That is very true Neville. As some people's "best" is not as helpful to the CL as some other peoples "best", So should these people be held back because they couldn't do as well as some other people even though they have tryed as hard if not harder than the other person? Now to add to this, Requirments for get your button can be off putting for some people. Make then lose hope in being able to get the Made Man position.

GrapeJelly stands up. He looks around and smiles. He notices some familiar faces, faces that he did not think he would see in the streets talking about such things.

The notion that a person is to be accepted into a family isn't a stretch for us to consider. In fact, most of us dream of the day. The day we can wear our suits proud. To know whether or not someone deserves their suit? Now, that is the true question. So, lets start at the begging.

We were all thugs one day. New. Fresh. Innocent if you will. We steal some purses. Nothing big time. Big enough to catch the eye of the local Wise Guy trying to get in with the boss. So, he approches you. Offers you a one time job. Get it right and the world is yours. Your name gets passed up and next thing you know you are working for a Made Man. You get familiar with your surroundings and you make some money for yourself.

After you've been working for this Made Man for a while, you've shown what it takes, its time to become a made man of your own. To serve the family. What did you do to get to this place?

You've shown respect. Always putting your family first, even before yourself.

You've made money. Doing whatever it takes to make the family prosper.

You've shown honor. Always speaking with the best intensions when it comes to family.

You've done what you had to do. You learned about your boss. You've seen what your boss wants from a family member and you've shown those qualities.

Of course there are your average qualities that all bosses look for. Each boss has their own personality. Their own indiviual wants and needs. They will find people who fit those needs and if you are lucky enough it just might be you. So put your head down word hard and never forget the most important thing there is in our world. Family.

In my opinion, a made man or higher, must have the skills/abilities that are seen fit for whichever family they are working for.  If the boss decides that the made person is pulling their weight, or bringing something to the table so to speak, then it is clear that person should be given their button.  If the member provides no use to the family or boss, then the decision to promote them should be no.

I think it is up to each boss to decide which person deserves the made button within their own family.  And there maybe several different reasons for a member having the boss' respect.  Whether they have the "necessary" skills (which there are many differing skills) or entertainment value, or just flat out earn the boss money.  I don't think there HAS to be one skill that is necessary, and I do believe specializing in one skill may be what's best for the crew to begin with.  So in short, each button should be a case by case scenario...and only the boss should be the one to judge who deserves it and who doesn't.

Let's not forget, a Made Man represents his family and city, why shouldn't they be expected to have all the skills down before holding such a rank?

Great public speaker, but poor earnings, alright, less talking and more working please.

Great earnings, but very quiet, alright, tell me more about yourself? you have been here for a few weeks now and no one really knows you, why are you so quiet? got something to hide?

Great earnings, great activity in the streets and HQ, great knowledge of the world around him, why shouldn't he be promoted?

To me, I wouldn't promote anyone past Wise Guy without having at least a little of all the skills, after all, if they screw up, it's my arse on the line, not just there's, as representatives of my family, I want to make sure my family is looked upon with respect, not horror of some Made Man who doesn't know what the hell is going on.

Being made is not something I, or anyone else takes lightly. Being good at only one thing is not good enough to make the cut. I mean if you were earning like one million or more a week that could possible cover for a lack in something else, but being well rounded as a mafioso is the key. Also, a deep understanding of the candidate needs to be established. Trusting the associate to not back stab you or do something that could potentially hurt the family is important. Lastly, the associate needs to understand what being made truly is. It is being part of a family. Sure, they might have thought they were family at wise guy and below because they talked to people in the upper structure, but a made man is truly family. Being made is being able to teach others as well. They need to show leadership skills so that they may bring in associates. Talking in the streets to people in a proper manner, and actually elaborating on things is important. You dont want a made man that barely talks above a whisper in the crowds. That man/woman needs to at least be known in the streets and bars, and even better known by the family.  Diego made a great point as well though. In the end it really comes down to the CL. Advice is given by his trusted men, but he will make the final decision. So to all those wise guys that cant seem to step up, do your crimes, sell your drugs, break people out of jail, talk to people in the streets, and for GOD'S SAKE DONT BITCH IF YOU HAVENT BEEN MADE YET. ITS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT! Thanks :)

What willicicci said!!

Very well put my friend, I agree totally.

Wait, having said that, it's not just about talking with other people in the streets, it's about making your own conversation too, it shows you as a person in a whole different light, it shows initiative, creativity and the ability to speak as a Mafioso in the crime world.

Thank you my friend. I know the subject floats around ever week or so, but it is only recently I have really voiced my opinion about it.

True Assassin, the amount of brain dead people that follow crowds i have seen out here. "I agree, what they done was wrong". well DURRR how about you come and and say your opinion and explain it. I mean start a conversation, put effot in when your speaking. Don't stand there like a zomibe "umm i agree".

Laughs to himslef in a unusual way.

I can be funny sometimes.

Many of the same stories come and go so often they get boring, like the how Bloodline Hunting is wrong, Member Whoring is wrong etc ..but they only get old because so many people repeat other replies time and time over again, I rather enjoy the speeches on Made Men because the replies change everytime and it shows a great deal of difference in opinions.

Now that you have finally decided to speak out, do not stop, you're already showing nice and valid points ;)

Being new on the the soap box corner Little-Rap attacts the crowds attention by banging two trash lids together.

People the world  honoring men (and women) at this level has become a hazy thing to me. It use to be that families use to have a grand stucture (so my grandfather said) and the lower stucture jumped at their call.

Now it seems to me that we are all kind of complasint ... What I mean by this is that even though families still have the structure no one is enforcing family rules.

Don't get me wrong we have good strong families and many good people but we have lost the ability to train and mentor the new kids of the block, They should be the squad leaders and learn the team building efforts of our world.

When you get to the upper stucture of a family we should be used as muscle and guidance to those that are willing to learn the ropes.

Rap looks around and hopes no one will take offence to what he has said ... after all it is just his opinoin.

Skills are irrelevant to a rank you hold. Would you rather have a respectful street speaker or an unloyal shooter? A dedicated earner or a dishonourable mentor? Skills shouldn't have any bearing on being given your button since any man can be skillful in his own way, but without his qualities he is nothing but a mere Gangster. You ask if after a man has gained the qualities expected of him, should he also have skills to impress or be expected to have skills? The truth is every man has a skill, some more subtle than others but the answer is no he should not have to provide proof of any skill he may or may not have.

A man's traits whether they be many or few are what make him important to a family, a mans qualities are what make him a part of that family.

Mr Fletcher
When you say a man shouldn't have to provide proof of his skills, surely that doesn't mean his family are suppose to just promote him and hope for the best?

I agree with everything you said other than that last statement, it seems very unfair to expect respect within your family if you are hiding your talents from them?, if people want respect from their family heads, how do they expect to get it if they are withholding quite vital information about themselves?

Outside the family, yes, to anyone in the family under the rank of Made Man, then yes, the information has nothing to do with them, but otherwise, I believe that certain information should be shared with those acquired with the correct position within the family.

I completely agree with Fletcher on his last comment.  And another thing that I think some of us are forgetting is that this is the mafia.  Earning cash above all is why we got ourselves in this thing of ours to begin with.  Some people begin to place to much emphasis on "skills".  What kind of skills exactly? The ability to swiftly take out a rival earner?  Not all of us are hitmen...nor should we be expected to be.  Of course hitters are needed, but they don't need to be everybody.  In fact, someone who makes his way up in the mob world without using his gun shows much more "skill" then some fool with aim.

And Assassin, I agree with you that a man should provide proof of his skills to his boss.  But I believe his skills are more so earning cash, which allows for greater protection for the boss and everyone in family.  He also must prove his abilities to stay low-key and keep himself as well as his family out of danger.  These things are proof on their own, nothing to show anyone.  Now, if you are a main hitter for your family...then obviously your skills must be demonstrated for your boss. 

Well, that's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

Diego, sir,
When it comes down to running a family, there is a whole lot more than just earning money, I few of my members proved that only just a few days ago, one top earner, turned out to be plotting a rogue crew to cause mayhem, it proves many things in my eyes, as an RHM and having a father who was a former leader, you don't trust people by how many drug runs they can do in one day, or how many times a day they speak to you.

But hey, even with that, how much can you really trust someone in the Mafia world? it's all about money, business and power, so who would you trust? - There's very few people in this world I could put my hand on my heart and say "Yes, I would die for them, just like they would for me" - Although my family line has been very wrong in the past with friends, best friends as they were, people we loved, respected and would die for, the people who were so quick to kill my fathers to get them out the way during war, and yes, war is war, family first, I guess I am just weak when it comes to close friends, I could never kill one, no matter the situation. During war, there are plenty of Hitters to kill, I'll choose of of the others, not a friend, I'll get someone else to do it, so therefore, I'm not betraying my family by not taking out a threat, I get another friend to kill a friend and I kill one of their friends, complicated, eh?

Back to the main point, anyone in my family that thinks they can get promoted based purely on their earnings is very much mistaken.

I agree, I guess my comment DID come off as stating earning is the end all, be all.  Not exactly what I mean't.  I do think earning money is one of the most important things in a family though. 

Another part of my comment mentioned the abilities to stay low-key and keep yourself, as well as, your family out of danger.  Clearly, betraying your boss is not a good example of this.  I believe if you can earn your boss money and keep your family in good standing, then you are a big asset to the family.  Not everyone should HAVE to be a hitman to be considered for getting their button.  There have been plenty of family heads who couldn't hit the broad-side of a barn...yet they effectively led their families.  These types of "skills", more like business man type skills, can make a person go further than just having a good gun.  These are the skills I feel ARE necessary to becoming made.  And of course, earning lots of cash :)

I feel every made man must know the basics. To illustrate my point with words fairer then my own, here is an excerpt from my father’s journal:

A Made Man must know the following things to be worthy of his position as a full member of the Family. He or she must know how to use the gun, either in the capacity as a hitter or as a proer, take the most advantageous drug sales, and be able to represent themselves with both Honor and Respect in our common Streets.

A lack of Knowledge and the most basic of skill in those areas spells may disaster for the family. Either in times for war, times of peace, or times of conflicting emotions. As Made Men are the start of your true family, despite what bleeding heart leaders may say.

Never degenerate the rank by promoting the loyal but incompetent and never let rank be a fast track. Expect your enemies and current friends to follow what I have said, even if they themselves are incompetent for it is also unwise to underestimate.

Ultimately, the earlier you begin the education of your young gangsters, the easier this becomes.”

He had a habit of writing down all his thoughts...regardless, there you go. Good day gentlemen and gentle-ladies.

Looks around and is rather annoyed.

Now its ok for everyone to come out here and say all these great things about what we expect from made men. But, I know that only some of these people have actually fulfilled all of these things. Most just come out here and daydream talking about their wonderful dream world where everyone deserves their ranks. Most of you here don't put in the effort to actually be ready for Made Man, but you will still tell everyone what is needed to get Made. It really annoys me seeing this because it shows people knows what they have to do but they are too LAZY to actually do it!

Takes a drag of his cigar

My point was that a man may not know his own skill. He may rank up without ever firing a shot, without ever speaking in the street, without earning a great deal of money. My point is that once a man has all the qualities to become a made he then shouldn't have to provide proof of having a skill. Let's be honest a family head or their upper structure should be aware of any skill a man has before he reaches the point of Made, they should completely trust him and know him well and if they have watched closely they will be aware of any skills he may have used on his path to becoming a button man. It is not for the members upon being told they have their button to then come out and say "Oh by the way I make a mean roast dinner, oh and I'm a fairly decent jailbreaker too."

I said before every man has some kind of skill, some may not know what skills they posses, whether it's the power to be a great hitter, but they've never shot a single bullet, whether it be to stealthily pickpocket people, yet they've never tried mugging anyone. The truth is, the Gods blessed us all with a skill, some begin early honing these and learning new skills, others prefer the quiet life, making a buck here, a buck there and ranking up without ever really doing much. They are no lesser person, for they can be fiercely loyal and have every quality you look for in your family but the skills they posses have never been used.

You're right though Mr Assassin, it is not right for a man to knowingly withold a skill from his upper structure, but most don't expect to have to announce what skills they possess. However if this was introduced into our life, that in addition to having all the qualities of a MadeMan you must also have a skill, I think people might overlook certain qualities because of a mans skills. They may know of great and dedicated hitters in their family, but they may be disrespectful, yet they will promote them because of their skill, not their quality. You may also have a very hardworking earner, someone who has made you a lot of money in a short amount of time, if there were promoted the scale on which they could make money would increase greatly, yet they could be dishonourable, so some people may overlook qualities yet again in favour of a mans skills.

 Satine listens carefully to the words spoken here and stands to have a moment to speak.

Each of my anscestors were promoted fairly quickly as they came up in this world. They each displayed some type of quality or strength that thier boss had apparently liked. I do believe strongly in promoting people that you trust first and then skills later. However, one thing that my mother told me that I will carry in my mind as I move along is that she moved up so fast that when it came time to lead, she felt inadequate in serving her family. Wars came and she watched the ones around her die with no help from her, There wasn't time to teach her while bullets were flying. Loyalty to those who brought her there was not the issue, but her ability to hold her end of things due to lack of skill and knowledge was a downfall for her and the few that depended on her for help. So, I do feel that one does need to have some experience and strength in order to be a large supporting role in their family. Having this insight from my mother, I think that a person that has thier family's best interest at heart has a duty to decline an advancement that they know they are not prepared for. I will also say this one thing that I have noticed. There is a very fine balance that must be kept. You as a leader need to make sure that your members feel that they WILL eventually move up in the ranks if they put in the hard work. Promoting only your known faces and friends will surely cause people to look again at where thier loyalty lies if you follow that path only. Perhaps this issue is part of the problem that had spawned so many issues and wars lately. One the other hand, promoting only the skilled players with little regard to how dishonorable or crude they are will surely put you in a position of defending the wrong side of an arguement or facing a strong enemy that you built and that has knowledge of your own weaknesses. Balance is the key, I think.