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| Witnesses on active real life characters only | Started by: Squishy on Aug 30, '17 03:12 |
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What do you guys think about removing witness statements on all NPCs and IAs? Witnesses would be generated for real characters only who are not IA. Upside, it may remove the fear out of those who train because thats what they do to enjoy the game. Downside, it may remove the fear out of those who train because thats what they do to enjoy the game. Downside, it may create more fear out of those who want to mitigate possible future risks. |
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| Well, considering I posted this idea a little while ago, I'm totally in favor. I know those in charge may not like it because they use witness statements to help them judge people's gun sizes, but on the flip side that can easily be used against them once they are dead so this ultimately may help them in the future. I think witness statements are important for real active player characters to try and track down Rogues, but I don't see a reason why we need witness statements for things like IAs. | |
| Reply by: Rainmaker at Aug 30, '17 03:20 | |
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May increase spys and double agents. +1 |
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| Reply by: Seraph at Aug 30, '17 04:17 | |
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I'm all for this. |
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| Reply by: Indubitably at Aug 30, '17 09:50 | |
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I don't want to have to sit in jail for the full 10 min |
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| Reply by: Romance at Aug 30, '17 10:16 | |
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It also removes the ability to make 5K per when selling to the warden, which isn't a lot when you're on the upper end of the game, but it's a fair amount to newer folks. I'm assuming there are a lot more witness statements for MIA and NPCs wacked than for actual PCs, so that's a bit of change that isn't circulating (ie: harder for newer people to pay taxes.) Otherwise, I can throw a +1 at this idea. |
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| Reply by: LuckyLucy at Aug 30, '17 11:40 | |
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The fact that witness statements can also be purchased sort've negates that. Many people I know don't sell them anymore to try and prevent them from getting into the hands of people who use them to track guns. Maybe not new players, that's true, but the point still stands. And there's plenty of other ways to get out of jail Romance lol. Izzy asked for ways to instill hope. People I know are discouraged by the witness statement tracking that's done by this group. This is a way to help negate that. Hopefully others can come up with solutions to balance things. I get frustrated when people shoot down ideas without offering any thoughts of their own. For example, if jail is a concern why not do something similar to what was done when launching them? Make it so that you can use an equal amount of cash to bribe the guards as you can use credits. I agree the loss of the $5000 per statement for newer players is a concern. How can we balance that? What are other ways for new players to generate income? As a sponsor, I typically give my associate starting money to help them and teach them about micro trades between districts. Is that something that's encouraged in crews? Do crew leaders actually teach people how to be sponsors, or do they just say hey some people males when they do jobs? I don't expect everyone to agree with a suggestion, but I think if everybody who disagreed tried to come up with ideas of their own, we'd be having a much more fruitful conversation. |
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| Reply by: Rainmaker at Aug 30, '17 11:50 | |
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* send people mails It's early >.> |
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| Reply by: Rainmaker at Aug 30, '17 11:52 | |
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I was originally in favour of this. However, one of the current checks on a lot of people is that "they aren't shooting". This would remove that check which keeps a lot of people alive and would likely lead to a lot more people being treated with suspicion unnecessarily in the future. I'm not sure that is a good thing. |
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| Reply by: LarryLongNeck at Aug 30, '17 11:54 | |
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| I am all in favor for this | |
| Reply by: The_Kid at Aug 30, '17 12:02 | |
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Exactly Larry, you just proved to me why this is necessary. I filled out a shot report recently. I checked that I wasn't going to be shooting and would just be a proer. During the recent Durden spawn I thought about shooting some durden's just for the fun of it. But I was terrified that if a witness statement of me was caught then I would be accused of lying on my shot report and would be killed without question, as we've seen happen many times before, especially recently in LV. So, I decided just not to shoot, which takes an aspect of fun in this game away from me, unfairly. Of course I can speak to my crew leader and change my shot report response, but that's not really the point. I shouldn't have to go through those extremes to make sure that my crew leader knows that I'm not lying, in order to be able to enjoy an aspect of the game that many people enjoy. Shooting a few durden's during a during spawn doesn't mean that I'm actively building a gun. But we've seen such paranoia lately that anything is possible, and I know that you'll deny it, but I wouldn't put it past someone to say "oh look, she said she wasn't shooting but here's some witness statements, she's lying go shoot her." Honestly I don't think you should even be allowed to ask that question on a shot report, but that's a different conversation for a different day. |
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| Reply by: Rainmaker at Aug 30, '17 12:12 | |
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If you think you're seeing such paranoia at the moment, how do you think removing one of the checks on people which keeps them alive is going to improve things?
Not seeing how this helps. |
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| Reply by: LarryLongNeck at Aug 30, '17 12:34 | |
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| I see your point, but I think it's a double-edged sword. I think they do more harm than good in the long run, and we're all entitled to our opinions about it. However, I do appreciate that you take the time to actually explain your opinion. | |
| Reply by: Rainmaker at Aug 30, '17 12:39 | |
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I agree with the intent and maybe a bit less with the implementation -- but it does seem necessary. I do think Larry's example is a bit off base. Right now, both scenario's will get you shot so I'm not so sure it would make a difference. If this helps some people enjoy the game more than I fully support it. Right now the game has become a bit limited for people. They are stepping on the Made Man promotion to make that impossible to achieve for non-new returning 'rogues'. Shooting is also very risky as you will find yourself on the wrong side of a spreadsheet calculation. So then what? Just earn, don't use your gun and shut your mouth :P I am fully aware that these regimes have existed in the past and will in the future. My beef isn't so much that they use these tactics...I mean they played hard and won...they can do whatever the hell they want. It's more that they don't really give anything back to the community at large. They don't come to the streets ever -- IRC is like a wasteland. They just sit on WA. It just seems so dull. Larry seems to take brunt of these arguments as he is literally the only 'insider' or whatever you want to call it that is willing to come to the streets and discuss. He has also made some efforts to improve business districts etc. I honestly applaud that. Ahh nostalgia! |
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| Reply by: Falkor at Aug 30, '17 13:04 | |
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Great idea The main 99 percent of players will benefit from this while the 1 percent will not like it. Falkor makes good points. |
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| Reply by: Tortuga at Aug 30, '17 14:05 | |
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Don't really agree with this being implemented, for the same reason Larry brought up. This will lead to even more paranoia and unnecessary shots. However if it does get put in, to off-set the 5k/statement that newer plays make, we could potentially just make the WS's that would get sent out, 10k? |
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| Reply by: HenriDucard at Aug 30, '17 14:10 | |
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Not really sure how you could increase the paranoia. It is already at 11. |
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| Reply by: Falkor at Aug 30, '17 14:13 | |
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Have you not been reading? By removing the ability to check whether someone is being truthful about not shooting, it will increase paranoia. I'm not sure how that was so hard to understand the first few times it was brought up. |
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| Reply by: HenriDucard at Aug 30, '17 14:14 | |
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They're doing that anyway though. Since the "underground" has been pushing people not to send up witness statements and not to sell them, they've gotten a reduction in witness statements to the point that it's definitely throwing off their counts. If not, LV wouldn't make such a big deal about having to send witnesses statements directly to Disorder every week. So now they're just going through and killing people based on age anyway, no matter how much they deny it. If they let this push their paranoia up, well, then they keep harming the game. Larry literally just admitted that to live, PEOPLE HAVE TO STOP USING ONE FEATURE OF THE GAME. Why does no one see a problem with that?! That's the shit that makes people feel hopeless. At the end of the day it helps them in the future too. This is a tactic that has been and can easily be used against them in the future. People like Angy and Tobias and First, who shoot 15-20 times a day, drop a whole lot of witness statements, even on full stealth. So really, you'd think the current regime would be in favor of this just as much as anyone else. |
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| Reply by: Rainmaker at Aug 30, '17 14:23 | |
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Trust me when I say there's no shortage of Witness Statements, Rainmaker. Trust. |
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| Reply by: HenriDucard at Aug 30, '17 14:24 | |
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Minimum $20,000
