No, I think its okay for users (esp those who have found their way into power on their run) to make the rules how they see fit for themselves. Admins getting involved is bullshit.

Why doesn't your position matter in this game? Heave forbid, I thought that was what this game was all about. Clearly I'm wrong. There is fucking restricting on fucking everything of the sort in the shooting and mugging category. No one is holding your God damn hand and telling you that you HAVE to join that family. Not a soul is telling you that you CANT mug someone, you have the option to use it how you please.

A CL asking his crew to not mug each other and the others they're associated with... There is not a fucking thing wrong with that. It makes sense to do to protect those with you the best you can. Just like everything else. Even from an RP angle.

If a customer come into your store with the intentions of hurting it, you see them to the fucking door by words or by force. NO game will allow you to hurt them, I don't care what you think the rules meant, it's the reality of the interpretation.

Damn right, as a CL or business owner I would. That's my choice as the ruler over it. To make the fucking rules I want, not have the Gods tell me how I should and shouldn't do things. That's the God damn nature of this game. Izzy shouldn't be deciding how this game is played, by us, at all. That's too much.

An admin dictating a dictator is bullshit and wrong. That's why they play this game to begin with, so if they ever end up running their own crew, they can make the rules over them how they wish. It's been this way on ANY mafia game, ever.

Izzy should find a way to make the code work for everyone. Or hell, come to an even ground with CLs but he refuses. We will lose more users over an admin dictating rather then CLs making a fucking mugging rule for their city.

Wanna bet on that?

No, he didn't do what he had to do. Or else he would have heard out the majority of people against his word. I don't care if there is 5 of you that want this change implicated, there is obviously more who don't. The activity and vocalization about it is clear enough. There is more against this, than there is supporting it. It's all over the boards and DL.

If he wanted to do things fairly, he should have done like he did with the cap shooters drama. Ask the site, yes or no, in a thread. Count them up and go with the users want. Because frankly, the 5 people that support Izzy stepping on CLs feet, just don't make up the numbers. Sorry.

Just because Izzy asks us to do something he feels is right in his eyes doesn't mean the majority of the people making the rules should do it. That's a fucking mafia game for you. Your rule and run, going by your rules while you're at it.

When users actively try to hurt the game and restrict it's features, I think it's only natural that someone should step in and tell them to quit being cunts. No single player has any right to tell another that they can NEVER use this feature unless they wanna die or get demoted to go elsewhere.

I have a question to pose. This is a business for the admins, this has been established. If I go into a business, let's say Wal-Mart and I stand in front of the register and tell people that they are not allowed to buy cigarettes because I don't agree with smoking, do you think the managers of that store are going to allow me to stand there and do that? No, because they have a business to run. Becoming a CL in this game doesn't give you the power to run the game as an admin. Mugging was put into place because people were being killed for pickpocketing. Would you rather CL's go back to demanding the lives of your members for violating someone's wishes on pickpocketing or let them have the ability to work it out amongst themselves  and get to keep their account? As has been explained, there are plenty of ways to avoid being mugged not to mention everyone that pp's are fully aware of the possible consequences. To ban a game feature from being used affects way more people than the admins ensuring that does not happen.

If I go into a business, let's say Wal-Mart and I stand in front of the register and tell people that they are not allowed to buy cigarettes because I don't agree with smoking, do you think the managers of that store are going to allow me to stand there and do that?

Your question doesn't really work because the whole premise of this game is based on the mafia and playing roles. 

I do not believe that mugging was banned.  It definitely wasn't banned in my district, which has its own godfather.  But even if it were extremely super banned, I think that is completely fine.  If my crew leader wants to ban me from racing for IAs every other Tuesday, that is completely fine.  If my godfather wants to say that everyone in our city needs to have a tattoo calling for Pauly Shore to be the president of the united states, I think that is completely fine.  It is all supposed to be completely fine as long as I allow it to be fine.  If I dont want something to be allowed, I can get a group of like minded Pauly haters together, and I can do something about it.... cause THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME. 

Walmart can sell me the cigarettes, but they cannot dictate whether I am allowed to share with my roommate.  I can throw my cigs into a sewer for all Walmart cares, as long as I buy from Walmart, they are perfectly fine.  I support Walmart's right to change the price of my cigs, or to carry a different brand, but I dont support their attempts to force me to blow smoke rings.

I am comparing the business aspect, which does not make my analogy horribly false. Just because I'm disagreeing with you doesn't make my analogy horribly false.I could have used any business, don't fucking nit-pick.  If you go into any business and try to disturb the way their business is run, cause potential harm or disturbance of their customers, they have the right to step in and rectify that situation. Game or not, it's about making sure the customers can experience anything that is offered.

 Banning you from ia racing one day a week is not the same thing as banning you from completely using the feature. If your Godfather banned you and your city from wacking at all, I'm sure you would have an issue.

No, I think its okay for users (esp those who have found their way into power on their run) to make the rules how they see fit for themselves. Admins getting involved is bullshit.

This is exactly what my problem is with the userbase and why I brought up the discussion of 11 day old CLs or people who come to power because they know someone. It's a whole other conversation, lets not.

Why doesn't your position matter in this game? Heave forbid, I thought that was what this game was all about. Clearly I'm wrong. There is fucking restricting on fucking everything of the sort in the shooting and mugging category. No one is holding your God damn hand and telling you that you HAVE to join that family. Not a soul is telling you that you CANT mug someone, you have the option to use it how you please.

Because a CL is not an admin and it is NOT their fucking game to tear apart or dismantle piece by piece, are you following me? They are a role in the GAME that is all. They do not have the right to hurt the game and then claim innocent and say "I have the power". They fucking don't. You wanna claim RP and in the game...there was someone saying you CANT mug someone, was their not?

A CL asking his crew to not mug each other and the others they're associated with... There is not a fucking thing wrong with that. It makes sense to do to protect those with you the best you can. Just like everything else. Even from an RP angle.

Was he asking them, or telling them they can not do it? Is it how it was with the dueling feature where it was a suggestion asking them to take other steps to resolve and as a last course, duel. Or was it a demand to stop?

Damn right, as a CL or business owner I would. That's my choice as the ruler over it. To make the fucking rules I want, not have the Gods tell me how I should and shouldn't do things. That's the God damn nature of this game. Izzy shouldn't be deciding how this game is played, by us, at all. That's too much.

Do you fail to see the the admins are the "ruler" over this business? The CLs are nothing but a moving part inside of what the admins rule. Is it a hard concept to grasp? You CAN NOT make a rule that BANS A FEATURE from the PUBLIC and in turn LIMITS how the game CAN BE PLAYED. You have no right, regardless of your interpretation of what a CL is or what they have been. You don't like the feature? Start a fucking petition.

An admin dictating a dictator is bullshit and wrong. That's why they play this game to begin with, so if they ever end up running their own crew, they can make the rules over them how they wish. It's been this way on ANY mafia game, ever.

Really? Completely banning features of a game and limiting the way EVERYONE can play it has been allowed? Hurting the way the game is played out and possibly hurting it's growth has been allowed? Then I guess my point is non existent.

Izzy should find a way to make the code work for everyone. Or hell, come to an even ground with CLs but he refuses. We will lose more users over an admin dictating rather then CLs making a fucking mugging rule for their city.

Who banned the feature first? Don't pin this on him for reacting not instigating. Did the CLs bring it to him or force him to take his stance? Lines, don't fucking cross them with your rules and everyone will be fucking happy. This whole fucking debate is some self-centered bullshit.

No, he didn't do what he had to do. Or else he would have heard out the majority of people against his word. I don't care if there is 5 of you that want this change implicated, there is obviously more who don't. The activity and vocalization about it is clear enough. There is more against this, than there is supporting it. It's all over the boards and DL.

I hardly believe that, again set up something that's legit and prove your point. Words are fucking words, I could say it's 120 to 80 in favor, is it though?

If he wanted to do things fairly, he should have done like he did with the cap shooters drama. Ask the site, yes or no, in a thread. Count them up and go with the users want. Because frankly, the 5 people that support Izzy stepping on CLs feet, just don't make up the numbers. Sorry.

Did that ban a feature? Did a CL take an action without searching for a resolve before anything could be done in that instance? No? Ok.

Just because Izzy asks us to do something he feels is right in his eyes doesn't mean the majority of the people making the rules should do it. That's a fucking mafia game for you. Your rule and run, going by your rules while you're at it.

Don't tell me it's a fucking mafia game while sitting here telling me it's alright to disrespect and PP members of a crime syndicate without them reacting. IT'S A FUCKING MAFIA GAME, you can't change the nature of a beast. It's not the CLs game it belongs to the admins and the userbase as a FUCKING WHOLE! it's a very simple concept.

No user did any such thing. Period.

So someone didn't try to completely limit a feature of the game to their liking, thus eliminating people from using it for it's sole purpose?

Some casual user you are :O

I've been sandbagged considering you've been on MR longer the past 2 days than what you claim of being a 'casual user'. At least you're being more active, right?

i didn't read the argument, it's going in circles and becoming more and more dragged out. I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. How about the rest of the userbase?

I understand the concept clearly. It's either the admins way or get the fuck out. That's the basis of it and all you had to say.

So someone didn't try to completely limit a feature of the game to their liking, thus eliminating people from using it for it's sole purpose?

Or else he would have heard out the majority of people against his word

10 people shouting really loud does not constitute a majority.

I've had 8 accounts with over two hundred hours, 4 over 400 and 2 over 600. I still see myself as a casual user, not much else to it.

How about them? (Keep in mind, it's more than just CLs, always good to remember that)

If that's what you take from it, then take it, no sweat off my...

There is more then 10 Cantona. Some are too afraid to even speak up.

"Some are too afraid to speak up"

Do you care to provide any concrete fact beyond anecdotal bullshit, or?

"Some are too afraid to speak up"

Do you care to provide any concrete fact beyond anecdotal bullshit, or?

Were you on IRC when Rianne was banned from IRC for stating "[15:52:56] <Rianne> I'm too scared to type lol [15:52:58] <Rianne> but I'm lolling" about this whole mess?

People are, in fact, terrified to speak up about this. I've personally gotten four different PMs on IRC reminding me that the administration often takes a less-than-tolerant approach towards differing viewpoints.

What do you want me to do? Post their names in fear that they will get lashed out at from an admin or someone else? I'd rather not. Want me to post logs?

You're talking to wrong person to do that. My private chats with others are just that. Private. If either side wishes to speak about this topic, they can. That's the whole point of "The action is yours, the reaction is not". It's not my place to tell them what to do, just like it's not Izzys place to dictate them and their rules. Users should have the right to do whatever they please, say whatever, and at their own pace/time. Pushing them to do something they don't want, isn't what I'm about. But we can still have a rather good convo about the events and I can say that there is more then what show up here, that disagree with CLs being held on what they can and can't do. It's their district to run. That's why they are the leaders.

So I believe what I said is far from bullshit. I don't have to post logs. But if you wish to call me a liar, I'm all ears.

Well, perhaps I phrase things differently than others, but I have been pretty vocal (in public and private) about the way this whole thing has transpired and at no point have I felt 'terrified to speak up'.

Oh is that all she was banned for? Was she making a smart ass sarcastic comment in the middle of a cluserfuck of children who can't respectfully present their argument on DL?

People are afraid to speak up on either side, respectfully presenting an argument is a completely different thing then bashing the fuck out of an admin and bringing up past issues with who the fuck ever.