Making MIAs unstealable (make no mistake -- the change to invisibility before turn-time does just that for the large number that turn in the first few seconds of the minute) makes as much sense as making people thrown in jail from CDs unbustable except by the CD thrower. The logic for either is the same. I can't come up with any reasoning unique to MIAs that can't be used to defend making jails usable only by the thrower. The complaint "they stole my MIA!" elicits as much sympathy from me as the complaint "they stole my 20s!" Namely, none.

You're paying for the probability of benefits, not the certainty. Most of the time you'll get something very good. Some of the time, another person on the site will instead. On net, it's better to have people able to leech off of those throwing CDs and buying MIAs -- it makes it so people who can't/won't buy their own aren't completely outclassed by those able/willing to pay. It makes the playing field more level. Again, I ask: what is the difference between buying 10 MIAs and getting 8 of them, and throwing a CD and busting out 8 of the 10 20-guard prisoners that got tossed in? In both cases, the purchaser has every advantage: they know when/where the jail/MIA is. But those who are paying attention and working at it can snag a bonus of their own. That balance between the two is good for the site, not bad, because it makes sure that at no time can the deep pockets skew the playing field too far in their favor. No one likes a game where the way to win is to outspend your opponents with RL cash. (Well, maybe politicians ... but I digress)

Granted, the change to make MIAs turn faster than 30 minutes was positive in my opinion. 30 minutes was a long, long time to sit around waiting for your guy to turn if you purchased him, oftentimes when you were struggling to keep awake just long enough to shoot him and go to sleep. 30 minutes is a long, long time for someone else to have the chance to look for him. In reality, anything more than about 3 minutes 20 seconds is a lot of advanced warning. Even lazy folks had more than enough time to notice them and try to steal when it was 0-30 minutes.

But making them invisible until the moment they turn? That skews the ground too far in the favor of the purchaser in my mind. I disagree strongly with that change. Leave it at 1-5 minutes until they turn, visible to everyone the whole time and I'll be more than happy. This nonsense where even someone single-mindedly refreshing the MIA-to-be's profile at the minute on the nose and clicking through as fast as possible still might not get in on the stealing action ... boo. Just boo. That moves us too far in the direction of making this a game for those who can pay, rather than those who can play, as far as I'm concerned.

I can see your point padre, but then if you use a CD for a Jail break, I can't come along and bust all 100 prisioners with a single click of the mouse totally wasting your CD. Sure some others will be busted, but that has always been the nature of Jailbreaks. I've spent CDs on jailbreaking, and I've never been really pissed if 5 or 10 others land in the city and start busting too. As long as I get my share I'm cool with that, plus when I fail, there's someone there to bust me out.

You steal my kill, well then the CD is gone and wasted, 100% completely, and I'm trapped in a city that usually has no benefit for me or another 2-3 hours. You bet I'm pissed after that In fact I almost have shot the thief on occasion.

Another point is that the players that you're willing to protect by not allowing the ones willing to spend money with a huge advantage over them have access to credits as well, being 200k a price most of them can achieve after reaching earner, and as you rank up, it becomes quite easily ( a drug run a day for me fo example).

And there are limits to the mia killing that in my view are enough to protect these players as well, since they do manage 3 kills every 2 days even not buying any credits with game money.

Robert_McCall, the problem with that logic is you are taking the short run view instead of looking at averages over the long term. Launching CDs on average you get most, but not all, of the high ranking prisoners to yourself. Launching MIAs on average you get most, but not all, of the MIAs you pay for. It's the same in either case over all. Yes, that means that in some cases you get nothing with an MIA, but in all cases a portion of your CD is being "taken" by someone else. The only reason you're not ticked off that someone is "stealing" your CD is that you're perfectly accustomed to not getting absolutely 100% of the benefits from a CD and so the pain of seeing your points go out the window is lessened by being expected. For some reason, people don't seem to be content with the idea that you shouldn't get absolutely 100% of the benefits of buying an MIA. But there's no real difference between the two, except people whine more about one than the other.

I was looking at the long run, and out of 32 Spawned inacs, back in the day where there where 2 every 48hrs, I had 17 stolen... not the majority for me, but for others... now I'm sorry, but I can't afford to piss my hard earned money up against the wall. Sure if my CDs where bought with game money only it wouldn't bother me, but when its my own RL money that's a different matter. That only changed when the the rules where changed and out of the next 60 odd MIAs I spawned I got them all. I wouldn't mind if I lost 1 or 2 out of every 40, but over 50% is a tad harsh.

Incidentaly, when I JB, I can often free 90+ % of the inmates myself, and on occasion 100%, however, I'd settle for 50% as I'm still getting points. As I stated earlier, I don't loose all the points from a JB, so I always benefit when I spend a CD on a Crackdown... always.

You won't get me to see your PoV on this one, much in the same way as I won't get you to see mine :D

Having not long returned from my sick bed, and just having read this topic I would have to agree with most points that has been brought up by MrFox and others. The old days of having to skillfully train your gun have completely disappeared. It has turned into an age where kills are expected and easy to come by. It wouldn't surprise me if at least 80% of the game ranked Earner plus are training to become hitters. No more does one focus purely on a defensive character. Bodyguards count less and less everyday as individuals have a kill guarenteed pretty much every day with MIA'S, RIA'S and Durden rising from the grave every 3 or 4 days.

The times have changed, the old era has truly died which i sorely miss. There is an element now where whoever, has the biggest pocket can are the only true benefiters in the long run, which shouldn't be the case. I know this is not the situation for everyone as some have worked EXCEPTIONALLY hard to get where they are. A change is needed. Do I have the answers to these changes no. I have trust in those who are running the site. Thus whatever, changes are brought into place, although I may not agree with them, i will accept them as they are trying to do these changes for the better of the site. 

I agree with you Jim regarding the deth of an era. It is too easy to train your gun nowadays, and as a result the other roles of mobsters have slowly vanished. However, that being the case, it has little impact on the issue of whether admin where right to reduce the turn time and increase the invisibility of MIAs.

"I was looking at the long run, and out of 32 Spawned inacs, back in the day where there where 2 every 48hrs, I had 17 stolen... "

Then you're doing something horribly wrong. I've had less than ten stolen from me since they were introduced.

"I'm sorry, but I can't afford to piss my hard earned money up against the wall."

Then go for real IAs instead of buying your own. They're free.

Alternatively, you could try contacting your crewleader or hitsquad leader saying you've had an unreasonably high amount of MIAs stolen from you and ask them what you should do to improve your technique. If more than one or two out of ten were being swept out from under you, you're doing something wrong, and the coded protections that have been put in aren't really going to help you anyway when a dedicated MIA-opportunist comes around. On the contrary, all they seem to have done is frustrated those "thieves" and made a few decide it wasn't worth the effort.

Don't know about that, I still haven't had one stolen on me since the change was implimented.

Don't know about that, I still haven't had one stolen on me since the change was implimented.

TBH, if you had a MIA stolen off you with the changes then you shouldn't be a hitter or at the very least you need to pay more attention considering the hunter can only see the profile of the MIA now the minute it changes.

I can honestly say in the 1200+ hrs I have vested in this thing of ours.. That only one MIA has been "Taken" from me. And you know what? It was because I was unable to get to him in a timely enough fashion.

 I think as Gwarble stated not long ago: This "Thing of ours" should be less viewed as (We are all one happy family of gangsters striving to help one another) and instead, more cut-throat like it actually is.

Candy coating everything and cloaking the actual facts is starting to disgust me. There is a term called: Mobocracy (Political control by a mob) that is what we have here. Nothing more, nothing less.

"more cut-throat like it actually is."

This would be fine with a lot of people if we were taken off our leashes and allowed to retaliate against those that steal from us.  If a crewleader steals a member from another crewleader, it often ends in the death of the member as well as the other crew leader.  Yet, when a member from an outside family steals from another member to the tune of a quarter of a million dollars, we are rendered impotent by our (I'm fairly sure all CL's now) current crew rules.

People who steal MIAs are banking on victims being restrained by their own crewleaders in an effort to not make waves.

In my personal opinion, anyone outside of my own city, if caught, should be shot instantly.  They knew the risks, and pre-accepted those when they decided to steal. If its someone inside my own city, I would at least demand compensation.

Give members the ability to defend their own financial interests when they fall under attack by outsiders... and when/if this happens, I think you will find that admin intervention is no longer needed.

Give members the ability to defend their own financial interests when they fall under attack by outsiders... and when/if this happens, I think you will find that admin intervention is no longer needed.

The same could/would be said for PP'ing with that rational. If in-fact it is the finantial interest thats under attack... A can of worms if you will, that if opened would be a nightmare.

I agree with hashimodo. I have no probs with my kil being taken as long as I get to shoot you in your stupid face when I catch you doing it. Same goes for pick pocketing too, as I have stated in the past, and ohers have agreed, no Mobster ranked Made man and above should be picking pockets anyway.

People complain about everything being wrapped in cotton wool and when you say ok, we'll take the kid gloves off entirely then, you balk at the notion. Its either all or nothing. You complain that in the real Mafia it wouldn't happen, but in the real mafia if you stole from me I'd kill you, or at least die trying, or I'd get one of my boys to kill you. If your boss then came to my boss and said Robert killed my guy, my boss would say that your bosses guy was a theiving rat bastard and deserved to die. It would then be up to your boss to either retaliate or skulk back to the shadows.

I'm a button man, if you steal from me you should die, end of story. Yes as Gwarble said this is the Mafia, not a Community of tree huggers(Paraphrased for my own entertainment purposes) but I feel he was talking generally. If someone steps out of line, you whack them, or in MR terms you wack them. If you are out of line in doing so, you get whacked.

In MR land, this seldom happens. Kudos to anyone with the balls to make it happen, or who has already made it happen.

LOL, everyone wants to kill everything...so take off your "kid gloves". And be my guest ;)

I don't WANT to kill anyone Alfonse, in fact my friend i would be perfectly happy if I never HAVE to kill anyone. However, I would like the oppertunity to kill someone who robs me of my hard earned cash, earned either in game or in RL. Alas, as Hashimodo more or less puts it, our hands are tied by our CLs and GFs. You are a Don, I'm a Capo, if you stole my kill there is little I can do right now. However, if I stole yours then you should have the right for retaliation if you see fit. Same goes for picking pockets. Likewise if a MM steals from me, I should have the RIGHT to kill him too.

Here is the games message (rule) when you purchase an MIA.

This will create a publicly available IA in a random city. It will auto-turn to gangster and be killable anywhere from 0-5 minutes from now. You will be given the name and location. Despite this, there is no guarantee that you will get this kill.

Unfortunately, the underlined paraphrase is what over rules virtually every case made here on the "theft" of a kill. Now, take into consideration that EVERYONE takes that risk when spawning an MIA and then decide what is/isn't fair?

This negates what Hashimodo himself said:

People who steal MIAs are banking on victims being restrained by their own crewleaders in an effort to not make waves.

When in-fact all they are doing is playing within the rules as set forth which goes for the city rules as well. My advice- complain to your respective Godfathers to implament a rule on the matter city to city. At least then, the issue will have a means to an end.

But they are not playing within the rules, they are simply stealing what they can see. The rules say it is publicly available and that there is no Guarentee that you will get the kill, however it doesn't say that you can't kill the person who took the kill. If I shoot you right now and kill you, I am playing within the rules of the game, agreed? However there will be fall out if I do so. What Hashimodo is suggesting is that the same is applied to stealing an MIA.

When you steal an MIA, you do so knowing that someone else has paid for it. It clearly says MIA on the character, so you are aware that what you are doing is stealing from another player. As such, if i get the WS for the theft, I should be allowed to retaliate.

How would you feel if robbing banks where introduced and every hour someone was able to steal 250k from your bank account? Would you want rules protecting you from it? This is what hashimodo is suggesting. The Godfathers get together and make rules regarding MIA theft and then Admin will be able to do away with their amendments to the MIAs.