take a stand use your gun.  there will be consequences but thats what taking a stand is 

Why is this in OOC? Does anyone behind the computer have a problem with what this guy has done?  

Make more of an effort and keep this shit in character so it can actually be discussed properly like Tyrion did. That goes double for people like this guy ^ criticising leaders from the safety of OOC.  

Thank you lronsight for being the only one to actually take the due diligence out of all of you to let me know of this thread. Sadly not everyday do I check every non-NPC obituary to see what people say. I would have replied yesterday, but it actually ended up being a busy day running errands.

Now, my stance on funeral disrespect is that if two characters have a beef with each other for whatever reason, as long as it's not grossly disrespectful a snide remark that we've always seen at the death's of a known person is alright, a little "Looks like I outlived you, prick" or something of that regard I'm not going to care, but if it carries across multiple characters and the way that this was done is not alright. 

Rorschach has mailed me asking for my input on what should be done about this when he first discovered this thread. I spoke to him saying to hold off on anything until after the Godfather meeting which was meant to take place 22:00 on July 22nd (it was cancelled as a majority could not make that time, currently it is to be rescheduled). Reason being for this is that I do want to take a stance on funeral disrespect, but if I'm going to do this then I want to move for it to be recognized across the board what's A) Going to be recognized as proper funeral disrespect, B) Based on the severity of the disrespect how it should be handled based on the offender's rank/status and C) Punishments that serve as deterrents while also helping the offender better himself.

From what I've seen, when members do something that their CL disapproves of, they usually end up demoted (an amount decided on the CL) or just shot to save the trouble. I want uniform standards of how we as a community decide to handle this sort of thing, and any other issues that may arise in the future (If you can think of any, mail me!) and that is why nothing has been done to CookieMonster. On my end we have already taken a look at his potential at representing our district as a captain, but I am waiting for the next Godfather meeting to be scheduled so we can discuss how we as a community should handle both this incident and future incidents as a whole that meets everyone expectations.

Also, Mandalore, call someone out for disrespect, then subsequently disrespect the leadership? Get real. You now have a better glimpse of how we operate from reading this post I would hope but before this you knew nothing. Only opinions and assumptions that can only be obtained by staring intently at a soundproofed closed door. You want information? Why didn't you take the prudence to mail me and ask? I don't bite, worst case scenario is that you'll get a rainbowed reply.

I get the impression that this turning into a witchhunt on CookieMonster, which I understand completely and condone given that he's done it three times with no official response from the district. Honestly though, if you're itching to see something happen to him to satisfy the bloodlust that most of you have you're going to have to wait until some uniform standards are applied so that all "grave pissers" are dealt with in a fair matter that is to everyone's satisfaction, and to make things easier in the future a way to easier report offenders that you see may be from other families/districts to cut through all that political red tape.

I'll be free for most of the day IRL today, so feel free to drop me a mail or post here if you have any other comments/questions for me and I will get back to you as soon as I can.

Personally I don't know CookieMonster so this is no means a witch hunt by me, I am just commenting on something that I feel passionate about.

I appreciate the fact you have come out here and stated your reasons for what has gone on so far. You are in a fortunate or unfortunate position depending how you look at it being at the top of the totem pole.  This game has become regimented with rules governing rules as a Godfather you should punish your members as you see fit not as a consensus agreed by others in the same position. This is where the game is struggling nobody wants to do anything outside the box lets all sit here and play nice every family does the same thing and lives by the same rules and has the same punishment.

If you deem it necessary to punish your member then you should if you don't think he should be punished then he shouldn't. You are the Godfather of your district, you shouldn't have to take the lead off of others.  

Spunky's point reminds me of something I learned in a history class. In the early 20th Century, the "League of Nations" was formed by the victors of the Great War. The U.S., however, refused to join its newly-formed organization. Woodrow Wilson was a tremendous proponent of the League of Nations, and the idea would later form into the United Nations. The reason America declined to join was because it threatened America's "sovereignty". If the U.S. were part of the League of Nations, other nations would have the ability to direct American citizens about how to live their lives, and that's unacceptable.

In that context, it surprises me that this game has reached this point. In the past, "telling a leader how to do his job" was a very serious offense, and CLs tended to be very protective of their HQs and their members. Now, being a CL is pointless. This is such a great example for this point, too, because it's a "victimless" offense. The only person who should be responsible for punishing CookieMonster is Rorschach, and he just defers to his Godfather. Sure, you're supposed to obey your Godfather, but if CLs aren't even responsible for punishing their own members, and we just defer their judgment to the Godfather or the GFC, why even bother being a CL? It's not a position of power, or influence, your name just looks different in the 60 seconds list while you house members for the real leader, your godfather.

But I suppose when leaders don't know how to do their job, someone has to step in and make decisions for them.

Jeddy has clearly proven he is a more than competent Godfather.

There are always more pieces in play than we can see in the streets and he is clearly able to make the decision; but he is in his own way, being overly diplomatic in doing so.

(This is my opinion, not fact)

Denam, are you aware that the mafia is a hierarchical organisation? Perhaps you should read up on Dutch Schultz.

Rorschach, are you aware that it's a hierarchical organization? Hierarchy implies an ordering; a system of power that extends pyramidally. That's not what I see. I see Jeddy, and I see his district. There's two levels to your "hierarchy". You didn't punish CookieMonster because there isn't a hierarchy. It's just a top and a bottom, and you're not on top.

If there is a single responsibility that I thought could never be stripped from a legitimately authed CL, it's the responsibility to discipline your own men. Without it, you're just a bold name with a stat boost and nothing more.

At this point, I don't even care whether or not you punish him for what he did. There's no wrong answer. But it has to be you that punishes or pardons him. You make that decision. He's worked for you all his life. He's earned, trained, and fought for you. Deferring that decision to someone else just shows how little you seem to care about him. Either that, or you're afraid to make a decision for yourself, and would rather have the backing of Jeddy and the GFC when the community goes into an uproar over it.

Either way, it's sad, and it shows the degradation of the title "Crewleader".

Oh so you have to talk to you Godfather on how to run you crew? My godmother put me in this position because she knew that i can handle anything that came my way. Rorschach if you cant handle YOUR resposibility without confiring to your godfather you should not have taken the position of crewleader.

I find it a shame that cookie has been let lose dragging staten into the sewer with his blatant disrespect that went unnoticed intill both you and jeddy where pointed in the right direction. And still nothing has been done oh how this world is going down the sewer at an fast rate.

It's easy for people to make judgements on situations they only see from a public perception.

What Jeddy and Rorschach do with their members and district is of absolutely no concern for anyone not in that district/crew. If you have an issue with the way they handle THEIR business, then do something about it.

Easy for some people to hide behind the protection afforded to them because of certain memberships and then bash other leaders. Be interesting to see if they piped up so much were they on their own and in charge of their own district with no help. 

I have issues with people that don't type properly, doesn't mean I come out in public and start bashing for them for it. 

You guys run your crew how you want and they will run theirs. And for those not in leadership positions, I'm sure if the opportunity arose you could teach your own members how to handle themselves in funeral homes. 

I understand your point, Desmand, and my comments are purely based on the information Jeddy and Rorschach have offered. Not really sure what else to go on, if not that.

As for "hiding behind protection," this is OOC. I'm speaking as a player, not a character. I don't have "protection" out of character. The purpose of this forum is to discuss game matters and events as players rather than the roles we play. I'm not trying to openly bash either of them, I'm just speaking to the concept of district and crew sovereignty and how it has changed tremendously in the past few years.

That being said, you're exactly right. They should run their crew how they want to. That's all I've been trying to say, actually. Why would you defer to a GFC ruling on how to punish your own crew members? Just seems odd to me.

Denam has hit the nail on the head it is up to them how they run their crew/district so there is no need to ask the GFC how they would act on it. Like I said before it leads to the place being boring if everyone has the same rules and the same punishments.

Desmand you talk about in game protection but if CookieZombie wasn't IWP I would imagine that he would of been killed by now but that is just an assumption. Out of interest, I don't expect an answer, if this was your member how would you of acted?

Honestly Spunky I don't really think that CookieMonsters protection levels has any baring on the punishments he may or may not receive. I gave my own thoughts on funeral disrespect in another street thread that was made, however as someone who has called a person a "Moron" in their funeral home, it would be incredibly hypocritical of me to say that I am strictly against all forms of funeral disrespect. As with all things in this game, it's a case by case basis. 

Despite this being OOC Denam, I would say that with the introduction of additional XP being gained for people that speak, the idea that we are all "out of character" here fairly redundant. In my opinion at least you can no longer distinguish or justify comments as a "player" and not a "character" around these parts. 

Desmand, if you have an issue with how out of character receives additional XP, then do something about it. Write up a suggestion in the proper forum. 

I've discovered I really enjoy being apart of discussions in out of character. It gives me a chance as a player to discuss with others things that are going on in game. I can get straight to my out of character views and can speak with people I don't usually speak with and listen to their thoughts I wouldn't usually get to hear because of either in character reasons, irc private rooms, friendship circles, etc. I see a line between in character and out of character, because here I speak from my irc name and in game I speak from my characters name. I'm sorry you are having a hard time telling the difference between the two Desmand, maybe you should ask yourself if you speak differently from forum to forum. 

I have to agree with Desmand to a certain degree there. I would say the lines have been blurred by the fact your character receives a form of benefit from having your views aired in an out of character forum, this making it rather ambiguous whether it is separate or not from the character itself.

This isn't why I made another thread on the matter in character though, I simply hadn't spotted this one.

And on Desmand's other comment about his own past funeral disrespect, I was at the time equally disappointed and I'm fairly sure others were too, Desmand isn't the only high ranked figure to have committed such infractions though and that is why certain users are referring to the overall drop in standards, not just the fact that one person has committed this act. I doubt had CookieMonster been a one off, that there would be such outrage. Of course the main focus on CookieMonster is due to in part his refusal to accept the behaviour is reprehensible to many and seems to think its fine to continue this behaviour, as evidenced by the fact he has been disrespectful at seemingly 3 funerals now.

Now you could of course say that since he wasn't punished (to my knowledge) for the previous funeral comments, that perhaps he was given carte blanche to act in this manner and thus he would be right to believe he isn't at fault; but I still couldn't understand how any person can stand in front of so many people that are clearly disgusted at that behaviour and still try to maintain he has done nothing wrong.

Thats just my opinion though. Whether thats TyrionLannister or Warrior.

Desmand, if you have an issue with how out of character receives additional XP, then do something about it. Write up a suggestion in the proper forum. 

I've discovered I really enjoy being apart of discussions in out of character. It gives me a chance as a player to discuss with others things that are going on in game. I can get straight to my out of character views and can speak with people I don't usually speak with and listen to their thoughts I wouldn't usually get to hear because of either in character reasons, irc private rooms, friendship circles, etc. I see a line between in character and out of character, because here I speak from my irc name and in game I speak from my characters name. I'm sorry you are having a hard time telling the difference between the two Desmand, maybe you should ask yourself if you speak differently from forum to forum.

Not sure where I said I had an issue with that being the case? I simply stated that additional XP was now given in the OOC forum by the admins which would suggest that things said here obviously have a baring on a players character. Thanks for letting me know though that I can make a suggestion thread in the proper forum, I don't think I have ever been to that forum. Care to point me in the right direction?

I also don't recall saying I had a hard time differentiating between the two forums either. Evidently that must be the case though since you've pointed it out to me. So thank you again for doing that, such selfless acts are a credit to the community. 

If you aren't sure what sarcasm is either, Desmand, I'll be happy to explain it to you.

I struggle with recognising it Hamface.