"Do you even know what a Godfather is The_truth? It's the highest rank you can be. To think that he's taking orders from anyone at such a level is ludicrous. He doesn't have to answer to anyone, especially not you." Mandy takes a drag off her cigarette before continuing. "I've seen a lot of whining and bitching lately, very unbecoming of a mobster. Why don't you people take up a hobby or something, like knitting. The_truth go knit me a fucking sweater I'm getting cold." She yawns as it's quite boring talking to a corpse. "Well since it looks like you blew your own brains out I'll wrap this up. Couldn't you have picked a name more appropriate so that when you speak it didn't make your name an oxymoron?"

People like The_Truth live in conspiracy fantasy worlds, and believe such fiction, because it makes them feel smarter than everyone else.

Sadly, 99% of the time they are straight up delusional, even with pure and total facts shown to them.

Hey Walter-White,

You just made two assumptions there. That people like ‘the_truth’ think that their conspiracy theories, or observations, make them feel smart and that they are wrong most of the time.

Because the first assumption is egarding something irrelevant to anyone, we can disregard that comment. Your second assumption is worth investigating though. Apparently “pure and total facts” are shown to them - being the_truth and the likes - which would make it insane to believe any other story.

Can you enlighten me about the truths brought to the open that show that he, she, them are delusional? Without mocking Godfather Tobias, it is no secret that his talents aren’t in the verbal area, so it’s obvious he had some help delivering this speech. Which is perfectly fine by the way, no one should be ashamed, nor mocked of, because they depent on the skills and attention of others. 

Anyway, other than that, it’s also no secret that the notorious identity commonly referred to as ‘First’ has proven to have an enormous influence within our world in recent times.

I don’t think there is any practical reason to attack Godfather Tobias with suspicion and insults at this time, other than displaying discontent. I also don’t think there is, nor have I seen, any obvious information that makes that people like ‘the_truth’ are in the wrong.

There is more indication that our dear Godfather’s actions have been influenced by this mysterious ‘First’, or other parties, then there is any indication that he acts as a separate entity with his own goals and motives.

I gladly stand corrected though if you help me point to the evidence that shows differently. If these pure and total facts are presented to the masses it would surely remedy a lot of discontent, wouldn’t you think?

Mandy listens to Walter closely and nods to herself. Then turns her attention to JackRoover and his thoughts on the subject. "Wait a minute JackRoover." She speaks up after Jack had finished. "I think I see what you are trying to get at, but where is the_truth's evidence? How can you asked for that, when he could have just made up this himself? Why is it up to Walter to prove The_truth wrong, and not the_truth to prove himself right? I hope you get what I'm saying. Please do share with us all if can prove anything." She smiles and puts on her hand knitted sweater, as it's getting colder now as the night gets late.

That’s a very good question, MandyMammories. I agree with you that those who have an opinion should be able to back that up with arguments. In this conversation however, Walter-White didn’t ask for the reasons for the_truth’s statements. He simply said the_truth was delusional and there are clear facts to back that up.

That alone for me is reason to ask Mr. White, to back that very statement up with proof. Because that’s what you do when you wonder about things. Mr. White could have done the same to the_truth, if he were open for possible new facts he didn’t know about. He didn't care for the_truth to proof his right, he simply knew he was wrong. This thing isn’t my argument, but I like to have insights in all the information that is available. Based on some of the following I think I can see where the_truth's statements are based on, hence I didn't ask for any clarification on that.

Reading through reported occurrences of Tobias’ public appearances, it isn’t strange to suspect he had someone help write this speech for him. Given that Mr. Smith, - commonly known to be an alias for who is referred to as ‘First’ - has been provided with a grave by City Hall shows the man had influence and belonged to a group who exercised their influence beyond the grave. The death of the late Bunny is a result of that, rumoured to have been shot by Tobias, who many believe to have been involved with the death of other crewleaders. In this very speech Tobias looked back and said that he wasn’t in charge of many of the decisions, but merely filled a role within that administration.

Now there are a lot of if’s and else’s here, but all this paired with commonly accepted history of our world I personally don’t think that what the_truth says is too far fetched. That is why I didn’t ask the the_truth to further explain, like anyone could have tried, were they interested.

I’m completely unaware of any clear facts available that show the_truth is wrong. And I am interested in those facts and this is why I ask for Walter-White to share these facts. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to back-up the_truth’s statements or anything. I don’t see the value in what he tried to bring here, so I won’t participate on that level. My own involvement within this place is pretty low, so I won’t claim any truths myself. I just work with the patterns and information that is available.

With that said, do you think it’s reasonable I ask for these facts that Mr. White talks about, Mandy?

Says the ignorant child who throws insults and tantrums when things don't go his way. 

What a joke you are daehgib.

Likewise Walter. Ever since I joined this world, although at scarse moments, we have been in good contact. Now this is the first obvious moment were we probably disagree on things. And guess what, that's no problem. It's really expected to happen when mature people join in conversation that at some point they simply disagree on things.

In that sense, I don't think the rank or status of any person should really matter when they question things. While I wouldn't communicate in the way that the_truth did, let's assume that I was the one that made those same assumptions. Let's also assume that I did in a bit more fashionable way, showing respect to those higher up in the hierachy of this thing of ours.

Given all that, how would you respond to that, Walter?
Your latest remarks are perhaps valid; "So what if there is an outside influence?" But that's a whole separate discussion. The thing is, that someone presented something as fact that many will probably see the merit off. You countered that with another supposed fact that is to me, and probably to others when honest, is less commonly known.

Anyhow, within your last two additions to this debate you seemed to have changed your conviction of the_truth being delusional, towards him possibly being true, but now you just wonder about how that actually matters. While that latter is a thing to further discuss, moving away from the first means we have to retract the idea that the_truth is by default 'delusional'. I'm not saying he isn't, but there doesn't appear to be any clear evidence that he is. 

Anyhow, as said. That is no problem at all. It's easy to put forth an idea and have it come across as the truth. But that's why feedback exists. It helps remove flaws. And that is what we should have beyond this very discussion. We should have feedback on everything, by people with new insights and fresh ideas. If TylerDurden is cruel, let's have community feedback that he should alter his ways. If Tobias is influenced by Henry Ford, but we rather want him to be inspired by Nicolas Tesla, let's make that known to him. If I'm an absolute idiot who is disrespectful towards my fellow Made Man, please tell me. Constructive critisicm is how we improve.

To summarize.. 

Nah, I'm not gonna waste my time going back and forth on a topic that has no point to it. I've seen 1000's of these guys be born and then kill themselves after shouting. If they had balls they would do it on a life that mattered, but they don't.

So what if there is an outside influence? Is discussing and/or arguing about it really going to do anything? Why would I need to prove anything when I am the one being jumped on for commenting on a topic STARTED with only accusations and zero proof to it's merit.

So what if Tobias had helping writing a statement? I don't see why you are trying to amplify and stir the pot, when I doubt there is actually anything in said pot.

I respect Jack and his writing, that's all I have to say for now.

Ok Jack, let me hear your opinion on what needs to change.

That's not the point Walter-White.

I have plenty of ideas for change. If those who can make change create a platform to contribute ideas for change, I'll happily join in. Other than that, it's fairly easy to research what I will probably think needs to change in terms of attitude and culture. Aside from just being a shouter, I actually have proven to have ideas to implement, regardless of their longterm success. 

My main point here however was to either learn from you how Tobias is not influenced by this so-called 'First' or any other parties. And if you can't provide these "clear facts".. then I just want to make clear that we can't dismiss lower ranks like the_truth by default. The fact that someone doesn't carry the biggest torch doesn't mean they don't deserve to be seen. 

The hierachical situation within our culture comes with it's differences, that we should acknowledge. But the context beyond hierachy should allow for a more appreciable environment for people, especially if a lot of patterns and information point to them possibly being correct in their observations. 

Ok.. I still haven't seen any "facts" or "evidence" from you or anyone. Just because someone can see a pattern, doesn't solidify his argument.

Look, you guys' might be right, perhaps there is a couple hands behind the curtain. Does me, or anyone else for that matter acknowledging that, really do or change anything?

But just because I thought I saw a leprechaun, doesn't mean I actually saw one.

While we have no idea that acknowledgement by you, or others will change anything. It might. Hey, at this point we aren't even discussing whether the outside influence is good or bad. We, or perhaps just me, are just verifying whether it's legit to call people delusional. Well, with just the facts from this conversation I think we can conclude that the_truth wasn't delusional per say. Again, he might be a fucking idiot all the same, but we didn't prove that, so he just as well might have been spot on.

You are right that I didn't prove anything, nor was that really my case. I'm not on the_truth's team here. That's not my argument. If someone states that 2 and 2 make 5, I'm gonna question that regardless of whether I care about the subject to begin with.

But in general, would acknowledgement change anything? By you, no. By John Doe? No. By Jane Doe? No. By the masses. Yes, it might well be.
If teachers would tell our kids that 2 and 2 makes up 5 and no-one acknowledges the error in that, our kids might end up believing that. But if the people start pointing out that it's simply wrong we can either educate our teachers that they are wrong and they'll adjust. Or if they fail to adjust and the majority doesn't want these people to teach us bullshit, they should remove these teachers from their positions of power.

The technicalities of that is, again, another discussion. But I think the metaphor is clear enough to explain that acknowledgement of an issue or the ignorance of people does make a difference in where a community moves towards.

I didn't know it was really an issue to deny something, when no evidence was put forward. Walter didn't make a claim he only denied the claim. Walter is under no obligation to prove what the_truth said was false. For example if the_truth said that unicorns exist. Can I prove they don't? Of course I can't, there is no way to prove that. The same thing applies here. When you make a claim you are the one obligated to prove it, the_truth failed to.

Reading through reported occurrences of Tobias’ public appearances, it isn’t strange to suspect he had someone help write this speech for him.

If this is true, I'm told this is common practice and not something to be ashamed of.

Given that Mr. Smith, - commonly known to be an alias for who is referred to as ‘First’ - has been provided with a grave by City Hall shows the man had influence and belonged to a group who exercised their influence beyond the grave.

There were a lot of people taken that day by "City Hall". Does that mean that they are all somehow still directly influencing what goes on in a current Godfathers mind?

The death of the late Bunny is a result of that, rumoured to have been shot by Tobias, who many believe to have been involved with the death of other crewleaders.

Even things widely believed to true are not. Just because something is believed, is not a form of evidence.

In this very speech Tobias looked back and said that he wasn’t in charge of many of the decisions, but merely filled a role within that administration.

I will admit I don't know who was making decisions then, but that doesn't prove who is making the decisions now.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to back-up the_truth’s statements or anything. I don’t see the value in what he tried to bring here, so I won’t participate on that level.

I don't think that is the reason you are here at all Mister Roover, we are just having a conversation.

She lets the boys banter back and forth, a smile gracing her face the entire time. During a moment of silence she looks at Walter-White and speaks with as much respect for him she can muster, which, honestly, isn't much...

Thousands? THOUSANDS? Dude, seriously? "I've seen 1000's of these guys be born and then kill themselves after shouting." Statements such as this just prove daehgib correct in calling you a numpty, well, almost correct... Personally, I think you are a fucking numpty. What the fuck planet do you live on? Out of the entire population here today you are the one talking out of his ass more than Tobias did in "his" reasoning for the removal of the citizens of Philly. 

You're an adorable little n00blet. I want to pinch your cheeks and shake your face around until you cry you're so adorable. Have you thought in purchasing stocks in a toilet paper company? Might I suggest looking into purchasing or starting a lip balm company? Is that a smudge of brown on your nose? 

Do yourself a favour, quit before you make more of an ass of yourself. Silly little child.

She pats daehgib on the shoulder and wishes him luck before toddling off to find a newspaper to swat at little children with.

Why are you so angry Pixelicious? Please go see a shrink for your issues.

Thanks!

Wow! My vision keeps getting better with all of these crazy people showing up.

Now, I have to go cook some of the best meth this country has ever seen, some of you should do yourself a favor and buy some.

Let me know if you want a coupon to use for your order, money is very important to me.

-W.W - $