...the place where your hopes, dreams and aspiration are crushed!

Howdy folks. Inspiring opening line I know! =)

I'm here to talk to you about progression, or maybe even a lack of it. Now, this is a tough subject for me to find a starting point on so I think the best thing I can do is pose a question (well... 3 questions rolled into one) and I'd love totally frank and honest answers.

Do YOU have a chance of progression? I mean, seriously... are you always going to just be a respected Made+ or will you take that next step and become a RH/LH or even run a family of your own? Do you believe that opportunity is going to come for you?

The reason I ask is I hear numerous comments about the same bloodlines getting auth time and time again, along with comments about mobsters are fed up because they believe they will never progress.

Personally, I think it's a really tough question to answer. On the one hand... everyone wants to believe that if they WANT to progress they can, but realistically only very few ever do. I've not had an in-depth look at the crew list but usually at any one point in history at least 50% of the current crop of leaders have been bold somewhere down their fairly recent lineage (you could even throw me in that bunch too).

There are many sides to the argument of having bolds whose blood have been leaders before. For example you could use the simple explanation that the gene pool we have to pick from is so small so there are bound to be 'duplications' somewhere down the line. You could also argue the 'tried and tested' method... where a GF/acting GF chooses someone based on the fact that their bloodline has shown to be very competent at running a family. This is also a legitimate explanation as it's totally up to the GF who they want to run a family in their specific district.

On the flip side to that, there is an argument that bloodlines getting auth time after time creates a lot of stagnancy. Which is a very valid argument seeing as most of us at some point during our family tree have moaned about it. We've even lost lengthy bloodlines due to their loss of interest now. You get the same idea's, the same way of thinking... basically, you know what you're going to get. Which in turn, creates a mundane society that struggles to evolve as new auths, therefore new thoughts and ideas are not being brought into our little circle of life.

My answer?

Well, I know one thing. If my blood had chosen to go totally anonymous this time around I wouldn't be in the position I am now. I was made RH to Subtle based on our 2 bloodline's dealings in the past, however I believe I got bold because of the way I went about things as Subtle's RH. I hope I proved my worth.

So, honestly... in the vast majority of cases I believe that the respected Made+ will remain exactly that. I don't believe that you have much chance of progression.

However, I will note that all it takes is for one of the GF's/bolds to take a chance for you to break those ranks. To the best of my knowledge, my own LHM's (Kattan) bloodline had never been in a position of authority before now but he impressed me massively when we were under Subtle's roof. So much so that I took a chance with him and so far I've been proved right. He has taken to it like a duck to water and should the opportunity come around and he continues to serve Corktown with the distinguished guile and precision that I have come to expect from him, then I shall push for him to go even further.

The opportunities are limited, so in my opinion it's as much on your every day mobster to choose the right leader that may just give them their chance as it is on the leader to look for a way to give fresh blood a crack at the big time (on a totally side note, this is why I'm a big believer in Cantona's project... it could benefit both new recruits and leaders themselves get the right people in).

Hmm an interesting discussion, boss, and one I'd like to throw my opinion in on.  I don't necessarily believe that the bloodlines are promoted up, or given their authorization just because of their bloodline.  I believe with a long blood line comes a certain familiarity with this world that a new line just does not have.  It was not long ago that my father got off the boat here and he had no knowledge of the workings of our underground society.  His naivety is what lead to his death and he did not leave me with much knowledge of how to succeed in this world.  It has now been some time that I've been and thanks to some great help from some of the long bloodlines I feel that I am finally at a good understanding of this world.  I still have a ways to go, but my family bloodline shall never have to worry about the complete lack of knowledge.

I do feel that through my interactions and learnings that I will be moving forward at some point.  I do believe that eventually I will move to a hand position and maybe far into the future I will have the opportunity have my own family to help grow and foster the community.  I don't believe that this long slope to get there is simply because I do not have along bloodline here, but more the lack of knowledge that comes when you are missing that bloodline.

What I will agree with you is that 90% of our community will never rise to these levels, but I would put this more on a lack of will to really learn how to be a true leader in our world.  In my time here, sure, I've seen nepotism.  But most times it is deserved nepotism to someone with great family knowledge.

I think a pertinent point here is what I think is a misconception regarding how members should and shouldn't speak to their Leaders. The perception is that a mobster approaching his Boss to specifically and explicitly to discuss advancement is something wrong and that it should be frowned upon. I categorically don't believe that is the case.

Let me say, naturally, that those who approach their Leader in an expectant, cocksure 'Where is my button?' kind of manner shouldn't be suffered lightly. I can tell you from reading my bloodline's journals that any ancestor of mine in a position of power impressed upon all their underlings that such things were privileges, not rights, and that to assume otherwise would mean a drop down the pecking order.

That's not what I'm really talking about, though. As you've alluded to Orithyia it's easy to toil away but never put your head above the parapet; and once an opportunity goes to those who will grab it with both hands, it's easy to point at your hard work and dedication to play the martyr card. So what I'm talking about is approaching your Leader in a positive manner:

'I want to take on more responsibility', 'I'd like to run a crew one day', 'Tell me how I can impress you and the Godfather'.

All of these discussion are ones that can be had to indicate you are willing to better yourself and your city and that, to my eyes, would make you an asset. None of these discussions, if handled diplomatically have to carry an air of arrogance - that you're too good for your current position; and if you can't handle the discussion diplomatically then advance probably isn't right for you.

Although my own crew is hardly 'the norm', I will use an example here. -Vi- joined me first of all as a sponsor, to directly assist with the hoodlums we're making contact with. Immediately, she made clear to me that she is ambitious and would like an opportunity to prove herself and create a name. I was impressed with the fact she had the foresight and the balls to ask me, and in the respectful manner in which she did it. Some time later, I have absolutely no regrets in giving her the opportunity and this experience will set her in good stead for the future.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for what you want in this world; it just depends on how you do it.

I feel that opportunities for progressing upward is a catch-22 at times. I have also heard that certain positions in the family are hard to come by if your bloodline has not already been in that position (i.e experience), or if you don't personally know someone.

With that being said, most people won't have the opportunity to be a crew leader, or one of the Hands, because they don't have what it takes to lead. Instead of seeking the answers to the question, "What can I do to improve myself?" they will point fingers at other people.

Now, about opportunities. If a family does not provide much leadership opportunities for people to get noticed, then they must create opportunities for themselves. However, in order to do that, the people must already know what needs to be done so they can fill in the gaps - hence the catch-22. A lot of people just want to be told what to do, but I believe if you want to be a CL/RH/LH, you can't just wait for people to tell you to do things, but to take initiative. I do believe that families should provide the opportunities needed to scout and nurture talent - it will only benefit them to do so.

Someone told me a long time ago that in order to be a good nightclub owner, one must be familiar with all of the jobs in the nightclub from bottom to top. That way they know how the jobs are supposed to be done, and if it's not getting done, they know how to handle it. I believe the same applies to running a family.

If you get passed up for being a LH/RH, or if your boss doesn't select you to set up your own family, work harder and smarter. At the very least, the next generation can hugely benefit from the experience that you have acquired.

Well, well well... I can say this for you, Don Orithiya. You rarely disappoint. Always a nice attention-grabbing topic. Something that will attract a LOT of attention from a LOT of quarters.

Do YOU have a chance of progression? I mean, seriously... are you always going to just be a respected Made+ or will you take that next step and become a RH/LH or even run a family of your own? Do you believe that opportunity is going to come for you?

Yeah, I kinda do.... or at least, I believe so. Maybe it's just an insane amount of over-confidence that is eventually going to get me a mouthful of lead or maybe it is something that will help me succeed. Guess, that answers the first two of your questions. Moving onto the rather juicier section of this trio, no I don't think that an opportunity is just going to fall down from the heavens. I believe that a lot of work is required. A lot of sacrifices, too. I think the major reason for quite a few bloodlines loosing 'interest' in this world because they were passed over for progress one too many times is because the majority of those bloodlines didn't really understand the process for acquiring progress.

Progress is not just for you. If one was to look at the bigger picture, the progress could at the end of the day be for your entire bloodline. That is what, I think, is the right way to look at this quandary.

As for the 'recycling' phenomenon, it is my heartfelt belief that at the end of the day, we don't really have a choice. Most of the bloodlines which get recycled, have proven, time and again that they are quite capable of running a crew and in the vast majority of the cases, they never seem to have a shortage of a hunger for progress in spite of having 'been there, done that'

P.S: As for the line about throwing you in the bunch of the 'recycled' leaders.... I am not sure if that is just to prove a point or if it is just another cryptic, 'Hey, you all know me' kinda tip.

tony steps forward from the crowd, a puzzled look upon his face

So alas I'm confused. Are you saying yourself that you merely received auth based on an ancestorage being recognized opposed to your body of work?

You have come before us twice now speaking similar messages, yet I gather you're trying to prove a point that is pointless. Would I trust someone who's blood has graced these shores often in the past over someone who has never had an ancestor rerepresented?  Of course. I know the actions, the loyalty, the work ethic. However a name or lineage is not enough to say that person qualifies more than the next as the old saying goes "a rose by any other name". 

I do feel that you earn what you get. Your body of work speaks louder than a recognizable name drop. However if you want to put your best foot forward and put your best chances of thriving in front of all else you'll go with who you can trust,  who will put their life on the line for your cause. If that's the great great great grandson of a family friend? So be it. You have a hard working proven up and comer who has proven their self? By all means.

But don't think someone who has hinted they've let slip to some what bloodline they hail from to get somewhere to prove a point should be chastising others for it.

Where in the blue hell did I chastise others for it tony? Show me where....

I asked some questions, gave 2 sides of the argument and gave my own opinion. Quite where you pulled the chastising from I've no idea. You couldn't just reply without making out this post is about myself and its bloodline's origins.

Also... if you actually listened to what I said, then my original post answers your quite.... ignorant and arrogant question.

"So alas I'm confused. Are you saying yourself that you merely received auth based on an ancestorage being recognized opposed to your body of work?"

No, I am not and I very clearly pointed out I didn't believe I got auth based on my lineage.

If you're going to reply without actually listening, don't reply at all please. I found your post to be close to a verbal attack on myself.

Well done for pointing out the fact I attacked you. Which I will agree.

We get it. Your bloodline was someone else. Its secretive. Good job. However you've dropped this hint twice in two different, as McLuvin said, cryptic ways as if to unravel yourself until the big reveal comes. 

I merely would like to believe you're doing this to prove a point that doesn't need to be proven. We get it, its been hspping since the times of old. You hqve to put it out there that you are incognito hiding your lineage. You seem to bring it up in any large street spill and if you're saying folks are hsnded something based on who they are ehy drop it to some behind closed doors and then bring it to the streets? Why not stay incog and show you earned something opposed to making many questiom otherwise?

Now you're beginning to annoy me.

I never brought this shit up, you did (I mentioned I was a leader before because someone would've come and pointed that fact out if I hadn't). This has nothing to do with this fucking post, so leave it out.

If you want to continue this, then mail me, I'm not doing this out here. Otherwise, piss off.

However a name or lineage is not enough to say that person qualifies more than the next as the old saying goes "a rose by any other name".

I don't feel that is entirely true, because in business, all a company has is its name. Their brand name represents what they are about. So we could say similarly, when people hear of certain names, they think about what the name stands for. This is why reputation is so important in this world, because you (as part of your entire bloodline) are only as good as your last action.

If your predecessor was a great leader, people will tend to expect good things from you. If your predecessor was a rogue or did other dishonorable things, you will have to work harder to change the opinions of others.

And that is a good thing why, exactly, Blaise? 

McLuvin...does it happen though?

Whether I say  it's a good or bad thing doesn't change how things work.

For instance, this conversation that we are having. Some people still can't get over Orithyia's last street conversation about whether people have the right to know her bloodline, and saw fit to bring it up via straw man's arguments in this conversation.

So maybe you can tell me McLuvin whether or not it's a good thing.

Yes, it does happen. I, for one find it to be quite a shameful practice but as I said in my earlier reply, it's the only shot we got. Too many fingers have been burned from authing a 'first timer'. 

Although, I do understand where tony is coming from. He feels that Orithiya saying that she is from a bloodline that has 'made it's bones' repeatedly and revealing that to Subtle was why she got RH would be rather.... irritating? Annoying? or just a tad bit patronizing to the others who cannot claim to have illustrious forefathers..

But why would that have an effect on anyone? Even if Subtle did not choose her, that's not going to mean Subtle would had chosen tony or anyone else?

Like I said before, everyone wants to point fingers at everyone else instead of looking to themselves why they are not where they want to be.

Thank you McLuvin for expressing my feelings again in an hopefully understanding fashion. 

Why would it? Seriously? Ok.... I'll take the message sent out here down a few levels of civility and sense

'ZOMG DUDE, MY DADDY OR MOMMY WERE BFF WITH MAH CL. I WANTED TO KEEP WHO I WAZ SEEKRIT BUT I TOLD MAH CL. SO HE MAKES ME RH. THEN I WURK IT. AND WURK IT. FINALLY, I GET AUTH. SO I DON'T THINK A NORMAL MADE+ PERSON WITH NO COOL MOMMY OR DADDY CAN IMPROVE IN LAIF.MKAY?'

I am sure you get the point I am trying to make...If not, feel free to probe further. I am here all day.

Yes - you have made my point crystal clear about how people make all sorts of excuses on why they can't be successful.

'ZOMG DUDE, MY DADDY OR MOMMY WERE BFF WITH MAH CL.

Generally speaking, do any of us know what relationship their predecessors had? Was it a buddy one? Perhaps her predecessor worked her (or his) ass off and was in the same position as others who had never been a RH before, and never saw anything from it?

SO HE MAKES ME RH. THEN I WURK IT. AND WURK IT.

Yeah...anyone who has been RH before knows it's not an easy job at all. So yeah, she (and others who have been where she was) had to WORK.

SO I DON'T THINK A NORMAL MADE+ PERSON WITH NO COOL MOMMY OR DADDY CAN IMPROVE IN LAIF.MKAY?

Since you, Tony, and perhaps others either ignored or misheard what was said earlier:

"However, I will note that all it takes is for one of the GF's/bolds to take a chance for you to break those ranks. To the best of my knowledge, my own LHM's (Kattan) bloodline had never been in a position of authority before now but he impressed me massively when we were under Subtle's roof. So much so that I took a chance with him and so far I've been proved right."

"The opportunities are limited, so in my opinion it's as much on your every day mobster to choose the right leader that may just give them their chance as it is on the leader to look for a way to give fresh blood a crack at the big time (on a totally side note, this is why I'm a big believer in Cantona's project... it could benefit both new recruits and leaders themselves get the right people in)."

Are we listening to the same conversation here? Or people just want to have a bitch fest by twisting people's words?

Just a very quick note...

Blaise is spot on with his analogy. People have twisted words around in their heads here or just not FULLY read my original speech.

First off, you're a guy,Blaise? The suit you've got on sure did fool me.

Moving on,Secondly,Where has anyone here made any excuse as to why they aren't wearing a shiny bold suit like Orithiya or a snazzy slantie one like you?

Generally speaking, do any of us know what relationship their predecessors had? Was it a buddy one? Perhaps her predecessor worked her (or his) ass off and was in the same position as others who had never been a RH before, and never saw anything from it?

No. We really don't. Well, considering the fact that Subtle did make her his RH, and in the vast majority of cases... an RH post is not really given because you work your ass off... it's because you're loyal, you're a friend of the CLs bloodline and you have an above average work rate, at least that's how I have known it to work. Hence, the assumption was made.

Yeah...anyone who has been RH before knows it's not an easy job at all. So yeah, she (and others who have been where she was) had to WORK.

My blood has been RH before. Yes, my ancestor had to work. Yes, he had to work quite hard. However, rewards such as being able to just walk upto someone who was annoying you in the HQ and just screaming 'SHUT YOUR MOUTH' quite made up for it. I don't see any reason why someone put in such a position of enviable power should be viewed as a martyr working her ass off for the betterment of the whole world.

Also, I am not really sure you have heard everything that was said 

voila:

So, honestly... in the vast majority of cases I believe that the respected Made+ will remain exactly that. I don't believe that you have much chance of progression.

I don't really think I need to explain this further.

Are we listening to the same conversation here? Or people just want to have a bitch fest by twisting people's words?

Personally? Nah. Not really. Just felt the need to step in and defend a friend who I felt was getting ganged up on. Do you want to have a bitch fest?whatever that means...