Whackers, now whackers are everywhere, again, being a hitter doesn't mean much at all it seems. Before hitters were highly regarded and commanded respect as they were the ones that protected the family. Now with the changes we have had it seems almost anyone is a hitter as the Gods seem to be helping with that front.

I agree with this.  Just recently I was confronted by a mafiosi that gave me absolutely no respect AT ALL.  I found it very discouraging and needless to say my anger was indescribable.  I feel why even have ranks or hitters if you don't get any respect from some people.  Do I think that person should have died for it? Yes.  Am I going to go half cocked and clip someone I'm not supposed to? No.  Do you know why?  It's because I have respect for my leaders and I trust their judgement %100.  Always.

So Mr.Bean you are saying that if someone from another family disrespects you and makes you angry at the point you want to kill him. But you decided not to. That is how you can tell who is a true mobster. Not because they are the most  powerful thats Bull. You can tell it by having that power and not using it.

Just promoted made man has the new power of becoming a sponsor looks at the 60 second list and picks the last name and writes out a big roleplay offering him/her a chance to become there associate he/she gets no response so he picks another one at total random until someone responds.And now he has a new associate.They don't know anything about them.Could be someone who wants to cause trouble could be someone who will go I.A after a day.But they don't know all they care about is that they now have an associate.

Really Silvio? Not necisarily every Made Man has the ability to take on a sponsor,in fact,its really two different things,being promoted to Made Man and your boss making you a sponsor have nothing really to do with eachother except that you must be Made to be given the ability. But beside that,I understand what your saying.

Cruel,I agree,my family does not come from a long line of mafioso like most of yours do,(Been here only for about a year)but still,in that short time I've noticed change myself.

Gabriel, yes but what I am saying is that some mafiosos don't respect some higher ranks. 

The Joker is wandering along when he hears a man ranting and raving.

Some of those people deserve it but a hell of a lot do not.

"Who the hell are you to decide this? How exactly is it that you have some supernatural power that allows you to judge every single persons worth? Perhaps you should name some of the people you think don't deserve it and see what their leaders have to say about it."

now, nobody bats an eyelid

"I don't know about you, but every time my boss decides to bestow upon me a new rank I am thrilled, honoured and overjoyed as are my family whom I share the HQ walls with. Whether I choose to share that privately or jump for joy in the streets is entirely up to me. And just because 'nobody bats and eyelid', does not mean the rank is worth any less."

come on leaders, get a grip. Show some bastard integrity.

"I would comment on this but Robert McCall already did, and I don't want to become a parrot. In fact, Robert did a fantastic job and basically said everything I wanted to say to you myself, so I will not elongate this much further."

This is a debate, a sort of survey.

"This is no survey, and I am sure debate has and will continue to follow. You cannot come out here with such strong opinions and try to put it under the guise of a survey. A survey asks questions, and offers no opinion... you have offered all opinions and asked no questions - Hardly a survey."

I agree with you Bean, actually I think I may have ranted on the loss of respect myself. Whilst it still happens, there isn't the same prevalence of people being wacked for disrespect, and people who should know better are running their mouths and showing zero respect to those of a higher rank.

I think the problem is that people don't seem to realise what respect is. Respect is just a front. I can think that so and so is a complete and utter waste of time, and not worth the shit on my shoe. Doesn't matter that I'm a Thug and he's a consigliere, I'm entitled to my opinion and as long as i don't voice that opinion I'm fine. When i see so and so on the street, i'm nice to his face, polite and respectful. Doesn't mean i don't have a picture of his ugly face on my dart board at home.

Robert your right, I agree with you 100%, Our world is based on good acting and faking respect, I mean yea sure we respect some people more then others and yea we pretend to respect some people and then when we rise to power we whack them off and give them cement shoe's.

You are right about some people having no respect for higher ranks. But what are we suppose to do about it I mea yeah we could just tell their crewleader and then thier leader  will most likely kill them but whats stopping them fromdoing it agian?

"Who the hell are you to decide this? How exactly is it that you have some supernatural power that allows you to judge every single persons worth? Perhaps you should name some of the people you think don't deserve it and see what their leaders have to say about it."

Where am i judging EVERYONE? Are you actually blind to the streets around you? There are many made men out there (who to me personally) do not deserve it. Everyone else seems to agree but you. Coincidence? I think not. You must be fickle to think that i would even dream of naming those who i do not believe deserve their rank. I would have a better chance of survival by jumping off Brooklyn Bridge.

"I don't know about you, but every time my boss decides to bestow upon me a new rank I am thrilled, honoured and overjoyed as are my family whom I share the HQ walls with. Whether I choose to share that privately or jump for joy in the streets is entirely up to me. And just because 'nobody bats and eyelid', does not mean the rank is worth any less."

However you or your family celebrates promotions, i really do not care. Why would i? Everyone feels excitement with each promotion but it is not the same as it once was. That is a fact, as many have agreed there are too many high ranks about nowadays so it is obviously going to mean less IN GENERAL, not individually.

"This is no survey, and I am sure debate has and will continue to follow. You cannot come out here with such strong opinions and try to put it under the guise of a survey. A survey asks questions, and offers no opinion... you have offered all opinions and asked no questions - Hardly a survey."

It is a debate and sort of survey, as i stated before. People offer their opinions and give answers. Also, thankyou for doing what i asked not to be done, try and argue with me and point fingers. Give your opinion yes, that what the whole point of this is, but do not aim it at me. What i provided here has provided positive feedback off many people about what the average perosn feels and partly of what i feel. So please, calm down. This is not a party.

Thankyou!

Gabriel, I think that they are dead would stop them from doing it again... If their son comes back and is too stupid to learn from his father's mistakes, well then he will die too, and so on and so forth until the lesson is learned or the oxygen waster is eliminated permanently from the gene pool.

Maybe Tommorows a new day it will bring new possibilities.

Where am i judging EVERYONE?

"By saying 'Some of those people deserve it but a hell of a lot do not' you are judging them all - even if it was not your intention."

Are you actually blind to the streets around you?

"No. Obviously. If you are attempting to insinuate that I am stupid in some way, please do come forward and say so. You invited opinions, and I offered mine. If you cannot handle my opinion, perhaps you should not have asked for them in the first place."

You must be fickle to think that i would even dream of naming those who i do not believe deserve their rank.

"Hardly. Just seeing if you actually had the testicular fortitude to back up your statements."

Everyone feels excitement with each promotion but it is not the same as it once was.

"It is only different if YOU allow it to be. Do not attempt to blame it on anyone else."

It is a debate and sort of survey, as i stated before. People offer their opinions and give answers. Also, thankyou for doing what i asked not to be done, try and argue with me and point fingers. Give your opinion yes, that what the whole point of this is, but do not aim it at me. What i provided here has provided positive feedback off many people about what the average perosn feels and partly of what i feel. So please, calm down. This is not a party.

"You tell me this is a debate, then tell me you asked me not to debate with you? Do not aim it at you? How can I not aim it at you when YOU are the one giving your opinions? You cannot come out to the streets and attempt to dictate what I can or can't say back at you. Maybe if you wanted people to just offer their opinions or to give answers you should've actually asked questions instead of coming out to the streets, ranting and raving. This isn't a survey at all - surveys involve questions."

This thing of ours is what it is, and I don't think there's much value in me summarising my thoughts on each area mentioned, so I won't. It continually changes, things come and go, that's just the way of it.

Member whoring, seems to me to be freely accepted. What a load of shit, come on leaders, get a grip.

Cruel, efforts were made by the cosa nostra upper structure - not very long ago - to address this, but this didn't fit in with the direction City Hall saw things moving. Thus, it was binned. There were discussions about this at the time.

Most who complain about whoring do so because they do not understand what constitutes whoring. This notion that a gangster should approach a family and seak sponsorship is flawed. What would happen if a civilian went to little italy and went up to a man of honour and said I know you are a criminal and I want to work for you dealing drugs and stealing pensions? The man of honour would deny it as required under Omera, and later that night the civie would be scooped up, and 'interrogated' before being fitted for a new overcoat and dumped in the river.

I don't agree with your definition of whoring to be honest. My bloodline never has and never will approach a bum off the streets in any capacity. As has been noted over the years, sometimes we have to make concessions on these shores to fit within our systems, for want of a better word. However, I find it far more acceptable that a no-mark proves himself to Made Men, than the idea that mafioso with important positions in our world would be touting themselves down the docks risking exposure.

Either way, it doesn't really matter at the current moment, it's not something that's policed so we're free to do as we wish.

As for the rest of the points being discussed. There are many aspects I'm keen on and many I'm not particularly happy with, but that's been the way since my bloodline set foot on these shores. Taking BGs as an example, I think we've gone beyond the stage of overkill....but it's not a big problem, I'm fortunate enough to have a reasonable number myself and I'd be silly to disadvantage myself by not exploiting the means we use.

A fed up Cruel rolls his eyes and looks at TheJoker, was this kid on drugs or just plain crazy? At least he knew now why theJoker was named so...

"By saying 'Some of those people deserve it but a hell of a lot do not' you are judging them all - even if it was not your intention."

Are you on crack? You really can't be serious!? SOME being the key word i used to describe WHO did not deserve it, that is not everyone. That is such a crazy assumption you just made which makes no sense.

"No. Obviously. If you are attempting to insinuate that I am stupid in some way, please do come forward and say so. You invited opinions, and I offered mine. If you cannot handle my opinion, perhaps you should not have asked for them in the first place."

I was not insinuating anything but given our last comment you eem pretty stupid (or very confused) to me. I can handle your opinion, as i can with anyone's. But you got personal and too excited for my liking. I love a good debate, just keep it in moderation and don't make wild accusations. Remember - This is not a party ;)

"Hardly. Just seeing if you actually had the testicular fortitude to back up your statements."

Oh, so i have no balls? Because i won't come out into the streets and basically tell a leader or a Godfather that one of his men of honour is not worthy? Tell you what, you do it. Then we will see has who has no balls.

"You tell me this is a debate, then tell me you asked me not to debate with you? Do not aim it at you? How can I not aim it at you when YOU are the one giving your opinions? You cannot come out to the streets and attempt to dictate what I can or can't say back at you. Maybe if you wanted people to just offer their opinions or to give answers you should've actually asked questions instead of coming out to the streets, ranting and raving. This isn't a survey at all - surveys involve questions."

The opinions given here are those like i have effing said twice now, IN GENERAL, not MY personal opinions. Yes, in some cases i have given my opinion and why not, its me debate! The information i speak of was gathered off people, in the coffeshops, in the streets and elsewhere. I am asking you to debate what the GENERAL perception of people currently is regarding the subjects being debated so instead of aiming it at me aim it to the public that provided me this information, whether that was directly or indirectly.

Now please, stop being so pissy and arguementative, it's getting quite boring.

SOME being the key word i used to describe WHO did not deserve it, that is not everyone.

"So, some do deserve it and a hell of a lot do not... how many people is that exactly? To be honest you completely missed my original point, which is that you DO NOT know what they are doing within their own HQ's or otherwise. Sure you can see in the streets, but that wasn't my point."

"I got personal? Where exactly? I merely pointed out which of your comments I agreed with and which I didn't and gave my opinion. If you took it personally then YOU are the one getting 'personal and excited'."

Oh, so i have no balls? Because i won't come out into the streets and basically tell a leader or a Godfather that one of his men of honour is not worthy? Tell you what, you do it. Then we will see has who has no balls.

"You seem to be forgetting who exactly made the statements in the first place - namely you."

The opinions given here are those like i have effing said twice now, IN GENERAL, not MY personal opinions. Yes, in some cases i have given my opinion and why not, its me debate! The information i speak of was gathered off people, in the coffeshops, in the streets and elsewhere. I am asking you to debate what the GENERAL perception of people currently is regarding the subjects being debated so instead of aiming it at me aim it to the public that provided me this information, whether that was directly or indirectly.

"Blah blah blah - Do not try and pass off your own opinion as other peoples, you made the speech so you take the full responsibility for the content. I never made this personal, my replies only offered my own opinion - YOU took this personally and decided to reply the way you did, anyone can see that. Pissy and argumentative? Is that really the way to talk to a button man, a Consigliere from New York? Seems like it's not only the thugs that have lost their respect."

Wars, now we see very few war and when we do, it is usually 3 cities vs 1, so it lasts a few hours. In the old days they would last forever because no one had BG's or canons for guns and it was more fair.

The reason the "wars" only last a few hours is because people are shot down in their sleep. Of course it will only last a short period of time when there is no one around to fight back. As Mr. McCall pointed out, there have always been cannons and bg's. The difference is, people were actually fighting wars not doing take downs.

"So, some do deserve it and a hell of a lot do not... how many people is that exactly? To be honest you completely missed my original point, which is that you DO NOT know what they are doing within their own HQ's or otherwise. Sure you can see in the streets, but that wasn't my point."

What, you want me to go around and count everyone above made man individually? Lolz, i wish i had that sort of spare time. As for what they do in their own HQ's, does everyone else see that? No. People are judged by what they do actively in the streets, being active, criming, doing the things all good mobsters do.

Oh, so i have no balls? Because i won't come out into the streets and basically tell a leader or a Godfather that one of his men of honour is not worthy? Tell you what, you do it. Then we will see has who has no balls.



"You seem to be forgetting who exactly made the statements in the first place - namely you.

Oh, so you are challenging someone to do something you wouldn't do yourself? How brave of you. Kudos.

"Blah blah blah - Do not try and pass off your own opinion as other peoples, you made the speech so you take the full responsibility for the content. I never made this personal, my replies only offered my own opinion - YOU took this personally and decided to reply the way you did, anyone can see that. Pissy and argumentative?

Do i really need to say this for a THIRD time!?!? It is a mixture of a bit of m opinion but mostly other peoples opinion, not everyones but the majority from what i can work out.

YOU are the on who came into the streets and got all suddenly pissy. I asked in my reply that you offer opinions but do not direct them at me, as if being arguementative for the sake of it. To be honest i have had enough of you, you are obviously trying to start something for whatever reason. Your comments and opinions have been mostly argumentative and bullshity, with little or no foundation.

Is that really the way to talk to a button man, a Consigliere from New York? Seems like it's not only the thugs that have lost their respect."

Regardless of city. A consigliere who has little or no clue what he is talking about? A consigliere who has came to the streets spewing a load of pish. Yes, i think i will call him arguementative and pissy, because it is exactly what you have been. And yes, so am i now, which is not what i wanted.

The Joker listens to what Cruel has to say.

"Well, this is truly not what I wanted. I'm for any misunderstandings which have occured here - it was not my intention."

The Joker nods his head and walks away.

Just before walking away Joker coughs.

"I meant to say, I'm sorry for any misunderstandings".

The Joker nods his head once more and walks away

McCall stands in awe as a Don and RHM of the Godfather of LA addresses one of his points.

I'm honoured by your attention Don Hoopi, of course I know who you are, your infamy being only surpassed by my Grandfathers argumentative nature. I see what you are saying regarding high ranking mafioso approaching low life criminals, but I can see one flaw in that. Our society does not allow for lowlives to prove themselves. Perhaps I have an overly idealised idea of what the Mafia is, but surely only two types of people belong in our society, the descendants of those who have proven their loyalty, for instance I am a made man, when I die the son I have introduced to Don Tyrion on Family fun days, and family picnics will in all probability be offered a position within the family if he so chooses to follow in my life of crime. The other type are criminals whom as you say have proven their worth. But how can you prove your worth?

I suppose for the most part we go by words, if you can show intelligence and a little respect to someone its usually enough to get you an associates position, its just that I feel a better way is for criminals to prove what they have to offer by deed and for them to be approached by Button men as sponsors for the new associate... the Vauled this is a friend of mine as opposed to a made man being a friend of ours.

Alas most are hovered up before they get a chance to prove their worth. Some go inactive. Some make mistakes and are killed. Often most survive fine and make a contribution to their family, but I still feel that it would be beter for the prospective associate to use the 48 hrs protection he is offered by the Gods to prove his worth before he is sponsored, to prove he is capable of walking the walk and not just talking the talk.