As for me building a cap killer, well, that really shouldn't be Curtis's concern if I'm not in "his" city. The fact that it is just shows weak leadership from the other city leaders. He certainly shouldn't be able to shoot whoever he deems fit without authorisation

Who does he need auth from? These other leaders are in position because Disorder sees fit for it to be so. Why would he need to ask permission for anything he does? 

We aren't in rebuild because of too much killing, we're in rebuild because CL's and their sponsors are lazy fucks who don't want to tutor new players, or have the chance that they recruit a rogue (which is going to happen anyway)

WS catching is part of the game, as is pretty much anything anyone does that everyone else cries about.

If it's not Disorder, it will be the next top gun, then the next, then the next.

As far as debating on the streets, or in OOC, are we not doing that in this very thread? I believe everyone welcomes a healthy debate, as long as folks aren't slinging around disrespect. And let's be real, OOC, Outside, or in the Streets, if you talk shit about someone with the ability to kill you, you're likely to end up with cement shoes. Should it be this way? Eh, probably not, OOC is out of character, but unfortunately people hold grudges, so, shit happens.

That said, I've yet to see Disorder kill anyone for speaking in the streets.

As for the 1% shots...they don't need to be 1% shots. The higher you build, the more that percentage goes up. I find it insanely hilarious that everyone cries about how terrible the game is right now, but does absolutely fuck all to change it. It's rather simple really, but I suppose no one wants to put the effort in. But man, can they put a ton of effort to write long winded posts about why it isn't fair or how parts of the game that have been here for a decade or more are being used maliciously.

The higher you build, the more that percentage goes up. I find it insanely hilarious that everyone cries about how terrible the game is right now, but does absolutely fuck all to change it. It's rather simple really, but I suppose no one wants to put the effort in.

Rather inaccurate statement. People have put in the work to get a chance to change the seating at the big table, but they where removed before they could hit a legitimate point of having a chance. Could they have tried a take down You can't blame the people at the top for eliminating potential risk, as that is the nature of the game.

I don't know from where you've drawn the questions you're posing in your first paragraph out of the things I've said, if they are even based upon the things I've said at all, so I'm just going to ignore them.

I don't know the exact circumstances you're describing in your second paragraph, but the result speaks for itself. The right person didn't vouch for you and you should have done more to make sure they did. Do you not have the ability to write mails to more than one person? To your Godfather? To any Godfather? To any of the people who get listed in pissy little OOC threads as being the ones in power? But no, it is easier to do the "woe is me" than actually evaluate what happened and how to improve.

And; 

We aren't in rebuild because of too much killing, we're in rebuild because CL's and their sponsors are lazy fucks who don't want to tutor new players, or have the chance that they recruit a rogue (which is going to happen anyway)

Not exactly true; it isn't a question of laziness, rather a question of enjoyment, which in a game, is pretty important. Unfortunately, being a sponsor is a largely thankless task that few people enjoy and therefore either do not do at all or do not do consistently. The ones who do it, more often than not, either have a loyalty to the game or a loyalty to their leader which overrides their misgivings. That sort of motivation doesn't provide for the makings of a good system.  

Then they did it wrong, thereby not putting in the effort. It doesn't take a 900 gun or whatever number you want to insert there, to take out the guy at the top. As long as everyone keeps thinking that's the case, then I guess I'll have tons of material to debunk as threads like these keep appearing.

My 2nd to last post wasn't directed at you Larry, but, since you quoted me..So you are stating that rebuild is not the direct result of CL's and Sponsor's not doing their jobs? You're agreeing with the (false) statement that your former CL, yourself, and LV are killing too much? I'm confused.

Who does he need auth from? These other leaders are in position because Disorder sees fit for it to be so. Why would he need to ask permission for anything he does?

If the leaders in foreign cities are not worthy of authorising the murder of one of their own, then in what capacity are they "leaders"?

We aren't in rebuild because of too much killing, we're in rebuild because CL's and their sponsors are lazy fucks who don't want to tutor new players, or have the chance that they recruit a rogue (which is going to happen anyway)

So you're saying the current crop of leaders are completely inept? So what's the point in them being in place?

That said, I've yet to see Disorder kill anyone for speaking in the streets.

Peter, I think you should probably stop waving your dick about and put it back in your pants before something bad happens to it.

Reply by: Disorder at Jul 24, '17 07:56

Does this not constitute a threat of death following some "healthy" debate on the streets? It does to me.

As for the 1% shots...they don't need to be 1% shots. The higher you build, the more that percentage goes up.

Well... not really. Either you have a gun capable of killing someone, or you don't. If you don't then the 1% comes into effect. If you do, then you're like 97% certain to hit. Building that gun takes months of effort, and if the regime is executing anyone outside their own, without expanding that circle, then what is the point in anyone trying to build a gun?

I'm disagreeing that we are in rebuild mode because people are lazy. Most people aren't lazy when it comes to recruiting, they don't want to do it because they don't enjoy it, which is why this problem recurs. 

Babyface: It's not my position to state whether they are inept or able, apparently they are able enough or they wouldn't be in the positions they are in.

As far as having the gun to take a shot, it's not simply hit or miss. Also, just having a gun to shoot does not make a viable effort to change the scenery. There's a lot more to it. So, say you have the gun, you take your shot, you kill Disorder...now what? If that's all you have planned, you're more than likely dead, and Tobias steps up, or Larry, or whoever. This is what I'm saying, the game isn't just about building a gun, as much as everyone else seems to think so.

In PeterParker's case, that was not a mere debate, he was disrespecting folks who had the power to shoot him, and, so, he got shot. There's a difference between a heated debate, and pissing on the wrong boot.

Larry: Ok, I'll rescind the lazy label, it's not ONLY laziness, but the fact that there are 200 openings between all crews, tells me folks don't want to do their jobs, or people are too afraid to let go of the past, or people are just untrusting. I don't know. My father was a sponsor, and not one of the messages he sent to recruits was ever returned, so, I DO feel their pain in that sense, or, he just really stunk at recruiting. Fact of the matter is, there really is no reason we should be in rebuild with all of these openings.

Actually Betsy, the current regime got into power by betraying the trust of those who shared the district and helped eliminate the competition. Nothing wrong with that - it's a power play and it was well executed. But then closing off your circle and bloodlining those same people - without legitimate reasons - out of fear of retribution is what I consider to be an unacceptable tactic.

Indubitably, perhaps I missed the part where PeterParker was being disrespectful. Would you be good enough to quote the part which was disrespectful enough to warrant his death, please?

How nice of you to speak for Chicago residents, Larry. That is a mighty long neck indeed that you have there, stretching all the way from Vegas to Chicago to speak as though you are one of us.

At this point in time, Larry was the RHM to Disorder. Disrespectful? I suppose that's to be debated. I find it disrespectful to speak so condescendingly to the RHM of the man who calls the shots.

But, none of these words actually got him killed, going rogue got him shot, so, that kind of ends that part of the equation.

I wasn't questioning what got him shot. I said the only reason Disorder comes to the street is to issue unwarranted death threats, which I maintain that was. You were the one who intimated he was shot for disrespect, I just didn't correct you. The threat, however, as you yourself have conceded - had questionable reasons.

BabyFace, I've said to you before the circle isn't closed, yet you keep repeating that it is. Do you really think we all got together 11 months ago and put this together? No. People who have proven themselves have joined the team and it has expanded to the point where it is now. If it was really as tyrannical as you're making out, why haven't we just killed everyone? Why do we have CLs in our cities besides Disorder and a bunch of container crews?

Indubitably, rebuild requires a minimum of 90% coverage at all times. That either requires a lot of effort from a few people (current situation) or a bit of effort from a lot of people (desired scenario). I am currently on a 6/55 success rate, which means that just under 11% of the people I contact end up joining my crew. That's a shitty rate of return. Maybe it is me and all my sponsors and that might be some of it, but I rather suspect it is because it is a difficult job, like any sales role usually is. I don't play this game to recruit people to my family and I don't play it to click the flagging "assoc" button all night. I don't think a lot of other people do either. So I think the best solution is trying to make the sponsorship system either more enjoyable or more straightforward so people do take up the spaces that are there, rather than just saying it is CLs/sponsors fault. 

I am still a few posts behind, but I wanted to pop this in before I head out:

"As for the 1% shots...they don't need to be 1% shots. The higher you build, the more that percentage goes up."

@Indubitably- You should learn how guns work. It is indeed a 1% shot, pretty much right up until you're able to make the shot. Heh.

I concede it is definitely not an easy job, and have to admit I did not factor in coverage into my statement, but even with that being said, I can't honestly believe that every CL and Sponsor are doing what they can to get us out of rebuild. Perhaps they are and I'm just full of shit, so be it. This stemmed from the statement that rebuild was caused, or a direct cause from, the current regime killing everything in sight, which simply is not true. My apologies if my 'lazy' comment offended you, or anyone else for that matter.

BetsyLou

" Or the droves of people leaving these shores, got statistics or evidence to show how this regime is killing the game? "

Yes. As I tried explaining to you...multiple freakin' times now, we are actually down a considerable amount of users, and average daily hours played. Do I have proof? Yeah...the fucking front page of our site yo <3

No problem at all and I undoubtedly agree that rebuild has many other factors involved besides "this regime killed everyone".

HenriDucard, can you show me those numbers? Can we see the trend of users before and users during the peak of between say; Roman's regime, DeadlySin's regime, Anita's regime, Deimne's regime, etc. etc. because I'm fairly sure the users before and after will always be a lot higher than during. 

Active in last 24: 468
New in last 24: 99
Killed in last 24: 25

Hours in last 24: 819
Avg hours in last 24: 2.2

During a "healthier" time-frame, these numbers usually sit around 500-550 Active in last 24, and a few more hours daily avg in last 24.

Whether this is from people being driven away, laziness, the site becoming dated, a genie in a bottle, or an outburst in internet outage, I cannot say. I can say, though, with complete confidence, that the numbers don't lie.

LarryLongNeck - I can and do agree with you there. At this "stage" of almost any regime, the numbers dip down like this. As for more specifics, I'll have to see if I can dig some info up on that.