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Let's open a laundromat. You know. Started by: SimonLaurel on Mar 21, '19 18:26

Right, I've been thinking. (FYI: I'm aware that the following suggestion would take forever to implement let alone balance but give me a shot and tell me how this sounds) 



Currently, it seems like money is pretty 1 dimensional. You commit crimes, earn money and spend it on a bunch of stuff: Bodyguards, Drugs, Gambling... You get the picture. 



What if there was more to it than that? 



As we know, mafioso money is dirty and the "government" is on the look out for it. So I came up with an idea to make the money a bit more dynamic. 



It starts with the introduction of 2 separate "wallets" clean and dirty. 



Clean Money: Functions like the current currency we have. We spend it freely or stockpile it in a Federal/Savings account. 



Dirty Money: It would function the same way, however there would be some differences. Dirty money would not be storable in a Federal/Savings account and using the dirty money would result in a possible loss of the current dirty money balance and a trip to jail. With a CA you'd be able to keep a percentage of the dirty money balance. 



Now with the separation of the cleans and the dirties. You'd need somewhere to clean the dirties. 



As a solo player, you could purchase a shell company. This would allow you to deposit the dirty money and withdraw the clean money. Now the best way I can explain how this would work is with an example:




  • Player A commits crimes - Earns Dirty Money. 
  • Player A uses dirty money to buy shell company (Possibly have a chance to fail this and end up in jail) . 
  • Player A deposits rest of dirty money in the shell company. 
  • Shell company would clean the money at a certain rate: e.g: ~$1,000 per 2 minutes. Rate would increase with rank. 
  • Player A would withdraw the money and use it freely or stockpile the clean money in the shell company and receive small percentage based profit off the cash that is deposited.


The interest revenue could be added every 24 hours, on whichever amount is in there at the time. 



As we know, crews get tax money from crimes that are committed by their members. This would also be considered dirty money and would require cleaning but as a crew it would work differently. 



Crews would be able to purchase shell corporations (shell corp) . This would work in a similar way to the shell company but at a larger scale. (I'd imagine it would also be more expensive too.)



The crew leader would designate members to each shell corp for it to receive their taxes and begin converting it to clean money. Higher level shell corps could take higher incomes, which would allow for sorting members and applying a cap would promote the expansion of those shell corps. 



To keep the shell Corp I believe a system like the drug fronts would be optimal. A player manually resetting the timer for each individual shell corp. 



The shell corps would also generate percentage based interest profit on their balance depending on the clean money that is deposited. However, to increase the percentage: transactions between shell corps would have to be made. The higher the amount of daily transactions, the higher the percentage. These transactions include: tax received from players and transactions from other shell corps. These would be limited for balancing. Perhaps by capping the percentage or by having increased cool down between shell Corp transactions. This could be on the same 24 hour clock as the shell companies. 



The shell corps would make the transactions between themselves in order to hide the money. A Mob mail could be sent out saying that the Shell Corp was randomly audited. If the shell Corp wasn't emptied beforehand then it would get taken down. 



If the player has a CA, a notification could be sent out the day before:



"Your CA has discovered ShellCorpA is being audited tomorrow" that would be sent out at any point the day before. This would allow the person to prepare themselves so that the shell corp isn't taken down, only inactive for 24 hours. 



If money enters the Shell Corp during the audit day: the shell Corp is taken down. So the player would also have to redirect the taxes from the crew members away from the Shell corps. Making sure that the other shell corps would be able to handle the increased revenue or the crew would be losing out on taxes. (Crew member would still have the taxes taken off but they just wouldn't reach the shell Corp. ) 



Now, you'll notice I refer to the person as player and not crew leader. I also have another idea. Adding a new supplement title: Accountant. 



This title would work like the sponsor tag, however only one player per crew could be set as an accountant. Crews could also hire players from allied crews to be their accountant while not having to change crews. However I believe it should be city-locked to prevent monopoly. 



The responsibilities of an Accountant would be to ensure the smooth operating of the shell corps in the crew. Only a crew leader can change the Accountant, but if not set to himself: he wouldn't have the ability to perform transactions. 



BEWARE: The accountant would be able to withdraw money into his personal account. What's life without a bit of danger? It would also take into account Rogue gameplay. I've seen people request more representation. I think this is fair and somewhat realistic.



All of the above would require a ledger system. Noting down each transaction that is made for each shell Corp that is purchased by the crew. This would be where the crew leader and upper structure would be able to keep an eye on the operation. 



That's my idea. I know it would be a lot to add but I think it adds an interesting dynamic to the game. I look forward to hearing from you guys and if you have any ideas for modifications, please post them. I'd love to give them a read :D 

 

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EDIT: I thought further about suggestion and after reading a couple more suggestions I made a few connections on ways to make it better. 

Using this system, the shell corps could be used as companies to create a stock market. Where their stock value is based on the company income compared to others. Higher income = Higher stock price. This stock price could then be used to define the interest percentage that the company is receiving. That way it makes it easier to create a stock market that is dependant on the community. If a crew is wiped: their company is gone and another has the opportunity to take over top stop and take the higher interest rates. War should always be money motivated. Allowing crew leader to pick shell Corp names would be interesting. 

In more detail, I believe that this would work nicely because of the fact a shell corps main revenue is from Crew tax. The stock price fluctuation would be determined by the performance of the crew members that were assigned to that shell corp. If the players were active, they'll pay more taxes. If one takes a holiday, it'll be up to the Accountant to rearrange the layout to compensate and keep the stock price stable. 

I also apologise for not adding a pro/con list. I feel that this in itself doesn't have any major drawbacks. If you think of any: please tell me. 

P. S. - I did think of Insider trading as a con but its a Mafia game, Ofcourse there will be insider trading... 

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Its a nice Idea but the hardcore role play people we not let it happen

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In all honesty I don't think it influences the RPers very much if at all.

Here's why:

If they're crew leaders - They can appoint an Accountant to take care of that for them.
If they're crew members - The shell companies don't require that much interaction, it would be like any other timer.

So realistically, who ever doesn't want to do it - wouldn't need to do it. Same as Drug Fronts, they exist and they are incredibly useful. Yet, most of MR plays without them and survives just fine.

I see it as a similar concept.
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i like the Idea Now I have a question you said city lock do you mean they have to be from the same city or can they travel to that city and get their money clean

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That's a good question. Originally when I posted I ment they'd have to be local, so:
Me, as a Associate of Praxis in L.A. would only be able to manage L.A. Accounts.
But by opening it up and requiring travel would make management a lot more complex. They'd need to take into account travel times for Audit clearing and general management.
Since it wouldn't be very efficient, I'd go with the original idea. But it would be a case of balancing with the existing game and what the admin think is best for the current build. Obviously that's referring to shell corporations

If you're referring to shell companies, I'd say they'd be able to get the money anywhere, like the banking system works.
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Before pointing out the various flaws in your design, I'd like to recognize the effort behind your post, as it's not just another "make stock exchange" or "give me a house".

 

Also, I really enjoy the Accountant position idea and I'm fairly certain this has been proposed in the past, but I am too lazy to look up the thread(s).

 

Now, let's go down the list:

 

Clean/Dirty Money:

Clean Money: Functions like the current currency we have. We spend it freely or stockpile it in a Federal/Savings account. 

 

Dirty Money: It would function the same way, however there would be some differences. Dirty money would not be storable in a Federal/Savings account and using the dirty money would result in a possible loss of the current dirty money balance and a trip to jail. With a CA you'd be able to keep a percentage of the dirty money balance. 

The cash we currently have is only used for "dirty" purposes such as buying narcotic substances, renting private aircraft, hiring protection, paying bribes, posting hit rewards etc. The only "legal" activity I can think of is paying to train at the gun range, gambling (questionable), or, and I'm probably stretching it a lot, tipping someone for their post. 

With that in mind, I cannot say I see any justification for the existence of "Clean Money" and it would be ridiculous to get busted for using dirty money for illegal activities instead of getting busted for taking part in said activities, which is already a thing (cops will occasionally send you in jail when trying to buy/sell drugs).

 

Money Laundering Companies making profit off of clean money deposits:

Player A would withdraw the money and use it freely or stockpile the clean money in the shell company and receive small percentage based profit off the cash that is deposited.

The shell corps would also generate percentage based interest profit on their balance depending on the clean money that is deposited. However, to increase the percentage: transactions between shell corps would have to be made. The higher the amount of daily transactions, the higher the percentage. These transactions include: tax received from players and transactions from other shell corps.

To (over)simplify money laundering:

A "legit" business provides a service that customers pay for.

A money laundering business provides little or no actual service and presents dirty money as income from non existent sources.

That income then gets taxed and becomes "clean" as it is supposedly the product of legal business activity.

This basically means that laundering money leaves you with significantly less clean money than the dirty capital you initially "deposited", because the taxman gets his cut.

Money laundering businesses make exorbitant amounts of profit in the books but the actual money that comes out is way less than the money that goes in.

Also, transactions between money laundering businesses would just push the "clean money" back and forth and not generate any gain whatsoever, unless we're talking about tax avoidance tactics, which  a) defeats the whole purpose of cleaning money, since the best way to avoid tax is keeping your dirty dirty cash and b) enters the field of white collar crime, which is a long long way away from stealing purses and robbing post offices.

Audits:

A Mob mail could be sent out saying that the Shell Corp was randomly audited. If the shell Corp wasn't emptied beforehand then it would get taken down. 

If the player has a CA, a notification could be sent out the day before:

 

"Your CA has discovered ShellCorpA is being audited tomorrow" that would be sent out at any point the day before.

There is no real connection between having an empty bank account and successfully passing an audit. The taxman is firstly looking for inconsistencies in the business logs and books, which means that the business will fail the audit even with a bank account balance of 0 (to be more accurate, a bank account of 0 would be most telling that there's something fishy going on).

Also, the CAs currently in game are just policemen, which means they are completely unrelated to the tax authority investigations. A more plausible way of surviving an audit would be to bribe the tax inspectors or someone similar, which is pretty much what happens with DFPs.

 

Accountant:

The mafia accountant stereotype is usually that of a civilian with formal education and not that of a poor immigrant that just got off the boat and started robbing people and small businesses to get the local crime syndicate's attention. I'm sure that there must have been at least a few violent ones that carried guns and killed people, but it was certainly not the norm for them to be involved in violent crimes. That being said, I think the RP part of bloodthirsty murderers and drug dealers keeping the family's books could be worked through (ignored) in favor of creating a new position which provides some sort of financial benefit for the whole crew and maybe some sort of financial problems in case of death, but this would be more appropriately addressed in its own suggestion thread.

 

Additional rant: 

The term "company" includes many types of legal entities. Corporations are one of those types. The distinction between shell companies and shell corporations is therefore an inappropriate use of those words.

 

 

P.S.: I hope you don't see this post as me trashing your idea. In fact, I found it quite interesting and that's why I decided to type out a wall of text.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to write the reply and with BendOver being your name: it really brought me a chuckle.

Now if I may, I'd like to offer a rebuttal:

First of all, I made the distinction shell companies and shell corporations so they'd be identified and imagined for scale purposes: as people tend to imagine a company as small entities and corporations as bigger when applied side by side. I didn't mean anything deeper than that by it. Since I lack a better name for these "things", I'm happy to take suggestions.

 

Clean Money vs. Dirty Money:

I understand what you are saying and to a certain point, I agree with it. This is why in my Edit, I suggested a stock exchange (I realize it's a duplicate of another suggestion but I put it on here since I thought relevant and it had a purpose) be added and would be an interesting way of investing the clean money: making it relevant.

As for getting busted: It could be argued you'd get busted for doing the activities - only they got you by following the "dirty" money. It already being a thing is a reason why I brought it up, possibly increasing odds for a bust.

It's a stretch but a reasonable possibility in my opinion.

Also: For Hit Rewards I think using clean money would be a reasonable reason to get caught.

 

Money laundering process:

I understand that and it does seem to be a bit of a hole in the realism of the suggestion. After reading your post I actually feel inclined to agree with you.

Given that: I present a amendment (Not sure if this is allowed or not but here goes):

A corporation would clean money the following way - A Crew Leader's corp gets dirty money from Member taxes that day.

Accountants would move the money between the corporations in the form of "Expenses". This as mentioned in the OP could be capped for balance.

This would create Income and Expenses which could be used to calculate the difference.

If the Income > Expenses, that difference is taxed at 50%.

 

If the Income < Expenses, that difference would be paid back to the Crew Leader in the form of a Tax Return.

Crew leader would pay his taxes on the money to get it cleaned:

 

  • Difference would be worked out.
  • 50% of remainder would go to the Godfather
  • Remainder gets converted to clean money.

The Godfather would then receive this money and put it into his own corporation and it would then move to the Godfather Chairman and so on.

This is taking the tax system that is currently in place and also adds to the realism.

I did over simplify the percentages since it would have to balance to the current economy. As this would have an effect on the $ value with a very likely inflation.

For shell companies, I can't think of a way to do it in all honesty. So: I think a possible solution could be for a member to get their money cleaned, they'd need to send it off to the crew leader and get clean money in return.

This could create a buy/sell rate for clean money and the economy could end up balancing itself with enough time. (Does not mean by any chance that balancing is not required)

 

Audits:

That is correct. I agree with you at the exception that CAs being just policeman. As their name suggests they are Corrupt Agents, so I believe that it would be better compared to the FBI. I don't know the powers of the FBI so I won't argue.

I'll also present an amendment for this:

You have to pay your taxes every 24/48 hours (depending on how the transactions are capped) otherwise the company will be shut and the money in it would be lost.

That's pretty much all I have for this but I feel it sufficient for what it is and seems more realistic. Obviously to get it to real life standards it would have to be at the end of the tax year. (In the case of the U.K. would be 6th of April to the 5th of April the following year)

I feel that would be too long a time for taxes being paid as from what I've seen not many characters actually last more than 100 days let alone 365+.

 

Accountant:

I do understand where you're coming from: However, as for formal education: it's as simple as knowing the game mechanic and saying: My character is fresh out of university after studying Accountancy. What you are discussing is a matter of Role-Playing and character backstory. Not quite relevant, in my opinion.

I appreciate the points you raised.

Players should be able to advance the jobs they do. A Consigliere wouldn't steal a purse, however, the option is still there in-game. If you decide to take the purse at that rank there is no difference from stealing it as a Thug or Gangster.

I think if we were to limit who could do white collar crimes: either by rank, units, etc. we'd have to re-evaluate all other crimes in the game. As a Godfather, realistically, wouldn't participate in raiding a trucking depot, at least not directly.

 

I believe it's a fun new dynamic to the game, which as you pointed out has it's quirks but with consideration we could develop it into something quite real.

 

I look forward to a reply!

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