can erase 1000 in an instant no matter how much of an upstanding member of society they were before. Defending the respect for a rogue at a funeral is hard for me to swallow. He may somehow still be your friend, but he is no longer your family, he betrayed the trust and faith you put in him and for that I have absolute zero respect for a person. While I've never been a fan of funeral bashing at all, I feel a rogue is a completely different situation, and I have no ill feelings towards anyone who can come out and say what they feel about one of the lowest things that can happen in our society