One only has to look at the obits to measure the calibre of the opposition to those at the top of the hierarchy.

Men of honour, made men, with powerful guns, reduced to firing shots all but guaranteed to miss their target, Street speeches containing rousing calls for action but falling on deaf ears and, most pathetically of all, the covering up of witness statements.

One only has to look into historic journals to see that, in the past, so much more was done.

To those of you who are skulking around, going to the shooting range, preparing yourself for the kamikaze shot at a GF that's all but guaranteed to miss, why not, instead, head to LA or DT?

Why not set up something your own self, instead of trying to destroy something else?

Where is your ambition?  Individuals with a grudge, acting alone, with achieve nothing.

This is a golden age in our history - you want to build something?  It's easy!  Go to LA or DT.

What do you have to lose?

The argument that the other side poses is that if they were to move to LA or DT, The_Big_K, they'd then be paying Disorder to have an HQ only to be wiped out a few weeks later. I want it known this is not my opinion, this is what many of those "malcontents" as you've put it, have argued in the past. 

It's a viable option, but I can see the logic they're putting forth. I still maintain that taking low chance potshots are bush league, but my opinion matters little to them, I presume. 

Were spots in LA or DT be named free, I'm sure they'd take up the offer, but that'd be silly on our collective parts to let those who've openly protested and threatened Disorder to set up shop for free. 

Medicore point, badly made, dub.

Disorder blatantly isn't really scared of anyone, he'd let them set up just fine.  

If that's the case, then great. But I don't know why anyone would let people who've openly talked about and actually made attempts on his life let them set up like nothing ever happened... And I'd never pretend to know how somebody will act, so I'm completely disregarding "he'd let them set up just fine" because you don't know that and neither do I. 

Menace was nervous to speak out. He had only just emerged into the criminal life and was still attempting to learn the lay of the lands. Being a petty thief in Los Angeles he was intent to the words being spoken by The_Big_K and though he wasn't at all familiar with the attempts people were taking on Godfathers.

Though I'm not sure why someone would attempt to remove a Godfather and turn the world into open chaos; especially where the shooter them self would surely not make it out alive. I see the wisdom behind what you speak sir. It would be wiser for one to try build something they can call theirs for the rest of their days instead of attempting to destroy something that would surely lead to their own demise as well as change that many don't know if it be good or bad until they have to experience it. By then it is too late.

I think, Menace, that it isn't so much what the current order does that people object to, it's they miss and crave the chaos.

Disorder, frankly, has power that everyone would like.  His opponents don't deserve to succeed, they're pathetic.

If I can add my two cents Dub; from what I have heard and read about these two cities, if one is diplomatic in their approach as well as willing to work with others they could have a chance to last. Look at Whitey_. He has managed to live quite some time without any of the other crews attacking or even removing him and his uppers. So yes I can see the hesitation some may have surrounding being killed off in just a matter of weeks it really comes down to their approach. Though to be fair if there is a tyrant with a big gun sitting in one of the cities one's approach might not matter to such a devilish psycho.

Judging by the amount of friends Disorder has it looks to me like he is quite generous and willing to share his power and spoils with those that have earned it.

Yes, Menace, I am quite familiar with your boss. We go way back. In every interaction I've had with whitey he's been respectful. That's far more than one can say about those in the streets threatening our godfather which is why, were they to set up in one of the cities, they'd be stripped of their titles and buried 6 feet under quite quickly...

Sorry, Whitey isn't your boss, I assume when I saw the LA tag.

No worries it's a rather fair assumption though I'm sure such an intelligent man like yourself knows what they say about assuming. I'm glad to hear Whitey is a respectful man, great quality especially in a family head. It's rather sad though that someone would open a crew in either city with such suicidal intentions. You would think since they are paying tribute to the man they wouldn't attempt to kill him, as it's counter productive to give cash to someone who is spending it to be harder to kill.

I think you're missing the point... The people want Disorder dead... Why would they want to set up a crew when Disorder KNOWS they want him dead and expect to live longer than a week...? It's a death wish for those who've openly shared their hatred of Disorder to attempt to legitimize themselves in LA/DT. There's an easy workaround by just incogging if they legitimately just wanna do their own thing, great. But yes, if they open up a crew and still intend on roguing, it doesn't make sense to pay for Disorder's BGs. 

But my point is they'd have to drop every idea of roguing if they wanna legitimize and set up in DT/LA. Otherwise, it's a waste of time for them.

I see now what you mean. I think there are two classes in that regard, one being those that want him dead because they feel with his death tyranny ends, not really understanding this is always the way of life when one group runs the country instead of several competing factions which always ends up again with one group ruling. Then there are those with extreme hatred for the man who just want to see him dead period. Those are usually old timers that have been killed off more than once now that will go the incognito route to accomplish there goal.

None the less, I've just recently discover this protocol called Witness Statement Collecting. From what I was told it is used to see the amount of Statements each person was producing so their gun's could be more accurately calculated. I guess in short it's to also see who is building in secret or building fast. If for some reason there are those building up in secret in either of those cities I'm sure Disorder would handle things in the best way for the community, I won't begin to make assumptions on what avenue he would take in such an instance, but I believe Disorder wouldn't waste his valuable time being paranoid of those in DT or LA.

Long story short I like what The_Big_K was saying where instead of wasting time and recourses with trying to destroy something, it would be wiser to build there own and that there is places to do such without the worry of being removed if they do business the right way. Though Dub I see where you are coming from as well. Though god forbid people sent him or Monster money to set up in either city just to take pot shots the whole DT LA project would certainly undergo some changes. 

"If I were the head honcho, and I had the power to keep my rivals from starting families of their own in other cities, I'd probably do so as well.  Who wouldn't?"  Lucy shrugged, shoving her hands into her pockets causing her shoulders and the red suspenders on them to rise up a bit closer to her ears for a moment.  

"You don't have to be some kinda ambercrombie to know you don't let a competitor, or a former competitor's close associate, get a toe hold on anything that might take business away from you and yours.  Especially if your life might be on the line.  It's not personal.  It's business.  Now, if you got someone who comes to you with a legit proposal, some way that both can profit, then maybe the big man is convinced to look the other way while you set up your own family and grow it.  I can't see a reason why anyone would expect him to do anything different."

"Now, if what Dub here is sayin' is true..."  Out of her pocket she pulled a coin from Terminus and began playing with it.  "Then flappin' our gums ain't gonna do a thing.  When a man gets murder on the brain, ain't nothin' but blood gonna end it.  Course, if they're lookin' for blood and don't want no other way of resolving their issues, then they really can't get all wacky about the fact that the Godfather's gonna institute whatever rules he needs to in order to keep those who are loyal safe... and to give those gunnin' for him the kiss off."

"Damn shame to have things like happening though.  Much rather see the problems resolved without funerals being involved."

The thing is though these cities are open to one and all. You got the coin, and not talking the terminus kind by real cold hard cash then these cities are open to be made home. Again, I see where Dub is coming from. If they are openly in hatred of the current regime than sure they are a threat but not a real one till they've built a cannon which does take a fair amount of time and dedication. If people set up to take pot shots than again there would be changes to those cities. Please bring me up to speed but I'm not aware of either city taking rogue shots, though I do know there have been some taken but I'm not aware of where from.

We get back to the whole why put money into the pockets of one you would have dead. Then the money is gone with him if one succeeds but till then it's building his defence even more. Which again is counter productive.

I feel the whole point to this is to offer people advice. Why build a bit to die and never experience the rush this thing of ours will give you, when you can and actually find joy in the day to day by building something in LA or DT instead. I don't think this really applies to the underground groups constantly scheming to remove our current heads, as much as it applies to those just unhappy and feeling bitter and resenting the tyranny.

no one wants to go set up just to die is all

I think it could do with pointing out that Los Angeles belongs to Chicago, all revenue from that city goes into Chicago's accounts. The proceeds from Detroit go to Las Vegas.

It should also be highlighted that not one single crew from Detroit has been removed by me or any external force, without breaking the rules. All but one of the crews that have occupied that city (and I think that number is over 14 to date?) have been removed by internal conflict, attack from Los Angeles or suicide. 

All I'm saying is that anyone in their right mind would wipe a crew if they new the leader of said crew wanted them dead. That's the point I'm trying to make and I wanna make sure it's not lost here. I'm not saying Disorder is a dictator waiting to pounce on unsuspecting crews in LA or DT. I'm saying, if people who want you dead set up in a city, would you leave them there for long or would you wipe out the threat. I'm not trying to say you've wiped the cities in the past. 

Hope that clears up any confusion.

Is there a difference...? Both allow just reasons for a clean wipe in my opinion. I wouldn't let a crew just sit around and train if I knew their ultimate intentions were to see me dead? I don't know why that's so confusing.