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| The Road To The Top | Started by: Anthony_Scotto on Jan 26, '08 13:46 |
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Another way? I have spent some time lately reading the journals of my forebears, and some of their friends - my ancestors were not all great diarists. It strikes me as a recurring theme, which actually spreads right back into the old country, but for the purposes of our conversation I will keep to these shores, I am talking about the route to the top. From the first group of immigrants one man rose to the top of the heap, Evsie. He did this largely by killing anyone that got close to being a threat to him, his first rush after setting up saw him war almost all of the 'native' leaders, then most of the crop who set up around the same time, leaving only his trusted friend along side him gaining any sort of strength. Even leaving his friend along side him backfired, but that is a whole other conversation. This tactic continued until he had established a clear lead, and amassed a hit squad of such strength that he was all but unassailable. It worked, before the great blackout there was no question of his strength and superiority in almost all areas. After the first blackout there was carnage, everyone wanted to get to the top of the heap again, a slew of people set up, most to be gunned down within days, sometimes even hours. Again, one person rose steadily to the top, Anita. She too killed almost everyone around her until she was unassailable. She too allowed only her trusted friend Scotland to rank beside her, even to Godfather. This did not backfire this time. This tactic continued until she had established a clear lead, and amassed a hit squad of such strength that she was all but unassailable. It worked, before the great blackout there was no question of her strength and superiority in almost all areas. After the latest blackout there was carnage, everyone wanted to get to the top of the heap again, a slew of people set up, most to be gunned down within days, sometimes even hours. Again, one person rose steadily to the top, discoduck. He too killed almost everyone around him until she was unassailable. He too allowed a trusted friend to rank beside him. Again, a tactic that was to prove misguided, as his trusted friend shot and killed him, taking over the crown himself. He too set about killing anyone and everyone that could become a threat, until his recent suicide (for want of a better word); there was no question of his dominance. My question to you all is this: Is there another way? Is the only road to being called "the greatest" littered with the bodies of those you slew to get there? Alternatively, could there be another option? Perhaps one that involves public perception, or maybe even just knowing you are the strongest without feeling the need to prove it every week or so. Is it weakness to allow people to consider you 'nice'? Do we respect raw power these days more than we do personality, or street smarts? Are we doomed to repeat the cycle, looking to nothing more than raw power to decide things, or is there another way? |
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Hi Anthony, interesting article and one that I'd like to try to respond to. Killing is easy. Fact! The true 'greats' were loved, were helpful, were looking at the bigger picture. I'm afraid thats not exactly an answer, its just as I see it. BOING! |
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| Reply by: Zebedee at Jan 26, '08 13:53 | |
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After hearing your speech and question, I would first like to respond with yes...there are multiple different ways of reaching the top. Unfortunately, having said that, it is probably most effective to kill off anyone close to you in power. If you were to kill anyone that could possibly kill you, it would definately assure you that you would live and prosper. But if you were to lead through street presence and other such ways, you are always taking that chance that the next person in line doesn't wack you in strive for power. So are there different ways to making it to the top? Of course, but they are not always as easy as raw power. But then again, this is what makes it so impressive to lead without flexing your muscle. |
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| Reply by: HorrorKore at Jan 26, '08 14:02 | |
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Who wants to go to the top? We should all just support the old lineages by earning and protecting them. Know your role man. You're a pleb, just like the rest of us. Why would you even want to hope to achieve more? |
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| Reply by: MooCow at Jan 26, '08 14:15 | |
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HorrorKore listens to MooCow speak You must be sexually frustrated huh Moo? Just judging by your response... Gives Moo a little pat on the back and smiles |
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| Reply by: HorrorKore at Jan 26, '08 14:18 | |
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| If that's how you truly feel, Moo, go make a speech about it so it can be discussed openly. I'd like to keep this conversation on topic for a little longer please. | |
| Reply by: Anthony_Scotto at Jan 26, '08 14:28 | |
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Just to make a small correction here: Anita allowed several others to rank with her. I can name many who made it to Don during her reign. Seyarah, Toozaza, Scotland, Dimension, Mercedes, Silk (whoever she was when in NY with Sweetness, can't remember), and there are probably a bunch I am forgetting, and plenty others who were Consig (even some she knew would attack her). I say this not to defend the Boss of one of my ancestors, but to make an important point that we all MUST learn from. These "DiscoDuck tactics" have to stop. It's ridiculous. It has never been this bad until recently, and my bloodline has been around long enough to know. Power has always been achieved by working the hardest and surrounding yourself with the most talent, not by killing anyone else who got close to you. Wars (mostly) happened because a leader was shit or because a dispute arose which could not be settled another way. There were some brutal leaders of the past, but none of them ever took things to such an extreme that there was never anyone else the same rank as them. Continuing this trend will see these cities die. |
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| Reply by: TheWeasel at Jan 26, '08 14:33 | |
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I had hoped to stay away from specifics of whatever else they did while in positions of power, I would suggest (though my memory is admittedly a little hazy) that all of those were only allowed to rank once Anita had established herself... furthermore they were all taken out whenever they came close to being a threat, which pretty much reinforces my point. They all had positive sides too, I am not trying to run any of them down for applying these tactics, they all contributed something else to our experiences. I agree though, that of late it has been taken too far. We have lost sight of all other aspects of our way of life. Power is king, and woe betide anyone who doesn't like it. |
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| Reply by: Anthony_Scotto at Jan 26, '08 14:46 | |
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SecretAgent, Ruiner, Slartibartfast...a couple more Dons that popped into my mind. Fact is, Anita was established from the first day she set up. She took over a family from Black_Fog, who took over Piggeh's family, who were already the most powerful in the cities. It just doesn't have to be the way it has been for someone to succeed. I blame the cycles for changing the mentality of the average mafioso. During those short stretches, sure, more brutal tactics were appropriate, acceptable, and maybe even necessary. The reason so many cried out for the cycles to end was because they wanted to return to the stability that preceded it. Rather than doing that, we simply made it a six month "cycle". The fact tha |
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| Reply by: TheWeasel at Jan 26, '08 14:54 | |
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| I hate it when it does that. I was going to close by saying that the fact that in six months we have only had one Don is shameful. | |
| Reply by: TheWeasel at Jan 26, '08 14:55 | |
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One can try to base ones power on alliances, strong crew etc. However when push comes to shove, it seems that the crew wants the crewleader to be the protecter, be the one who they can see as their rock, as the one who will protect them against any threat. how can a crewleader do that if they are not the strongest? They cannot thumb their nose at the one who can kill them or take action that they know will provoke someone who can kill them. This fear and practical need to survive will always prevent them from being the Numero Uno... the one who calls the shots. |
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| Reply by: Volatile at Jan 26, '08 20:48 | |
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Trying to work WITH the current leaders is the only thing I can see as a way to the top, unfortunately killing those that HAVE the ability to take over your business, and killing those that WILL take over your business are two very separate things. A lot of people might claim paranoia as the reason for the latter of the two and thats probably true, but where is the line between paranoia and protecting your assets. Everyone wants to protect their family, but at what cost to those around you, other families that honestly have no ill will towards you and consider you a friend. Sometimes you just have to trust someone, and make the community better...together. Sorta mushy I guess, but whats wrong with rising to the top with someone rather than in spite of them? Dr. Lecter |
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| Reply by: Hannibal at Jan 26, '08 21:25 | |
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That's a very inetersting question Anthony, power is defined different by many people so a chance to get an answer is alsmost impossible as I see it. For myself I think it is possible to be the biggest fish in the pond without killing everyone off, but sometimes you have to kill. Being 'nice' can be considered as weak pretty fast. I would love to see a powerful Don without killing other powerful off and I also think it's better for the community to have several powerful so they can affect the community better and hopefully in a good way. To achieve something for a whole world you have to work together, but this is also the mafia and in ours world it is important for everyone to have some power... |
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| Reply by: SalvatoreLicata at Jan 27, '08 05:26 | |
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CP have made it to the top. They have killed everyone that could have remotely been a threat to them. I suspect they will kill some more, there's some decent people not-quite-trained-yet in their hit squads. Grandpa was a sage, a fucking sage I say. Why have I dragged this up from the gutter? First and foremost, because I like to wallow in my ancestors awesome rightness. More relevant, though, because I wanted to show the anti-CP crowd that it's nothing new. I can't help but wonder why everyone is so shocked and full of righteous indignation that they have taken out the opposition (whatever the spin) and now seek to consolidate that with some friendly auths. Seriously, put yourself in their shoes. Who would you allow to set up? Someone who openly and vocally hates you? Or someone with whom you can do business. Sure, the former is more fun, you get to watch all those who oppose you apart from 1 or 2 clever ones (MoneyRustler) join the opposition, then shoot them all in a few weeks when they start ranking up a bit. More likely though, people want a bit of stability - for a while at least. In order to provide that stability, you should probably auth people you aren't already thinking about shooting at the outset. Christ, my great (times 1230984230984) grandpa, Evsie made some fucking shocking auths, solely based on the fact that he didn't want to shoot them already and thought they were nice enough people - ability didn't even come into the decision making process. |
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| Reply by: BadDebt at Feb 25, '08 07:33 | |
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I really hate the way Anthony made Scotland seem like an innocent victim. Such a shame. Moving on, the road to the top was, is and always will be, paved with corpses. Nobody has risen to the top without killing or having others killed on their behalf. I thought this was common knowledge. I am sure that the identity and background of the victors is the issue, rather than how they've done it. Just as I'm fairly certain, when the CP era comes to an end, our streets and funerals will be filled with delighted people. Until, of course, our successors are in pole position and then we'll have the same outcry and hatred for them. |
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| Reply by: Numbers4Glory at Feb 25, '08 09:03 | |
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Meanwhile, I take off my hat to CP and offer them my respect for taking advantage of the opportunities that they had in front of them. It takes balls, guts and guile to position yourself at the top of the heap. In particular when you are a group of allies who have a long history of opposition and enemies who will do whatever they can to stand in your way. With one caveat that I have said before, I just wish those weak excuses for removing a crew that show up now and then would be replaced by a bold statement that said: I did what I did b/c I could and I wanted to do it |
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| Reply by: Rambo at Feb 25, '08 11:56 | |
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So, in other words, you want them to tell you what you want to hear rather than give a more insightful explanation of things that went on behind the scenes that the average gangster might know nothing about. Boring. I prefer the detailed explanation, even if it is propaganda. Think about it. The war is over, you're waiting for a statement from the victorious CL, and it finally comes. "I did it because I wanted to and I could...the end". That's pretty low on entertainment value. Then again, we've been dumbing things down for some time now. Why stop now? It doesn't matter what happens, there are always people who say the reasons are bullshit, but there are almost always reasons, even if they are misinformed or stupid reasons. In no family "inner circle" that I have been in, has there ever been a war just for the hell of it. |
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| Reply by: FlyingPig at Feb 25, '08 13:12 | |
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Not to mention how disrespectful to the fallen that explanation to me. At least CP took the high road with a more detailed reason...whether or not Rambo likes it. |
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| Reply by: Adebayor at Feb 25, '08 13:15 | |
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*would be...not to me. It's a speech impediment I have, apparently. |
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| Reply by: Adebayor at Feb 25, '08 13:16 | |
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the high road, if its pure BS, is much more insulting to the dead or anyone elses intelligence. and no FP, I did not mean such a short thing. You can go on and on about why you wanted to take someone down, the insults to you, the money that you hope to earn with the new turf and on and on... you can tell a good story without it being really transparent that its a cover story |
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| Reply by: Rambo at Feb 25, '08 13:46 | |
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