Hmmm.....I wonder if this really would speed up wars or if it would slow them down? I could see people doing more of the whole "shoot once every four hours, then log off for three" if more stuff makes them lose their pro. Set a timer, shoot, get a new pro, go do other shit. 

I'm not sure this would actually change anything except for the accidental person that forgets. Makes it harder for info people (cause info isn't already hard enough! >.>), since every time you fly cities to get locals you would need a new pro, but other then that....I don't see it making a huge difference. Shooters just wouldn't do crimes or anything in between shots, they'd sit in their city and take targets that are there or fly right before their shot and have a pro waiting in that city (which is basically what happens now?) 

I've not long woke up and I'm pre-coffee so not managed to put much thought into a full response yet.

However, if the idea is to stop people taking pros and then doing nothing, I think this might be counter-productive. Wouldn't this promote some people taking a pro and then just logging out for the 4 hours, rather than still being of some use collecting locals, throwing jails, etc?

I absolutely love this idea. Protection shots are one of the least realistic things in the game(though needed, I get that). Adding more realism to this makes sense, and I'm very very interested to see what others think of this.

On a similar note, I believe most are under the assumption that shooting and shooting only voids a protection shot - can we maybe get some clarification as to what the list entails?

Part of me likes this, the other part thinks that it would just wind up with people getting a pro and logging off at a higher rate than we already have. It would probably move in-war communications to IRC more often than not as well, this is a double edged sword. While it would encourage IRC activity it may discourage in-game communication to those that do not use IRC and rely on the in-game chat.

Heh, I hadn't considered the option that in that situation it would indeed just likely result in them logging off. However I'm still a fan, as it adds more realism.

Kinda like it but have a question.

Would proers be able to pro more than once per hour then?  Because if the person that is proed just ups and swaps districts/petty/or whatever (like I know I would do heh) losing said pro... that just leaves them open for an hour to be shot at.  And the way proers can be scarce in sudden outta nowhere war times, well I can imagine more high ranks dropping faster...just not sure that will speed up the war.  It might just as was suggested that people will just log off instead of being in the action and risking losing their pro.  Who can just log off and miss the action on purpose, psh I can't. :P

Besides...haven't really seen a "war" in ages.  

Does the community want a war to be over shorter? Personally I'd like to see wars take longer and give a better chance to the underdog. There aren't all that many wars these days, for the most part it is a takedown. My vote would be against this, let the side that just got hit get the chance to look around and plan a strategy. 

Also keep in mind that new players only get a chance to participate in wars if they happen to be online, they don't have contacts texting them to get online. I'd like to see wars last longer so that newer players get a chance to be a part of the effort, not log in and find themselves dead. I'd like to think we are trying to retain players and letting them be a part of wars could go a long way. 

I think this might cause wars to be shooting of relevant targets as opposed to scorched earth? Faster deaths to the accounts that matter and not risking shooting of the no-names?

I disagree Izzy. Scorched earth will happen no matter what; the big guns only take pros until the other big guns are dead; doesn't stop them from still shooting. I see what you're getting at but I don't think this is the fix to it honestly. Half the time the biggest names in the game don't need pros because they kill the caps killers first, then clean up the "no-names".

The only people I could see this actively affecting are rogues that like to stretch out their pro times. We'd see shorter rogues that's for sure. 

I have no particular feeling about increasing the number of activities that could void a pro. I would suggest that movement shouldn't be one of them. Simply due to realism. I mean, if you decide to go rob a grave as you suggest, its highly likely that you would be dangerously exposed while going to the trouble of digging a six foot hole in a local graveyard. However if you had connections and friends as mobsters do, it would be entirely possible to quietly sneak out of a hide-out and moved by car and plane to another location. 

• I'd say anything that uses your PP or Wack timer could be considered a pro breaker.
• Multi-user crimes would be another. Extremely unlikely you'd be able to sort one of those out in a war without drawing attention. 
• Possibly drug deals? Its unlikely you'd be exposing yourself that way if you were hiding from people gunning for you. 
• Jail busts? 
• Gambling? You'd be a bit silly to go hang out at a casino or gambling den if you had heat on you.
• Posting in the streets or Business district? Pretty sure standing on a street corner shouting the odds at passers by might give your location away if you were hiding.

Would be interesting whatever the decision, if once pro'd, you see a "You are under protection" screen. You can click around, access mails etc, however anything which would void your pro returns you to that screen with an option of "You really want to step outside?"

If this is implemented, I'd like to see that, as it adds context to what is happening.

People sitting behind pro's and still being effective in game doesn't make sense, if the feature is supposed to reflect being 'out of action', as an attempted wack doesn't necessarily mean the attacker completely failed and you walk away unharmed. A failed attempt may mean you were shot six times but are still alive.

If we want to build on this aspect of the game, it could get really interesting. It would be easier to explain to new people what the hell it's about, too.

Honestly I feel wars are already too fast. I'd like to see them slowed down. 95% of the wars I've seen since joining MR. Side A decides to do a take down. Side A first rounds all the CLs + heavy hitters on side B. Side B is effectively dead and can't respond. War is over, clean up begins. It doesn't really get any faster then that.

Personally I'd like to see pro's removed and BGs altered in such a way that when you buy BG protection properly your BGs must be waved before you can be wacked. This way, you cant just wave a whole city out of existence regardless of their IWP and IWF status. That would slow wars down. Right now it's literally you blink your eye, a city is gone. Rip to the fallen lets rebuild. Let's not mention that if BGs actually served a purpose other then preventing a gangster having a decent shot at wacking a GF on day one then GFs wouldn't have to behave the way they currently do, wiping cities and district out of fear of getting shot. Which would do wonders to building a more respectable community that people want to stick around and partake in. No one likes funneling 70 days worth of effort into a character and see it gone in a blink of an eye, which is the big crutch(in my opinion) that keeps this game from being as successful as it could otherwise be.

From what  I read I understand that  what most people don't like is someone  during a  war,  gets a pro shot, and  then  logs off. I also find this bad for the game. So while someone is inactive start  decreasing time of his pro. Or perhaps do the opposite. While someone stays active in game, increase  his pro time -that of course can  start now at 30 minutes, and depending his activities in  game to increase. For example if  he is posting on the  streets, just like he  is  getting XP, to earn some more minutes of pro time.

Also something  I couldn't understand is why not to be able  to kill someone while he is  in jail. If someone  gets a pro shot, then he logs off, then he gets  jailed for some reason... In reality, the only protection in jail would be the  number of his loyal members and  perhaps some corrupted guards. Not the number of the Bodyguards. So, if someone ends up in a jail full with enemies, that also the  corrupted cops in that city are being controlled by the enemies, I believe it would be  fair to decrease his defence stats. 

TastelessGentleman, that's not a half bad compromise. I have a few additions/compromises/ideas to toss around here as well.

" For example if  he is posting on the  streets, just like he  is  getting XP, to earn some more minutes of pro time. "  

I don't think that should be the case, at least for posting. I agree with Disorder in the aspect that going out into a local business and/or the Streets would draw far too much attention. So if a sliding pro-time scale were implemented, I would sincerely hope that posting would decrease the length of your pro time rather than increase it.

To the bit about reduced Defense while in jail, I like this, a lot. It stands to reason that while incarcerated you wouldn't have the normal amount of protection available as you would on-the-outs. I do think this is slightly too easily exploitable though, as the jails occupants are well...us, mostly, and some NPC's (though obviously considerably more NPC's when there's a large spawn, I'm just talking normally). 

I really like the concept, I just don't see it being too well met overall simply due to the fact that all it would take is spending a few mill at that point (overall a very small amount for what it would do,) to cover nearly the entire countries current offline people - unless the proposed lowering of Defense is a very minimal amount. It's too easy to throw a jail and get people thrown in, without fail, who are simply not around at the time. 

While yes, their protection can't realistically be as much while in jail, I don't think that it should be too impacted. After all, those with a higher defense that this would effect most (higher ranked folks, those with a high BQ eqv) are generally well known throughout the country. With this their reputation can be assumed higher, and therefore also their intimidation factor. The fear for the repercussions of killing said important person would be significant, I would imagine.

To expand farther - I hereby suggest the following combination of the above ideas.

1. Organized Crimes, Petties, and Felonies all void your Pro. [Definitely at least OC's, but in addition I'd like to see it be Petties/Felonies as you're not likely going to go and knock over a Post Office while you're supposed to be recovering/in hiding].
2. Flying before 30 minutes of the Pro shot taking place voids your Pro. While I agree with Disorder that you'd likely have enough of a local network to stealthily travel, I also think that it would at least take a little time to organize the safest route without risk of being seen/injuring yourself more. Whether you get hit by a bullet and you're injured or they just missed entirely, you'd likely be taking a short period of time before venturing out blindly - knowing there are enemies close by/taking the risk of exacerbating your wounds by moving too quickly after the injury.
3. A slight Defense decrease for those in jail with no active jail sentence. IE; those who were thrown in jail purely for being in a given city + being offline. Not sure of a reasonable number/percentage, or if that should even be public knowledge. As I stated earlier, I don't think this decrease should be that much overall.
4. A slight bit more Defense decrease for those who are in jail with an active jail sentence. IE; those who are in jail from a failed crime/drug sale/JailBreak. It stands to reason that those who are online are actively committing crime or at least aren't holed up somewhere, and could at any moment run across a cop who isn't on the payroll. They would then likely go to a holding cell or something of the sort, with the quickness, until they could manage to arrange bail/get busted out/set up a network for protection on the inside. As with the above bit, I don't believe this decrease should be terribly much, though significantly more than if you're in Jail and offline.
5. Significantly reduced BodyGuard defense for those who are in Jail, both "Active" and "Inactive" [in regards to the sentence,]. While locked up, in theory, your BodyGuards aren't nearly as alert/effective as they would be if you were actively anywhere else doing things to put you in harms way. They also likely aren't all hanging out in the same area together - subsequently lowering the amount of skill needed to catch them unaware.
6. Potential separation/different reductions for BG Defense between those with an Active sentence and those who are "Free to go"?
7. Anything that uses the PickPocket or Attack timer voids your Pro. Speaks for itself, Attacking always did void a Pro, and I find it highly unlikely in a time of rest/hiding that you'd be risking anything over the petty cash a PickPocket would provide. And as Disorder said with the GraveRobbing, it's not likely you're going to be out at the local graveyard digging a 6 foot hole.
8. Gambling voids your Pro. Again, for the same reasons Disorder stated earlier.
9. JailBreaking voids your Pro. Too high-profile of a crime to risk it during hiding/rest.
10. Posting in either the Streets or Business District voids your Pro. Speaks for itself.

In addition, I don't think that selling drugs should void your Pro, especially if traveling does not. Though I'm sure some of the drug sales happened directly - Mobster[player] to customer[Drug page] - I would imagine most use a network of others to pedal their drugs.

#HolyCrapBatmanThisWasWayLongerThanIntended.

It's not like wars are 4-7 days long anymore. Sure, we have to spend hours upon hours at times hunting and refreshing, but it's very rare that it happens as most of the time it's just a quick removal of a district or city then back to business as usual. 

Note: The above proposal(s) I stated were done with the aspect of realism in mind, foremost, not necessarily with any thoughts in regards to shortening/lengthening  wars/takedowns.